Derby City Favortism...

That stuff doesn't fly!

Wybrook said:
I had to play Johnny Archer in the 7th round of the 9 ball on Saturday at 11:00am. I got there and hit balls early as well as most of the other players and the matches were announced a few minutes after 11. Everyone started their matches except for me.

At 11:10 am, Johnny wasn't there so I went to the tournament desk and advised them and the woman attending the tournament told me he was on the clock and had 5 minutes.

At 11:20 am I went back to the desk and asked them if it was now a forfeit and what time the next draw was at, since Johnny had not shown up yet. I was told that they didnt have the authority to forfeit him...?

At 11:30 am, Johnny shows up and I am told to play, even though he is a half hour late.

I was a little bothered by this whole episode and it reflected in my game and I henceforth, lost the match. I went and found the tournament director who was not present during the earlier dealings and he said that since he was not present he can't make a decision. I was told to go talk to the "real" head tournament director "Paul Smith", who I looked for and asked for, but he was not around the desk (apparently, just when things like this come up).

I feel a little jaded by this whole situation and wanted to vent a little. There were lots of players forfeited over the tournament, why not this match? The rule was 15 mintutes, as specified in the Player's Meeting and posted on the site. It cost me an extra $300 and possibly more, if I had won the match.

Any thoughts?
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On the seminole pro tour that just doesn't happen. The tour directors are very good about keeping the players accountable for their match times. I've seen on a few occasions, the tournament directors tell a player he's been forfeited as he walks in to the tournament room 2 minutes late for his match (after being on the clock for 15 mintues). This includes top names, and in key points in the tournament. I'm sorry you had to go through that. I'm sure if the tournament directors know what's going on, and you give em a bit of heck, they'll be able to properly train their staff to handle such situations in the future.

Best of luck and I hope this kind of stuff doesn't happen again.
 
Big Perm said:
This example = just another one of many problems with pool and why it will never get the money or exposure....

In golf, if a player misses the tee time for a pro-am, he's disqualified completely from the entire event.....no excuses, no bs....

You are late for an interview, you don't get the job....

Hell, even football players have been sat out out an entire half for being late to a game....
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True that......
 
PocketPoint said:
On the Joss tour, or at least the turning stone event, for every 5 minutes you are late, you give up a game on the wire. Once 15 minutes hits, you are forfeited no exceptions.

Did Johnny give up any games on the wire?
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That't a good idea, other tournaments should copy that.
 
justmedude2001 said:
i know who jordan and gretzky are but who the heck is "kolby"???
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I was going to make a funny playing on Colby/Kobe but this is a serious thread and I am editing it.

In all seriousness, when a player is late for a match, many thoughts start passing through the opponent's mind that SHOULDN'T be there. It can and does distract the player who is waiting. If you've never been in that position you just hven't experienced the waiting. In the past, I have sometimes thought that a player has made a special effort to wait until the very last minute to walk up to the table, just to distract me and I'm probably just paranoid but it sure is conincidental that they often show up at the very last minute, as if they were waiting behind a door or something.

I don't know what the circumstances were for this match except by what I read here but it appears that Wynbrook got a raw deal.

Rules should be for all players, NO EXCEPTIONS.

Jay Helfert, I'm calling you out here buddy. Putting you on the spot. We want to hear it from someone who has been there and done that. Have you ever made exceptions for top players, if so why?
 
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How did JA act when he showed up? Entitled or apologetic? Apathetic?

This would matter to me regarding how upset I got about it (if I were in your shoes that is).


Did you give him warm up time? I would think you would have an advantage with extra warm ups and him with no warm ups.
 
Wybrook said:
I had to play Johnny Archer in the 7th round of the 9 ball on Saturday at 11:00am. I got there and hit balls early as well as most of the other players and the matches were announced a few minutes after 11. Everyone started their matches except for me.

At 11:10 am, Johnny wasn't there so I went to the tournament desk and advised them and the woman attending the tournament told me he was on the clock and had 5 minutes.

At 11:20 am I went back to the desk and asked them if it was now a forfeit and what time the next draw was at, since Johnny had not shown up yet. I was told that they didnt have the authority to forfeit him...?

At 11:30 am, Johnny shows up and I am told to play, even though he is a half hour late.

I was a little bothered by this whole episode and it reflected in my game and I henceforth, lost the match. I went and found the tournament director who was not present during the earlier dealings and he said that since he was not present he can't make a decision. I was told to go talk to the "real" head tournament director "Paul Smith", who I looked for and asked for, but he was not around the desk (apparently, just when things like this come up).

I feel a little jaded by this whole situation and wanted to vent a little. There were lots of players forfeited over the tournament, why not this match? The rule was 15 mintutes, as specified in the Player's Meeting and posted on the site. It cost me an extra $300 and possibly more, if I had won the match.

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

If that is the rule. Then you are right regardless of who says what
 
deebee53 said:
How did JA act when he showed up? Entitled or apologetic? Apathetic?

This would matter to me regarding how upset I got about it (if I were in your shoes that is).


Did you give him warm up time? I would think you would have an advantage with extra warm ups and him with no warm ups.
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Id like to hear the response to this. If JA apologised and had a valid excuse, that's not as bad. If he strutted in like King Dick, that's another story
 
DoubleD said:
Sorry, man, but no. This isn't something that is wrong with pool. This is simply something that is wrong with JA (provided he knew he was late, he should have forfeited, even if not forced--it is called 'character') and the tournament directors.

dld
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You don't have to be sorry, you are wrong :grin:

It's happened with other players, top players, in big events.....and it's been outed on AZ before.....it even happens in regional tours and smaller events.....big names get a pass often....and it can shark the smaller fish....
 
Derby

I feel for ya. How can you not be sharked, when you know you should have won the match by forfeit, no matter who the opponent is? Cost you money and more, probably. Afterall, a pass through Mr. Archer that deep in a tournament is huge.
Mr. Archer should have had enough consideration to at least have someone contact the Director and let you know he is on the way. You may have felt differently about his tardiness. Otherwise, he got over you and made those working the Tournament look foolish. And those folks work way too hard to be put in that position.
Unless there are some unknown factors we don't know, as to why they bent the rules, (maybe he was doing some trick shots for children or a charity. Or perhaps a TV interview.) the folks at the Tournament Desk needed to strap on some balls and say, "Sorry Mr. Archer, we had to forfeit your match."
One can bet that he knew what time the match was scheduled and knew he was not near on time.
I hope he gave you a big Thank You for waiting and apologized for his tardiness.
 
I was on the other side of this. I kept going down to the tournament window to see when/where my match would be and it would have TBD everytime. On about the fifth time it said table 34 and NOW. I ran around trying to find table 34 and when I got there Mike Davis had been waiting for some time. Fortunately, he was patiently waiting and said he would never call for a forfeit in that situation. I felt bad and took about two or three shots for a warmup and then got spanked. I think he missed two shots in 10 games.
 
topcat1953 said:
I feel for ya. How can you not be sharked, when you know you should have won the match by forfeit, no matter who the opponent is? Cost you money and more, probably. Afterall, a pass through Mr. Archer that deep in a tournament is huge.
Mr. Archer should have had enough consideration to at least have someone contact the Director and let you know he is on the way. You may have felt differently about his tardiness. Otherwise, he got over you and made those working the Tournament look foolish. And those folks work way too hard to be put in that position.
Unless there are some unknown factors we don't know, as to why they bent the rules, (maybe he was doing some trick shots for children or a charity. Or perhaps a TV interview.) the folks at the Tournament Desk needed to strap on some balls and say, "Sorry Mr. Archer, we had to forfeit your match."
One can bet that he knew what time the match was scheduled and knew he was not near on time.
I hope he gave you a big Thank You for waiting and apologized for his tardiness.
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That is one bright avatar lol
 
Wybrook said:
I had to play Johnny Archer in the 7th round of the 9 ball on Saturday at 11:00am. I got there and hit balls early as well as most of the other players and the matches were announced a few minutes after 11. Everyone started their matches except for me.

At 11:10 am, Johnny wasn't there so I went to the tournament desk and advised them and the woman attending the tournament told me he was on the clock and had 5 minutes.

At 11:20 am I went back to the desk and asked them if it was now a forfeit and what time the next draw was at, since Johnny had not shown up yet. I was told that they didnt have the authority to forfeit him...?

At 11:30 am, Johnny shows up and I am told to play, even though he is a half hour late.

I was a little bothered by this whole episode and it reflected in my game and I henceforth, lost the match. I went and found the tournament director who was not present during the earlier dealings and he said that since he was not present he can't make a decision. I was told to go talk to the "real" head tournament director "Paul Smith", who I looked for and asked for, but he was not around the desk (apparently, just when things like this come up).

I feel a little jaded by this whole situation and wanted to vent a little. There were lots of players forfeited over the tournament, why not this match? The rule was 15 mintutes, as specified in the Player's Meeting and posted on the site. It cost me an extra $300 and possibly more, if I had won the match.

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't have played if it was clearly stated in the rules that once a match was called, all player had xx amount of time or it's a forfeit. You had every right to not play and accept it as a win.

a quick story: I used to play some 3-cushion and I was so excited to get to play Sang Lee in 1992, it was an 8 AM match. The rules were 15 minutes late and forfeit, no exceptions. Well I guess there was one exception, we played at 8:40 AM (first match of the tournament).

I talked w/Allen Gilbert about what happened and he said he used to be nice about things like this but decided rules are rules and he started unscrewing once the forfeit time passes and he refused to play. I agree with him now. Although I loved getting drilled by Sang Lee and it was an honor to play him, it would have been way more fun if I could have met him in the finals bracket :).

dave
 
JoeyA said:
I was going to make a funny playing on Colby/Kobe but this is a serious thread and I am editing it.
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Leave the funny stuff in there from now on. We can all use a little humor from time to time.

Maniac
 
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Wybrook said:
Haha.... I am not there to play against Johnny Archer to get experience. I can win the match if he makes one or two mistakes, or breaks poorly...

I am not some league player playing a "big" tournament so I can get a chance to meet someone... :)
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I failed to notice who you were at the beginning, but I see now...

A: surely you have been the JA in your time around the pool world? Granted a little favor of time to get there?

2. I got nothin.
 
What was the score?? LOL


Honestly I see why you're upset but really saying that you lost the match due to his being late?? Bud, I dont know you but I really doubt you wouldve won anyways sorry dear....

:grin-square:
 
BankPoolChicka said:
What was the score?? LOL


Honestly I see why you're upset but really saying that you lost the match due to his being late?? Bud, I dont know you but I really doubt you wouldve won anyways sorry dear....

:grin-square:
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haha.. really....??

In actuality, I can win this tournament. This wasn't round 1 and I am not some APA 2 getting my jollies playing in a "big" tourney. I finished 21st out of 293 players....

I was slightly sharked due to JA showing up late, then having the tournament desk side-step me when I asked about a forfeit. I did not play my game and I can definately win if I do.

I never said that I lost the match due to this, but it may have been an attributing factor...
 
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JoeyA said:
I was going to make a funny playing on Colby/Kobe but this is a serious thread and I am editing it.

In all seriousness, when a player is late for a match, many thoughts start passing through the opponent's mind that SHOULDN'T be there. It can and does distract the player who is waiting. If you've never been in that position you just hven't experienced the waiting. In the past, I have sometimes thought that a player has made a special effort to wait until the very last minute to walk up to the table, just to distract me and I'm probably just paranoid but it sure is conincidental that they often show up at the very last minute, as if they were waiting behind a door or something.

I don't know what the circumstances were for this match except by what I read here but it appears that Wynbrook got a raw deal.

Rules should be for all players, NO EXCEPTIONS.

Jay Helfert, I'm calling you out here buddy. Putting you on the spot. We want to hear it from someone who has been there and done that. Have you ever made exceptions for top players, if so why?
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Joey, please read my post #30. It is true that I have done all I can to locate a name player who is late for his match, mainly because I may know how or who to call. But if they don't show, it's a NO GO! I could read you a laundry list of top pros I have forfeited, beginning with a certain Mr. Sigel and including the aforementioned JA.

I will say that there have been exceptions made, when I find out that a member of my staff told someone an incorrect time (yes, it has happened). But what's happened far more often is that someone misreads the board or has a friend read the tournament board and they get it wrong. In this case, it becomes the player's responsibility. I ALWAYS tell them (usually at the player's meeting), if you aren't sure about when your match is scheduled to ask a member of the tournament staff to assist you.
 
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You got screwed. I was their last year and it was posted for me to play at 11 PM. I had drew a top player and was at my table waiting. Well, 11:15 come around and I go check and I was told my match was moved to the AM. Seems some of the players get their way and some don't. If you are late you for fit no exceptions To late now. Better luck next year
 
Quoting Paul8ball from another thread (post # 23 here - http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=218717&page=2):

The numbers for this year's DCC were up slightly from last year. 386 in Banks, 317 in One Pocket, and 293 in 9 Ball. We increased the entry fees several years ago. Between moving to a new venue and the increased entry fees, the overall numbers have gone down from the days when the tournament was at the Executive West. The most affected was the 9 Ball as it has the highest entry fee.

This is the first year that we were able to give players scheduled match times. We were not sure how well this would work, as it is very complicated to plan out a schedule that will work for the unusual format of the DCC. In retrospect, the scheduled match times worked very well. We did have some problems with the computer feeding the TV's in the rooms. Due to this problem, we were very lenient about forfeiting matches. [/B
 
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