Deflection useful?

As the future of the game progresses Predator will keep being the #1
tool used by most of the top pros and top ameteurs.I believe everyone
has there own tastes but I wish I would of started playing from the beginning with a Predator,just makes the game that much easier(for me):smile:I'm sure a small amount of deflection is useful but I feel that most
of the game of 9ball and 10ball is better with the least amount as possible.
 
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I played with LD shafts first then changed to non-LD shafts, the LD shafts just DO NOT feel natural to me, the hit, the feedback, the physical squirt are not true to my hand and my mind. I assume that it was because I do not have time to get used to that unnatural LD. When I switched to non-LD, I jumped right in and need no time to get used to, shafts are just so natural to me.

Some LD shaft pros tell me because I am more of an instinct player than a trained player that I like the natural non-LD's. they say that it is easier to aim with LD shafts but I dont think so, the non-LD shafts are more consistent to me.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Fred Agnir pointed out ... when the cue ball is close to the object ball and you use inside side spin to avoid the double hit. The higher squirt helps get the cue ball out of the way of the stick coming through.
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I'm willing to be unconvinced of this, but it seems to me that at such close quarters the differences in CB path and required cue angle would be minimal from one stick to another.

Another thing I've wondered is whether it might be useful to match the shaft's squirt with the average amount of swerve a player generates within his "comfort range" of shot distances/speeds - so they tend to about cancel each other out. I think I recall that idea was also from Fred's fertile mind some years ago...

pj
chgo
 
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BigDaddyInc. said:
Im not looking to bash ld shafts just a question. Does anyone besides me find that deflection of the cue shaft can be kinda useful after you get used to it? I been playing with the same cue for years and it is not an ld shaft. Just a standard mcdermott shaft. I tried a predator yrs ago and just could not get the hang of it at all the hit was so stiff and flat.

My standard shaft is springy and lively now when the cueball squirts or deflects to the left when using right hand english in my mind it comes at the object ball at a slight angle and in my mind that gives me more oppurtunity to create more angle on a shot if need be.

But with an ld shaft supposedly if i use right hand english i shouldnt have to compensate so therfore the cb is coming straight at the object ball and all i have to get me where i want to go is the english to where as i could create a little more angle with the use of squirt or deflection. Basically with a standard shaft left or right hand english creates a light masse which is a curve and i believe this curve gives me more options on certain shots.

Does this make any sense to anyone? Or am i over anilyzing? I want to figure this out because i would honesly like to purchase a ld shaft like an I-shaft only because of the consistancy and the ld shafts have a better chance of not warping. I wish i could get the qualities of an LD shaft without the LD if that makes any sense.
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What you can do with a regular shaft i can do with a ld shaft but with less guess work.:wink:Why make the game harder than what it is.
 
Over the last several years I've had the opportunity to talk to several players who purchased an LD cue shaft, tried it, and couldn't get used to it.

Many of them were willing to talk about it, and be open and honest. I found, that with most of them, there were some very common perceptions. Most felt that they had to do something different to aim with an LD cue shaft, and that they just never could get it right. So, they went back to their original shaft where they didn't have to do anything special to aim, they just looked at the object ball and where they wanted to hit it. I was surprised by this because I do exactly what they do, only with the LD cue shafts.

The problem is that they were trying to re-invent the wheel.

I asked them to remember back when they had played with a cue for a long time, and finally had to replace one of the cue shafts. Typically, this was a cue they bought with 2 identical shafts, and they had just played with one for years. I asked if they played equally as well with the second shaft as they had with the first. Most all said that they originally thought that both shafts were the same, but they must have been mistaken because when they pulled out the second shaft, that had been in their case for 10 years, they had trouble making balls. Anytime they used side spin, they would miss. I asked if they new why, and what they did about it. They didn't know why, and they just played with the second shaft until they got used to it, and things were back to normal.

What they didn't realize is that the squirt of the first shaft was reduced by all the sanding, and tip replacements making it substantially smaller. Smaller, and reduced squirt! The reason they had trouble switching to their backup shaft is because the squirt was different. Their brains had adjusted to the original shaft and adjusted over time as the shaft changed.

The important part is that all they did to adjust was to play with it. They didn't do any mental gymnastics trying to figure out how to aim. If they were hitting a little thick, they aimed thinner. After a short while, their brain adjusted to the new cue shaft.

I asked most of them to try the same thing with that LD shaft they bought. Go play with it, but don't try to change the aim because it's an LD shaft. Just let your mind do the adjustment. I'm glad to say that I've more than a couple come back to me and tell me that it worked. They now play with LD, and they now truly seed the benefits. They don't do any mental gymnastics, and they are more comfortable on tough shots with side spin.

After all, confidence is king!
 
BigDaddyInc. said:
Im not looking to bash ld shafts just a question. Does anyone besides me find that deflection of the cue shaft can be kinda useful after you get used to it? I been playing with the same cue for years and it is not an ld shaft. Just a standard mcdermott shaft. I tried a predator yrs ago and just could not get the hang of it at all the hit was so stiff and flat.

My standard shaft is springy and lively now when the cueball squirts or deflects to the left when using right hand english in my mind it comes at the object ball at a slight angle and in my mind that gives me more oppurtunity to create more angle on a shot if need be.

But with an ld shaft supposedly if i use right hand english i shouldnt have to compensate so therfore the cb is coming straight at the object ball and all i have to get me where i want to go is the english to where as i could create a little more angle with the use of squirt or deflection. Basically with a standard shaft left or right hand english creates a light masse which is a curve and i believe this curve gives me more options on certain shots.

Does this make any sense to anyone? Or am i over anilyzing? I want to figure this out because i would honesly like to purchase a ld shaft like an I-shaft only because of the consistancy and the ld shafts have a better chance of not warping. I wish i could get the qualities of an LD shaft without the LD if that makes any sense.
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I think you are making a very good point here and the way you have broken it down it is also pretty easy to understand. I also agree that
there is no reason to bash those who choose to use an LD Shaft or Cue. One thing I find interesting is that many of records in most pool disciplines have been set without the use of low deflection shafts. I have always believed that cues and shafts are nothing more than tools, and that the ability of the player will trump individual equipment any day of the week.

I have to be honest, I have always used standard non-low deflection shafts all my life. Now I know that based upon many factors I am never going to play at a professional level. So in my opinion I have no reason to make changes to my game that at least for awhile will make it worst than it already is!!!!!:)

With that said I think LD Shafts are great for young players who aspire to play at a Pro-level some day. This equipment may give them an edge if they start using it during their learning phase. However, I am still some one who believes that great players will still be great players no matter what they use to play pool with, so I guess I still believe that LD or Non-LD will have little effect on an average players game long term.
 
genomachino said:
That's pretty obvious..................it wasn't available then......if it was I'll bet he used one for sure.

And he did worry about deflection. If he didn't he would have missed alot.

With a LD shaft you still have to worry about it. Just not as much as in less.

Lower level players might not even know the difference as they don't even know why they miss. Once they learn exactly how it works they can adjust their aim resulting in less missed shots.
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I won't claim to know what went on in Mosconi's mind, but "worried" he was not. But that is not the point. Mosconi didn't play with a predator when he ran his 526. However, if you give a pro any cue that's foreign to the cue he normally plays with, he'll figure it out in 2 weeks and probably less.
 
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Patrick Johnson said:
It may be a matter of degree. There are clearly real and significant differences between high-squirt and low-squirt shafts, but maybe not so much between medium-high and medium-low. More shafts call themselves LD now than really deserve to.

I think psychology can work both ways: it can make you see differences that aren't there and miss differences that are there.

I agree there's nothing you can do with one shaft that you can't do with the other.

pj
chgo
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PJ is exactly correct about so called ld shafts some are not so much. As for the difference being slight i can tell you that from a shon shaft to a predator z on a 3/4 table frozen ball rail first with inside ther is a 2 inch difference in the aim spot between these shafts. Pt took me almost 3 months to adjust after switching to preator but now i wou;d never go back i love being able to go get another z and have an almost identical shaft if i ever have to.
Monty
 
LD shafts opened up a whole new world.......

BigDaddyInc. said:
Im not looking to bash ld shafts just a question. Does anyone besides me find that deflection of the cue shaft can be kinda useful after you get used to it? I been playing with the same cue for years and it is not an ld shaft. Just a standard mcdermott shaft. I tried a predator yrs ago and just could not get the hang of it at all the hit was so stiff and flat.

My standard shaft is springy and lively now when the cueball squirts or deflects to the left when using right hand english in my mind it comes at the object ball at a slight angle and in my mind that gives me more oppurtunity to create more angle on a shot if need be.

But with an ld shaft supposedly if i use right hand english i shouldnt have to compensate so therfore the cb is coming straight at the object ball and all i have to get me where i want to go is the english to where as i could create a little more angle with the use of squirt or deflection. Basically with a standard shaft left or right hand english creates a light masse which is a curve and i believe this curve gives me more options on certain shots.

Does this make any sense to anyone? Or am i over anilyzing? I want to figure this out because i would honesly like to purchase a ld shaft like an I-shaft only because of the consistancy and the ld shafts have a better chance of not warping. I wish i could get the qualities of an LD shaft without the LD if that makes any sense.
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Back in the 70's 80's and 90's I won an awful lot of bar table tournaments. In fact I expected to win. One of the reasons for my success was not only did I adjust well for the squirt and flex of the shaft and the cue ball but my opponents were terrible at it.

I quit playing in 1999. When I started again in 2008 I couldn't believe how much better everyone shot. These young guys were just rifling those balls in.

It wasn't until about 8 months ago I said, Hey wait a second. Could there really be something to these LD shafts. The guys I knew that used them swore by them.

I bought one and got some instructions on how to use the darn thing. The next day I won a tournament.

Now i still shot pretty good with the old maple shafts that I had but now I don't even keep them with me. I couldn't tell you where they are even. If I ever sell the cue I have 5 shafts and they all play different. That's another problem with them. Inconsistent from one to the next.

The only thing I like about an old fashioned, and i say old fashioned maple shaft now is when my opponent is using one and he needs to put a whole bunch of inside English on a shot. I almost always know i'm going to get another shot. My opponent is very liable to miss.

That's the only advantage the old maple shaft has for me. :rolleyes::grin:

Once you get good instruction on how to play with an LD shaft it's pretty amazing. Not all LD shafts are equal though. I play with a 314-2 predator. Plays pretty sporty and consistent.
 
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Ever notice how many shafts Mosconi's Balabushka has? I think it's at least 5. With shafts, you know what you know, you have a favorite, then have to adjust with a change in shaft. Same for LD. I got a Gulyassy SPTX about 7 months ago, won't go back until I have to. I can still shoot with my standard shafts...although to be fair, the SPTX isn't really a "LD" shaft, it's more of a standard shaft with the LD properties of an older Predator. Still has the standard shaft "feel".

I always seem to get better action with stock shafts, too, and masse/wrinkle shots are a lot easier to pull off reliably for me with stock shafts. If Willie Mosconi had LD shafts around when he was starting out, he'd have used them...if you showed him a Predator in 1965, I doubt he'd spend more than 5 minutes with it, I don't believe he would have liked the change in feedback/feel. Drilling pockets wasn't a problem for him, adjusting to table conditions and precise touch were what he strived for--like all Straight Pool players.
 
Would a shaft like the McDermott G-core be a happy medium between LD shafts like the I2, OB1 and 314 2nd generation, and the McDermott non-LD shafts? If does have a low deflection ferrule, and some radial consistency properties, but I think those are mainly in the front 8 inches of the shaft. So you have (I think) a solid shaft PLUS some LD features; presumably between a solid shaft and a pie-cut laminated LD shaft.

I ask this for two reasons: 1) because I think it speaks to your comments; and 2) because I am very seriously considering buying a G-core shaft (after having only used solid shafts thus far).

What do you think?
 
Lou Bones said:
Would a shaft like the McDermott G-core be a happy medium between LD shafts like the I2, OB1 and 314 2nd generation, and the McDermott non-LD shafts? If does have a low deflection ferrule, and some radial consistency properties, but I think those are mainly in the front 8 inches of the shaft. So you have (I think) a solid shaft PLUS some LD features; presumably between a solid shaft and a pie-cut laminated LD shaft.

I ask this for two reasons: 1) because I think it speaks to your comments; and 2) because I am very seriously considering buying a G-core shaft (after having only used solid shafts thus far).

What do you think?
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I concur.

I shoot with the Predator Z2. I got a G-Core at a good price, but I found it to be more like a non-LD shaft. I believe that the segmented construction should prevent warping and answers the mail of this thread.
:smile:
 
i found the same think.........

LAMas said:
I concur.

I shoot with the Predator Z2. I got a G-Core at a good price, but I found it to be more like a non-LD shaft. I believe that the segmented construction should prevent warping and answers the mail of this thread.
:smile:
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it's like a fake LD shaft.. When they made it who ever did it didn't quite get it right if they were trying to make it play like other LD shafts.

Don't waste your money.

Nothing against McDermott but they really blew it with the Gcore.

Maybe the idea was to make an LD shaft that players with regular maple shafts won't have any trouble adjusting to it because it plays just like their old shaft.

now that would be ingenious marketing but not good in the long run........

it plays just like the old maple shaft.

The reason i know is i tried one that a guy had in Waukesha. I gave him an aiming lesson and once I got him shooting with my 314-2 he was making everything.

He thought he really had a low deflection shaft.

Ingenious on McDermotts part though. He bought it and he thought he liked it until he used the real deal.

How Funny....:rotflmao1::rotflmao::clapping:
 
Was watching a Thorsten Hohmann match. For potting a masse shot, he grabbed another cue. Afterwards, he went back to his playing cue. The commentator mentioned that Thorsten likely used a high-squirt cue for the masse, then changed back to his LD shaft cue.
 
Pacecar said:
Was watching a Thorsten Hohmann match. For potting a masse shot, he grabbed another cue. Afterwards, he went back to his playing cue. The commentator mentioned that Thorsten likely used a high-squirt cue for the masse, then changed back to his LD shaft cue.
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If so, that would be a personal preference - he could have simply aimed a little more to the side to mimic the squirt (more reliably).

Squirt has no objective benefit that I know of.

pj
chgo
 
Pacecar said:
Was watching a Thorsten Hohmann match. For potting a masse shot, he grabbed another cue. Afterwards, he went back to his playing cue. The commentator mentioned that Thorsten likely used a high-squirt cue for the masse, then changed back to his LD shaft cue.
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Many people prefer a stiffer shaft with a larger diameter and softer tip for masse shots; but as you point out, this is a personal preference.

Regards,
Dave
 
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