DELETED POST?!?! Mike Janis & Viking Cue tour????

Wow, this thread sure exploded in a hurry. I have received numerous PMs asking me to take a look at this thread and try to reign it in. I do ask that all parties involved remember the fact that we are all members of the forums and deserve a little respect.

There is nothing wrong with debating something (although I do think this has been debated to death). What I have a problem with is insulting another user because they don't agree with you.

Can we try to just debate the facts instead of getting into the name calling?

Mike
 
pooltchr said:
...I have host rooms on our tour that go out to local businesses and offer them the chance to participate as advertisers....
Click to expand...

"Offer them the chance". Ahh, the lemons into lemonade move.

I prefer to not buy the lemons in the first place.

And the local businesses would be just as thrilled as I am that all these people we're marketing to are either broke or don't spend.

Sorry, but I won't mislead my fellow community business leaders.
 
Last edited:
So, what say you Dick?
You've never answered my question.
And, as a pool player, I'd like to know.
What is this "right thing" that we as players are supposed to do?
 
Teacherman said:
Good Morning all. I see you've missed me.

Let's get started.

To the point of what the Mr. Janis' fee is, it is very easy to figure out if you attend a tournament. His unwillingness to discuss it means only he hopes others don't figure it out.

As watchez said, go to a tournament take the entry fee x the number of players and add in the added money. Then pay attention to the tournament prize fund, subtract. What's left is what he took from the supposed prize fund.

Then, pay attention to the calcutta. Calculate the total amount of the auction. Then find out the calcutta payouts. Subtract. That remaining amount is what he took from the calcutta.

Add those two number together and that is what he keeps. His sponsors may pay him something. I'm not concerned with that. They probably don't.

But, if I'm holding an event in my place, my reputation is at stake. My ability to hold future events is at stake. If the players don't think the payouts are reasonable compared to the entry fees, added money and calcutta, then my ability to get them back is harmed.

So, it is a reasonable question to ask Mr. Janis. His unwillingness to state it publicly, when it can be easily figured out by anyone at any of his events, means something. If he'd be more open, we'd all know.

I have run Teachers Amateur 9 Ball Tour in the past (for about 4 years). A local event which drew anywhere from 40 - 80 players each month. Summer turnout always low, winter high. When I advertised the event, the flyer stated what the entry fees were and how the prizes would be paid. Every nickel was accounted for. Before the event ever started they were told what would happen. After the event was over they got an accounting of where the money went. The ledger always balanced.

I have run Teachers 8 Ball League for 10 years. 3 session per year so 30 sessions. The league fees are stated on the advertisement. The prize money payouts are stated also. At the end of each session a P & L is printed and available to anyone who wants to see it. Every nickel is accounted for.

In other words, I live up to my word. I'm not afraid of it. I will talk openly about the payouts. I have no care or concern about any possible complaint because the money is collected and paid as I said it would be.

So, as a prospective host of a Viking Tour event, I would like the td to be as open and up front as I had been in the past. Hiding this information, which is easily determined by anyone anytime is not good practice. Calling it proprietary is ridiculous. Anyone can figure it out. Not being willing to save me the time by telling me up front is a waste of my time. And, as watchez said, since it's all there to be calculated, and he won't tell us, it must mean some owners get a better deal than others. Which I'm sure he doesn't want out there.
Click to expand...


I'm a new poster, but a long time lurker, regardless please hold the flames.
First off I've thought a lot about this thread, and the game of pool is truly the motivation for me posting. I work in a fast paced business world that changes on a dime, so my only real "expertise" (notice the quotes) is business, not pool. But I play devil's advocate when I make decisions, and here is my opinion.

Overall
If you look at the pool world and the people that belong to it, we are entirely different than any other sport. It's hard to make a side-by-side comparisson with any sport or game. What we know is that the pool world doesn't have a lot of money, we're in fact "poor", the reputation of our sport/game seems to have degraded from the "game of kings" as it once was, and the people are very reluctant to change. Unfortunately I'm sure we can keep naming items on the "bad list" all night.

Teacherman
You make tons of good points, lots of which are taken in vein because IMO you put people on the defensive 24/7. Here are some points that stood out in my mind:
Pool players don't make the room owner money. (I seem to agree w/ this)
Mike Janis's proposals for tournaments are a "secret" to others. (and in a world where money is tight, this seems leary to lots of people)
Here is my .02, take it as you wish. We all know you have every opportunity to run your pool hall as you wish. And I thank you for voicing your opinion because it's a valuable one. You bring an insight which is needed to the pool world. But your opinion comes with a grain of salt because it looks as if you try to degrade the reputation of someone who has new idea's. Your post, like the one I quoted, was very insightful. But when you flame someone, other people see that as a knock on you reputation. The pool world needs your opinion, don't kill your rep, because it kills your opinion.

Mike Janis
Never been to your tourney, but your reputation as a good tourney director has been proclaimed numerous times on this forum in more than one place. It also seems you are the catalyst for growth. Thank you very much for everything you have done, but here is food for thought. I'm not going to find the exact quote, but somewhere in this thread you didn't want your competitors to know your formula for the tourney. Your competitor will eventually learn your formula for success and copy it because you can't patent it. (that is my opinion, but I work in a field where intellectual property is a daily argument) Regardless people like Teacherman do have a message to send, you might not agree with his opinions, but to further the opportunity's for pool and yourself, listen to him. Answer every question he has and make it where he doesn't have an excuse to NOT invite your tournament into his pool room. Regardless , I wish I were in the same position as you. You've got the chance to really change the industry. And the person who changes this industry will not only make money for themselves and everyone else in the pool world, but will reinstall the respect of the game in the public's eye. I envy you, and hope that you can lead the way.

All in all, IMO pool is going in the right direction, just slowly. Everyone wants to fix it, everyone has an ideal outcome for how it should be, but very few are taking the "dangerous" step to obtain the outcome. But the ones who put in the most work, take the most chances, and makes the best decisions will be the ones who gain the most in the future.

kyles
 
kyles said:
Teacherman
You make tons of good points...
Click to expand...

And without my attitude they wouldn't be listened to. I don't expect to be the one who convinces everyone. I don't expect to be involved in any changes to this pool world. My days are numbered.

And, I could care less who gets credit for making changes. But, as long as status quo is comfortable, that's what we'll get.

If you're so smart and slick, take these ideas and run with them. Good luck.
 
I dont get into flame wars and i still wont but TM will be the 1st person that I put on my ignore list.
The old saying is if you have nothing nice to say ,say nothing!
 
kyles said:
I'm a new poster, but a long time lurker, regardless please hold the flames.
First off I've thought a lot about this thread, and the game of pool is truly the motivation for me posting. I work in a fast paced business world that changes on a dime, so my only real "expertise" (notice the quotes) is business, not pool. But I play devil's advocate when I make decisions, and here is my opinion.

Overall
If you look at the pool world and the people that belong to it, we are entirely different than any other sport. It's hard to make a side-by-side comparisson with any sport or game. What we know is that the pool world doesn't have a lot of money, we're in fact "poor", the reputation of our sport/game seems to have degraded from the "game of kings" as it once was, and the people are very reluctant to change. Unfortunately I'm sure we can keep naming items on the "bad list" all night.

Teacherman
You make tons of good points, lots of which are taken in vein because IMO you put people on the defensive 24/7. Here are some points that stood out in my mind:
Pool players don't make the room owner money. (I seem to agree w/ this)
Mike Janis's proposals for tournaments are a "secret" to others. (and in a world where money is tight, this seems leary to lots of people)
Here is my .02, take it as you wish. We all know you have every opportunity to run your pool hall as you wish. And I thank you for voicing your opinion because it's a valuable one. You bring an insight which is needed to the pool world. But your opinion comes with a grain of salt because it looks as if you try to degrade the reputation of someone who has new idea's. Your post, like the one I quoted, was very insightful. But when you flame someone, other people see that as a knock on you reputation. The pool world needs your opinion, don't kill your rep, because it kills your opinion.

Mike Janis
Never been to your tourney, but your reputation as a good tourney director has been proclaimed numerous times on this forum in more than one place. It also seems you are the catalyst for growth. Thank you very much for everything you have done, but here is food for thought. I'm not going to find the exact quote, but somewhere in this thread you didn't want your competitors to know your formula for the tourney. Your competitor will eventually learn your formula for success and copy it because you can't patent it. (that is my opinion, but I work in a field where intellectual property is a daily argument) Regardless people like Teacherman do have a message to send, you might not agree with his opinions, but to further the opportunity's for pool and yourself, listen to him. Answer every question he has and make it where he doesn't have an excuse to NOT invite your tournament into his pool room. Regardless , I wish I were in the same position as you. You've got the chance to really change the industry. And the person who changes this industry will not only make money for themselves and everyone else in the pool world, but will reinstall the respect of the game in the public's eye. I envy you, and hope that you can lead the way.

All in all, IMO pool is going in the right direction, just slowly. Everyone wants to fix it, everyone has an ideal outcome for how it should be, but very few are taking the "dangerous" step to obtain the outcome. But the ones who put in the most work, take the most chances, and makes the best decisions will be the ones who gain the most in the future.

kyles
Click to expand...

Good analytical post.
Mike Janis has every right to keep a unique money making method to himself for as long as he wishes. If the room owner has a written contract stating that a minimum revenue over normal earnings is to be generated as a direct result of his/her tournament, then that contract must be honored.
If not, the tournament director should be held liable for that amount.
The room owner must also take initiative, and through creative marketing, try to build on that minimum.
It is, after all, a joint business venture.

The problem I have is when someone looks at the offer, and then without researching it's credibility or possible profitability, directs accusations at the td and gives an impression to all those in earshot that the deal is crooked.

All he had to do is read the post, decide it wasn't for him, and pass it over.
Or, call Mike and discuss his reluctance in private, so he doesn't cause undue damage to a reputable business.
 
AzHousePro said:
... What I have a problem with is insulting another user because they don't agree with you...
Click to expand...

First, let me say that I disagree with the above. I could care less what people think of me. I could care less if they agree with me. I could care less what they post about me. In fact, I hope they do attack me. I hope they criticize.

At the same time, I hope I create dissent. I hope I create anger. I happen to believe allowing passion and personal challenges forces posters to think and back up what they believe with fact. Facts are needed. Facts clarify. Facts lead to better decision making. Better decision making will better our sport.

Individual thinking is something done little of in the pool world. The mob effect, and hurd thinking, is far too prevalent. In fact, it is used (abused) by many leaders in the pool culture.

But.......

What I do think is quite distasteful and shows bias and is unacceptable is when a bulletin board owner says one thing and does another.

And, what is also highly distasteful, are adults whining to other adults about certain posts or posters on the internet.

Look at this page of this thread. His comment is post #1 on this page. Then, no less than 4 posters immediately ignore his comment.

That folks, is an example of the quality of leadership in the pool world.

Now, that can be taken however the owner likes. I don't expect him to like it. But, the truth is important.

I have openly and publicly challenged Mr. AZHousePRo. Is it really any different that the 4 posters who are basically hiding behind their computer and privately flipping him off by ignoring his post.

He can now answer and start a dialogue or he can ban or bar. It's his show. But, we'll find out if censorship or leadership is more important to him.

Ladies and gentlemen................start your PM's.
 
Last edited:
Jeff,
Norm may have used that saying, but I think it was first used by one of the 3 Stooges, I think Curly, way back when. JMO Carry on gentlemen!

chefjeff said:
FYI, the line, "I resemble that remark," comes from the comedian Norm Crosby. Norm is hard of hearing, and he based his bit (career?) on "confusing" what people said to him and what he would say to others.

More info on Norm here:

http://shtick.org/NormCrosby/norm36.htm

Jeff Livingston
Click to expand...
;)
 
cueman said:
When I moved back to Georgia I had to move over 50 miles out of Atlanta to be able to afford something with a few acres of land. So I really don't know what the market is like nearer the city. I grew up around Marietta and Woodstock and really liked it there then, but hate the congestion there now.
Click to expand...
Mike, I second Chris's assessment. I live in Canton and the traffic toward me (northwest of town) is horrible from 7:00 am to 9:30 am, and again from about 3:30 pm to 7:30 pm.

Depending on what you want to be close to (i.e. the airport), you might consider the south side of town. I think the prices may be a little better there also.
Scott
 
Teacherman said:
First, let me say that I disagree with the above. I could care less what people think of me. I could care less if they agree with me. I could care less what they post about me. In fact, I hope they do attack me. I hope they criticize.
Click to expand...

That's because you're a attention-whoring troll. But one with style and a lot of energy.

At the same time, I hope I create dissent. I hope I create anger. I happen to believe allowing passion and personal challenges forces posters to think and back up what they believe with fact. Facts are needed. Facts clarify. Facts lead to better decision making. Better decision making will better our sport.
Click to expand...

Facts are that Mike guarenteed you profit, even though facts also show that you are unable to run a profitable tournament yourself. Fact is, you are the one who changed the discussion from "I can't make any money" to "how much money does everybody else make".

What I do think is quite distasteful and shows bias and is unacceptable is when a bulletin board owner says one thing and does another.

Look at this page of this thread. His comment is post #1 on this page. Then, no less than 4 posters immediately ignore his comment.
Click to expand...

Facts are that 2 out of the 4 were posted less than 1 minute after, and the third 4 minutes after. Not everybody is obsessively clicking on the refresh button waiting to get the last word in. I'll give you the 4th, but I think it's still close.

I can't even fathom why you would run a pool hall given your complete disgust with the players. Maybe you didn't always feel that way, or maybe you get players with no respect for you because they know you have no respect for the. Either way, doing something that it sounds like you hate must really suck.
 
MikeJanis said:
Land is exactly what I want. 5-10 acres will do. A pond would be nice along with some woods but no snakes please.

Mj
Click to expand...
East (Covington / Monroe area), west (Carollton or beyond), waaayyyy north (Jasper or north) for land. Developers are buying or families are sitting on land inside there. Again, don't know about south.
Scott

is this off topic??? :p
 
Teacherman said:
First, let me say that I disagree with the above. I could care less what people think of me. I could care less if they agree with me. I could care less what they post about me. In fact, I hope they do attack me. I hope they criticize.

At the same time, I hope I create dissent. I hope I create anger. I happen to believe allowing passion and personal challenges forces posters to think and back up what they believe with fact. Facts are needed. Facts clarify. Facts lead to better decision making. Better decision making will better our sport.

Individual thinking is something done little of in the pool world. The mob effect, and hurd thinking, is far too prevalent. In fact, it is used (abused) by many leaders in the pool culture.

But.......

What I do think is quite distasteful and shows bias and is unacceptable is when a bulletin board owner says one thing and does another.

And, what is also highly distasteful, are adults whining to other adults about certain posts or posters on the internet.

Look at this page of this thread. His comment is post #1 on this page. Then, no less than 4 posters immediately ignore his comment.

That folks, is an example of the quality of leadership in the pool world.

Now, that can be taken however the owner likes. I don't expect him to like it. But, the truth is important.

I have openly and publicly challenged Mr. AZHousePRo. Is it really any different that the 4 posters who are basically hiding behind their computer and privately flipping him off by ignoring his post.

He can now answer and start a dialogue or he can ban or bar. It's his show. But, we'll find out if censorship or leadership is more important to him.

Ladies and gentlemen................start your PM's.
Click to expand...

You really are quite the spin doctor.
The nerve you must have to purposely insult people then call for justice when confronted with the fact that you are indeed in the wrong.
Poor little dick. :(
 
BazookaJoe said:
You really are quite the spin doctor.
The nerve you must have to purposely insult people then call for justice when confronted with the fact that you are indeed in the wrong.
Poor little dick. :(
Click to expand...

Show me the call for justice? You missed the entire point. Which isn't surprising.

Again, I have to ask you .......Do you play pool?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top