Teacherman said:
What commitment?
What does a player owe you?
You are a room owner. That is all.
You charge for table time and the player plays and pays.
What is "the right thing"?
DELETED POST?!?! Mike Janis & Viking Cue tour????
- Thread starter watchez
- Start date
What commitment?
What does a player owe you?
You are a room owner. That is all.
You charge for table time and the player plays and pays.
What is "the right thing"?
chefjeff said:
Jeff
There is a huge difference between the spending habits of league type pool players versus tournament type pool players. We can host a league playoff tournament and do quite well. Of course, there are usually many more people at a league event. But, beyond that, the majority of league players are "here for the beer" more so than for the competition. The league type player isn't trying to make a living from pool as are so many of the tour type players. The spending habits are completely on opposite ends of the scale. Also, the league player has much more discretionary income even though the tournament player may have $10,000 in his pocket.
As for our food, we are known for a great burger, chicken sandwich type menu. Sandwich, fries and a soda for $5.50. Beers are $2.50, standard price in our area.
Ask anyone...............this isn't about the quality of the pool room or the service. Not that we are perfect. But, we do a good job.
BazookaJoe said:
Are you my stand up guy. I couldn't ask for a better idiot to demonstrate my points. Thank you.
Teacherman said:
Listen you silly little prick,
You have yet to give a valid answer to anyone's question.
Can you do it just this once?
What is the right thing?
Why would anyone owe you anything for having a profitable business?
Teacherman said:
Teacherman, as usual you have twisted things to your perspective and have failed to do your homework. I actually thought you would spend the night studying for todays war of the words. I will try to clear up any misconceptions you have or have implied as simply as I can.
Regarding the event entry fees. There is nothing hiding in our event entry fees. Everything is stated on all of our emails and flyers regarding upcoming events on the Viking Tour. It woll only take a minute to go and research this. There is absolutely nothing hidden.
Regarding Calcutta's. We do not have Calcutta's at Viking Tour events. Again, this could have been easily researched on Google. However, we do have Player Auctions which by defination is a seperate prize fund with entry fees that are based upon a players ability as determined by their peers. And yes, we do charge a 10% fee for organizing this. Also, as all aware pool fans know this is the standard fee as charged by most professional TD's.
Regarding proprietary information. Your earlier questions to me were regarding how I got paid not what tournament fees are and again I'll tell you it is proprietary information. More specifically, you wanted me to post if I got paid by pool rooms, sponsors or anything else and that information is absolutely not up for discussion. As I stated in "event entry fees" everything is spelled out as much as legally possible. It describes everything to the players that will attend an event.
While I have the opportunity I would also like to let you and everyone else know that the Viking Tour has some of the lowest fees in the country to our players and room owners as compared to other tours of this kind. Our entry fees are only $35 and our tour card is only $20. Other tours fees are more than double than that of ours. It is one of the things that makes our events so popular. Another benefit that we offer to our players is our National Championship. Our National Championship which is a $25,000 guaranteed money event is open to any player that competes in any one of our events. This is a huge benefit because many other tours either don't have something like this or they require you to play in many of there events to be able to compete in theirs.
In addition I would also like to let you know that I will most likely be unable to respond to any more of your posts. This is due to the fact that I own 6 other companies besides the Viking Cue 9-Ball Tour and those are were I really make my money. Oh, and I have to leave to get to the events down South. I hope to see everyone there.
Humbly yours,
Mike Janis
Owner/Founder - The Viking Cue 9-Ball Tour
MikeJanis said:
How many companies does it take to put you over the limit. I just opened a new business yesterday but I'm still posting. Did you open something overnight? Did it put you over the limit? You had 6 companies yesterday and posted all day. You have 6 companies today and you can't post anymore????
Or are you just full of shit.........or better yet "out of shit".
And, no matter what Mr. Janis says, I challenge you to "do the math" at any of the touranments you attend. IMHO, the td gets a free pass when it comes to players complaints about costs. The most popular complaint among players in our area is not the entry fee but the "quarters" or table time. The td's like to pass that on to the room owner. Of course, the room owner is the guy with the rent and overhead. He's also the guy who added the money even though the money never got from the td's hands to the prize fund. Whether you call it added money or not the owner paid it and he should be able to recoup his investment.
Next tournament you go to, ask the td how he gets paid and how the system works. Put some pressure on him. See how evasive he can become. In fact, make it your goal to make him evasive. That is where the pressure should be. Tell him if he didn't take from the prize fund that maybe the quarters wouldn't be necessary.
I'm curious how they respond.
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Teacherman said:
Thanks for the reply, Teacherman.
Let me ask you this...What would have to happen for tournament players to buy enough from you that you make some profit? If they're not going to eat or drink enough, is there some other way to make some dough? For example, could you charge $10 more for the tourney and then provide a $10 coupon for food and drink? If the tight players who don't eat don't use the coupon, you win. And the rest, who would buy the food anyway, would use their coupons and you'd make your normal profit.
I'm not in your biz and would never be, but it seems that something could be done to make it work for you, the td, and the players....oh, and for the game itself.
Jeff Livingston
chefjeff said:
This guy has no interest in anyone doing business in his place but him.
Period.
That is why he only has an in-house league and his tournaments were poorly put on by himself.
chefjeff said:
The thought of charging an entry fee that included lunch or dinner has crossed my mind many times. But, my gut feeling is when the entry fee goes from $35 to $45 you lose players. They are that cheap. Even though they get something for it.
Entry fees for these types of tournaments used to be $75. They lowered them to entice the local players who may not have a chance to win but like pool to enter. Generally it has worked. They get a 64 man field or larger regularly around here, although there is the occasional 30 player tournament.
Did you read my proposal a few pages back? It's perfect for the room owner. I think it should be doable. I'll add money if I can get it back with quarters. Or very close. If not, I have no chance to get it back with bar ring. If I can get it back with quarters, the bar ring is my profit for the day. And, it won't be much. If we do a normal $200 from noon to 6 on a Saturday we might ring $500-$600 with a 64 man field. They just don't spend at the bar in a tour type tournament. The spectators might. They players don't.
MikeJanis said:
We all know you're important Mike. You've told us several times. Now, please go to your meetings.
BTW, I think the posters are smart enough to realize you don't address the money concerns and they see your attempts at changing the subject away from the tough issues that have to be solved for these tours to work.
Teacherman said:
I had chosen to ignore any of Teacherman's posts. But using obscenities and accusing people of using drugs when you have no proof. Hopefully Mike H will see this and take action. I would hate to lose Mike Janis as a poster here. He is an upstanding person, and his tournament reports keep us all informed on Viking Events.
Teach, this proves what an ignorant, arrogant, gutless person that you are.
Mike
Teacherman said:
If you are truly interested in how a tournament runs on the Viking Tour, or any regional tour for that matter, call the tournament directors and make your inquiries and/or voice your concern(s).
If there's anyone full of shit on this thread, it is YOU!
Anybody who thinks Teacherman is interested in a Viking Tour event must have their eyes painted on! It is quite evident he's on a mission to destroy Mike Janis' good name, to include the Viking Tour.
Can't ruin excellence, Pal, but you are doing a really good job on making a name for yourself on AzBilliards Discussion Forum. Happy posting, and thanks for looking! Was that nicey-nicey enough for you?
JAM
T
Timberly
Guest
I meant it the way that I said it. I was also making light of something on an otherwise asinine thread. Let me explain my reasoning here... I used to play pool, and I played pretty good. I can't play at all anymore, hence the reason I said what I said... I resemble not being able to play better than a girl.Celtic said:
Ad-hominem, slander, libel and malice toward virtually everyone.
Sounds like Teacherman's menu dujour.
Bon appetit.
Sounds like Teacherman's menu dujour.
Bon appetit.
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Teacherman said:
Richard/Teacherman, It appears that you have a reading comprehension problem so I will re-post my earlier message for you. Please read it over 9 or 10 times until you get it. Oh, and here is a link to one of our event advertisements that was posted on 4/21/05 way before yur BS started.
http://www.azbilliards.com/vbulletin/upload/showthread.php?t=12223
Note how the fees are spelled out in detail for everyone.
Copy of earlier post below - - - - -
Teacherman, as usual you have twisted things to your perspective and have failed to do your homework. I actually thought you would spend the night studying for todays war of the words. I will try to clear up any misconceptions you have or have implied as simply as I can.
Regarding the event entry fees. There is nothing hiding in our event entry fees. Everything is stated on all of our emails and flyers regarding upcoming events on the Viking Tour. It woll only take a minute to go and research this. There is absolutely nothing hidden.
Regarding Calcutta's. We do not have Calcutta's at Viking Tour events. Again, this could have been easily researched on Google. However, we do have Player Auctions which by defination is a seperate prize fund with entry fees that are based upon a players ability as determined by their peers. And yes, we do charge a 10% fee for organizing this. Also, as all aware pool fans know this is the standard fee as charged by most professional TD's.
Regarding proprietary information. Your earlier questions to me were regarding how I got paid not what tournament fees are and again I'll tell you it is proprietary information. More specifically, you wanted me to post if I got paid by pool rooms, sponsors or anything else and that information is absolutely not up for discussion. As I stated in "event entry fees" everything is spelled out as much as legally possible. It describes everything to the players that will attend an event.
While I have the opportunity I would also like to let you and everyone else know that the Viking Tour has some of the lowest fees in the country to our players and room owners as compared to other tours of this kind. Our entry fees are only $35 and our tour card is only $20. Other tours fees are more than double than that of ours. It is one of the things that makes our events so popular. Another benefit that we offer to our players is our National Championship. Our National Championship which is a $25,000 guaranteed money event is open to any player that competes in any one of our events. This is a huge benefit because many other tours either don't have something like this or they require you to play in many of there events to be able to compete in theirs.
In addition I would also like to let you know that I will most likely be unable to respond to any more of your posts. This is due to the fact that I own 6 other companies besides the Viking Cue 9-Ball Tour and those are were I really make my money. Oh, and I have to leave to get to the events down South. I hope to see everyone there.
Humbly yours,
Mike Janis
Owner/Founder - The Viking Cue 9-Ball Tour
So........Teacherman's name is Dick?
T
Timberly
Guest
Ignore
It's rare that I ignore someone on a message forum but I had no choice in this matter. I had to put TM on my ignore list as he's entirely too much of an ass to even think about wasting my time on anything he posts. Especially MJ and anyone else like myself that doesn't normally get involved in the bickering, might I suggest the ignore feature. It's a beautiful thing!
Peace!
It's rare that I ignore someone on a message forum but I had no choice in this matter. I had to put TM on my ignore list as he's entirely too much of an ass to even think about wasting my time on anything he posts. Especially MJ and anyone else like myself that doesn't normally get involved in the bickering, might I suggest the ignore feature. It's a beautiful thing!
Peace!
JAM said:
I guess your calm "voice of reason" is admirable.
But your modis operendi is to see everything through the "these guys are reallly good guys" filter. Not that there aren't some good guys. I suspect Mr. Janis is a good guy. But your filter keeps you from either seeing or addressing the point. And the result of it is, nothing will change. There should be no reason for a room with 15 tables or more to not want a tournament. But, there are hundreds of pool rooms who don't.
A room owner not wanting a tournament should be a red flag to pool lovers who don't have permanent filters.
Attack my personality all you want. I'm strong enough to handle it. There are usually 1 or 2 posters on my side, with a few neutral and several against. I won't whine about it. I'm perfectly comfortable being in the minority when it is the correct point of view. But, I will defend my point of view. Aggressively.
Answers to these following questions will go a long way to rebuilding the sport................
Why is the room owner the only one carrying any risk?
Why is it ok for the room owner to work for nothing, or as the pool culture likes to say, "give back to the game", but not the player or the td?
Can you imagine a tournament without prize money? Why, who would show up? Yet, you are asking the room owner to do just that. At least it is a very real possibility not at all off set by the times he does make a little.
But you say the product, the product? Yes, there is product that can be sold. Why the room owner? Why doesn't the td sell the product? Or better yet, why doesn't the player sell the product to generate the money for the tournament. They are the two who benefit.
Have you ever asked a local star player to help you with an event? He won't work without some compensation. Yet, the room owner should hold a tournament that history says he won't profit from.
If there is guaranteed money, why should the td make it and not the room owner?
Why would a room owner not want a tournament?
Why would a room owner try to make a business out of customers that don't spend money? Especially when there are "other" customers that do.
What gives a non spending customer the right to have a say in anything?
Why does this non spending customer think he should be treated special?
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Teacherman said:
Regional events such as this provide the opportunity for a smart room owner to make some good money. All it takes is a little marketing on the owner's part. I have host rooms on our tour that go out to local businesses and offer them the chance to participate as advertisers. Local beer and soft drink distributors can put up banners, offer specials, etc. Other businesses might choose to sponsor tables with their signs posted above the lights during the event. A car dealer might bring a couple of model cars to park outside with a salesman or sales material. A little creativity can turn a tournament into a very profitable event. If a room owner thinks the money is just going to roll in because he is hosting a tournament, he probably needs to rethink his plan. Good business people see ways to maximize their profits.
The Viking and other tours give them the chance to have an event that will draw a crowd, and break even or better just by hosting the event. The smart owner will see ways to make it bigger, better and more profitable.
Steve