DerbyCity responce

Greg/Diamond

Greg/Diamond

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Greg/DiamondGreg/Diamond
thanks to all who participated in the 2023 Derby City Classic, whether as players, fans watching on the stream, or spectators in attendance. While I am delighted to have completed another Derby City Classic, I cannot ignore some of the negative feedback I’ve been getting from various sources in the aftermath of the event.

The 10:00 AMcompletion of the Derby City 9-ball event is not something I am taking lightly. Asking players to play for so many consecutive hours to win the title was regrettable.

I know that the delay put undue stress on the players, some of whom were so tired in the late rounds that they could not perform at peak level. I realize that some had to risk missing their flights out of Louisville to continue competing, and that was hardly fair.

Similarly, the late finish performing in their peak form but got less. In addition, many fans didn’t even get to see the late rounds of nine ball as the matches were played in the early morning.

Spectators in attendance had it just as bad as the players, called on to either pull an all-nighter or go to bed and miss the last matches.

In view of these problems, we at Diamond Billiards will be studying what happened at the 2023 Derby City Classic in order to find methods of improving the management of the event. We are not satisfied with how it went and want our patrons to know as much.

To help us fix the problems, we encourage both players and fans alike to offer us additional feedback through social media outlets and pool websites, to which we'll pay attenti
 
Kentucky Rack Man

Kentucky Rack Man

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
I appreciate your response and attention to desire to meet the needs of the players, spectators, and anyone wishing to enjoy the most recognized pool extravaganza in the USA. Thanks for reaching out.
 
iusedtoberich

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi Greg, thanks for the opportunity to provide feedback. I've been to about 5 or 6 DCC's from 2010 to 2018, and even visited your factory 3 trips, ha ha:) The years before and after, I've watched and followed online. I'm actually a bit scared to come back, I think I'd die of starvation, since the casino remodel after 2018.

Some of my feedback from a player/in-person spectator/online spectator over the years:

Please go back to race to 7 for the 9 ball. It was extended to 9 in about 2015 for one year of WPA and/or BCA sanctioning. That came and went. Race to 7 is better for amateurs. This tournament was "designed for the masses" when you made the banks entry less than the spectator entry, to encourage participation. All the talk is always focused on making 1 pocket quicker. But, time is time. It does not matter if 10 minutes per match is removed from 9 ball or one pocket. 10 minutes = 10 minutes. Also, Banks traditionally had the highest entry, and 9 ball the least. Now in recent years, 9 ball seems to have the most, or near the most. So shortening the 9 ball may save more time than shortening banks or one hole.

Please go back to pro-cut pockets. Diamond 4.5" pro-cut pockets are tighter than the old days of Gold Crown triple shimmed pockets, due to the shelf. There is ZERO reason to go tighter than 4.5" Pro-Cut. Don't buy into all the recent Matchroom hoopla that pockets should be 4". That is ridiculous and completely ruins all pool games for all players, except the 10 Shane level players in the world. Emily can't even make ball in hand and she wants 4" pockets.

Please don't let the players/spectators/staff starve. Get that hamburger station back at the tournament room entrance. And/or, ask the casino if they would allow food trucks in the parking lot. You are filling the casino with rooms, gamblers, and customers. The casino should be accommodating us for the influx of food needed, at all hours of the day and night.

Is there a way to utilize the tables better? For example, do the draw even when a round is not complete, so that players that have advanced can get a head start on their next round matches. It's all random draws anyway, so you can program your software to assign both players of every match still playing into the next round, assuming one will win, and the second would buy back. Then, if one does not by back, you could make a random software selection for who was set to be that player's opponent. This would keep the tables going full time, instead of potentially empty an hour or more between each round. You could even do the draw for the "entire" event if you set it up this way at round 1. Then, the minute a table is open, it can be filled with a match.

Please partner with one of the new bracket companies. They might be able to modernize following the brackets from home. We all know these are not traditional brackets. But the web based ones have come a long way, and they may be able to lend some of their improvements to readability to the DCC brackets. For example, most of the web based ones now, when you click on a player, it instantly shows you all the opponents they played, and the match scores. Also, if you partner with one of these bracket companies, perhaps you can actually add match scores, that would feed into FargoRate.

That's all for now, thanks for hosting the event!
 
Greg/Diamond

Greg/Diamond

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
iusedtoberich said:
Hi Greg, thanks for the opportunity to provide feedback. I've been to about 5 or 6 DCC's from 2010 to 2018, and even visited your factory 3 trips, ha ha:) The years before and after, I've watched and followed online. I'm actually a bit scared to come back, I think I'd die of starvation, since the casino remodel after 2018.

Some of my feedback from a player/in-person spectator/online spectator over the years:

Please go back to race to 7 for the 9 ball. It was extended to 9 in about 2015 for one year of WPA and/or BCA sanctioning. That came and went. Race to 7 is better for amateurs. This tournament was "designed for the masses" when you made the banks entry less than the spectator entry, to encourage participation. All the talk is always focused on making 1 pocket quicker. But, time is time. It does not matter if 10 minutes per match is removed from 9 ball or one pocket. 10 minutes = 10 minutes. Also, Banks traditionally had the highest entry, and 9 ball the least. Now in recent years, 9 ball seems to have the most, or near the most. So shortening the 9 ball may save more time than shortening banks or one hole.

Please go back to pro-cut pockets. Diamond 4.5" pro-cut pockets are tighter than the old days of Gold Crown triple shimmed pockets, due to the shelf. There is ZERO reason to go tighter than 4.5" Pro-Cut. Don't buy into all the recent Matchroom hoopla that pockets should be 4". That is ridiculous and completely ruins all pool games for all players, except the 10 Shane level players in the world. Emily can't even make ball in hand and she wants 4" pockets.

Please don't let the players/spectators/staff starve. Get that hamburger station back at the tournament room entrance. And/or, ask the casino if they would allow food trucks in the parking lot. You are filling the casino with rooms, gamblers, and customers. The casino should be accommodating us for the influx of food needed, at all hours of the day and night.

Is there a way to utilize the tables better? For example, do the draw even when a round is not complete, so that players that have advanced can get a head start on their next round matches. It's all random draws anyway, so you can program your software to assign both players of every match still playing into the next round, assuming one will win, and the second would buy back. Then, if one does not by back, you could make a random software selection for who was set to be that player's opponent. This would keep the tables going full time, instead of potentially empty an hour or more between each round. You could even do the draw for the "entire" event if you set it up this way at round 1. Then, the minute a table is open, it can be filled with a match.

Please partner with one of the new bracket companies. They might be able to modernize following the brackets from home. We all know these are not traditional brackets. But the web based ones have come a long way, and they may be able to lend some of their improvements to readability to the DCC brackets. For example, most of the web based ones now, when you click on a player, it instantly shows you all the opponents they played, and the match scores. Also, if you partner with one of these bracket companies, perhaps you can actually add match scores, that would feed into FargoRate.

That's all for now, thanks for hosting the event!
Click to expand...
I really appreciate your suggestions and will definitely discuss it with my partner. We changed to a race to nine to satisfy the WPA with the increased attendance in the tournaments time is definitely something that we gotta look at. Thanks for the suggestion.
 
Greg/Diamond

Greg/Diamond

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Greg/Diamond said:
I really appreciate your suggestions and will definitely discuss it with my partner. We changed to a race to nine to satisfy the WPA with the increased attendance in the tournaments time is definitely something that we gotta look at. Thanks for the suggestion.
Click to expand...
Usually we stay in as far as the food at the derby city. I’ve got a meeting with the people at the hotel, where a food will be a number one topic of conversation. I’ll keep everyone posted on my results as I am definitely disappointing myself with a quality of food.
 
iusedtoberich

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
One more suggestion from a player standpoint, especially if you leverage the new technology and partner with a bracket company:

You could have a paging system tied to a player's email/text message to let them know when they are on deck to play. (Like at a restaurant when there is a waiting list). There is always stress from a player's standpoint of missing our match because we fumbled reading the list, or didn't read it in time. If you figure out a way to utilize the tables more efficiently, this might become a bigger issue. Of course, it's always the responsibility of the player to know their match, but with technology today, that can be much more automated than it currently is.

Edit, it could also speed up the event. The players could know they are on deck, and which table. So they could get there while the prior match is still going, and start play as soon as that match is over. That could save 15min or more per match, waiting for the players to show up.
 
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iusedtoberich

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
One more:

A lot of the tournaments now are putting tablets on the tables, and the players themselves keep score right then and there. This does a few things: 1) it ties to online fans to let them know what the score is. 2) It can tie right into fargorate, and report complete match scores. 3) Players no longer have to come to the desk to tell you the score, and you won't have to chase down players that failed to come to the desk to tell you the score.

I have not seen these in person, so I don't know what's involved in setting them up. But maybe whichever company does these (along with the brackets) would partner up with you and provide the service. Maybe there is even a way for each player to have a "DCC Player" app on their phone to keep score, instead of you providing a tablet per table.
 
S

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
@ OP
Opens aren't for the random wannabes to win. I think what happened is more indicative of what pool actually goes like. So in that regard it was an authentic pool experience. You can tell I care. That's the gambol dance...
 
Greg/Diamond

Greg/Diamond

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
iusedtoberich said:
Hi Greg, thanks for the opportunity to provide feedback. I've been to about 5 or 6 DCC's from 2010 to 2018, and even visited your factory 3 trips, ha ha:) The years before and after, I've watched and followed online. I'm actually a bit scared to come back, I think I'd die of starvation, since the casino remodel after 2018.

Some of my feedback from a player/in-person spectator/online spectator over the years:

Please go back to race to 7 for the 9 ball. It was extended to 9 in about 2015 for one year of WPA and/or BCA sanctioning. That came and went. Race to 7 is better for amateurs. This tournament was "designed for the masses" when you made the banks entry less than the spectator entry, to encourage participation. All the talk is always focused on making 1 pocket quicker. But, time is time. It does not matter if 10 minutes per match is removed from 9 ball or one pocket. 10 minutes = 10 minutes. Also, Banks traditionally had the highest entry, and 9 ball the least. Now in recent years, 9 ball seems to have the most, or near the most. So shortening the 9 ball may save more time than shortening banks or one hole.

Please go back to pro-cut pockets. Diamond 4.5" pro-cut pockets are tighter than the old days of Gold Crown triple shimmed pockets, due to the shelf. There is ZERO reason to go tighter than 4.5" Pro-Cut. Don't buy into all the recent Matchroom hoopla that pockets should be 4". That is ridiculous and completely ruins all pool games for all players, except the 10 Shane level players in the world. Emily can't even make ball in hand and she wants 4" pockets.

Please don't let the players/spectators/staff starve. Get that hamburger station back at the tournament room entrance. And/or, ask the casino if they would allow food trucks in the parking lot. You are filling the casino with rooms, gamblers, and customers. The casino should be accommodating us for the influx of food needed, at all hours of the day and night.

Is there a way to utilize the tables better? For example, do the draw even when a round is not complete, so that players that have advanced can get a head start on their next round matches. It's all random draws anyway, so you can program your software to assign both players of every match still playing into the next round, assuming one will win, and the second would buy back. Then, if one does not by back, you could make a random software selection for who was set to be that player's opponent. This would keep the tables going full time, instead of potentially empty an hour or more between each round. You could even do the draw for the "entire" event if you set it up this way at round 1. Then, the minute a table is open, it can be filled with a match.

Please partner with one of the new bracket companies. They might be able to modernize following the brackets from home. We all know these are not traditional brackets. But the web based ones have come a long way, and they may be able to lend some of their improvements to readability to the DCC brackets. For example, most of the web based ones now, when you click on a player, it instantly shows you all the opponents they played, and the match scores. Also, if you partner with one of these bracket companies, perhaps you can actually add match scores, that would feed into FargoRate.

That's all for now, thanks for hosting the event!
Click to expand...
If you or anyone knows of someone that involved with doing new brackets please have them contact me I would like to make it more convenient for people at home to follow the event
 
K

ky4some

Registered
Greg, I've been attending DCC since the very first one in 1999. I can even remember the days at Oliver's Billiards when your ideas for DCC first started getting bantered around. The idea for a tournament for the masses is still a great one. I for one appreciate the opportunity to attend a long event like DCC where regular players may get matched up with heroes. Or the chance to hang out in the action rooms and hear the barking as match up's get discussed. A big thank you to you and all the people that have put this event on for so many years.

That said, the world of professional pool has changed. It's goals have changed. The big name professional players no longer hang out in the action rooms. DCC is almost now several events rolled into one. And that's okay because I still believe DCC is great for the sport. It's just different than the early DCC days. And that means some alterations to operations may be needed.

I think it's great that you're here for feedback. Maybe the tournament director's staff needs to be increased. Maybe a room monitor in the upstairs tournament rooms to report to the tournament desk when a table is open. Maybe put out a request to long time DCC veterans or people who run local tournaments to work one day as some type of staff help. I realize that would require advanced training but much of that could be accomplished via online conferences.

For the record, I think that the DCC events at the Executive West were actually better than at the casino. At the Executive, the DCC was the only thing going on so it was truly a world of pool and pool only. In addition, when DCC was at the Executive, junior players could come watch their heroes play live. I think that's an element of DCC that could help continue to grow the sport in the junior ranks.

Thanks, Mike Kamer
 
sjm

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
Will have to give this more thought, but it's nice to see an open discourse between Diamond and those who go to the Derby.

Let's hope that feedback comes from each of the three groups you mention: players, watchers of the stream and those who were there as spectators. No group is more important than the other two, so the needs of each must be addressed.

I offered my insights in this thread, https://forums.azbilliards.com/threads/sjm-at-the-2023-derby-city-catastrophe.550868/ but my views are those of a fan in attendance and are, therefore, not a full account of how various people experienced the Derby.
 
O

OKDog

Registered
sjm said:
Will have to give this more thought, but it's nice to see an open discourse between Diamond and those who go to the Derby.

Let's hope that feedback comes from each of the three groups you mention: players, watchers of the stream and those who were there as spectators. No group is more important than the other two, so the needs of each must be addressed.

I offered my insights in this thread, https://forums.azbilliards.com/threads/sjm-at-the-2023-derby-city-catastrophe.550868/ but my views are those of a fan in attendance and are, therefore, not a full account of how various people experienced the Derby.
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I think this man's opinion are 80% more important than anyone else that replies. Please take that into consideration @Greg/Diamond
 
Greg/Diamond

Greg/Diamond

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Island Drive said:
If they don't Mark, tell em you'll send in the Food Trucks :).
Click to expand...
iusedtoberich said:
One more:

A lot of the tournaments now are putting tablets on the tables, and the players themselves keep score right then and there. This does a few things: 1) it ties to online fans to let them know what the score is. 2) It can tie right into fargorate, and report complete match scores. 3) Players no longer have to come to the desk to tell you the score, and you won't have to chase down players that failed to come to the desk to tell you the score.

I have not seen these in person, so I don't know what's involved in setting them up. But maybe whichever company does these (along with the brackets) would partner up with you and provide the service. Maybe there is even a way for each player to have a "DCC Player" app on their phone to keep score, instead of you providing a tablet per table.
Click to expand...
Bahgs said:
Why not use digitalpool?
Click to expand...
That sounds like a good idea getting a hold of digital pool. I don’t know anybody at digital pool I really don’t know how to get a hold of anybody but I’ll let the people at my company. Figure that out. Thanks for the idea. Hope it leads to something good.
 
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