I'll take your word, Gar. if I run into a blue label I'll give it a go and see what happens.
Diamond Pool Tables - Degree of Difficulty
- Thread starter mikemosconi
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I'll take your word, Gar. if I run into a blue label I'll give it a go and see what happens.
Funny
Every 3 months or so a thread is started about custom cues vs production cues.
The thread usually ends with " It's not the arrow it's the Indian " but that theory seems to fly out the window when talking tables .
It stands to reason if a person is use to 4.75 to 5in. pockets with shallow shelfs it is going to take dome getting use to.
You take a young person who never played on a loose table and they learn to be more precise. Most of the young kids that came into our room chose a table for the location not the pocket size. There was a old GC I with 3.75 pockets strictly for the top 1 pocket players but because it was nestled in a corner that is where the kids gravitated to even when told the pockets were impossible.
I stated in another thread I asked a ton of pro's at the US Open back when when they
were still playing on GC IV's their table choice all but 1 said Diamond.
I think a lot of people shark themselves on this subject. Just my opinion.
Every 3 months or so a thread is started about custom cues vs production cues.
The thread usually ends with " It's not the arrow it's the Indian " but that theory seems to fly out the window when talking tables .
It stands to reason if a person is use to 4.75 to 5in. pockets with shallow shelfs it is going to take dome getting use to.
You take a young person who never played on a loose table and they learn to be more precise. Most of the young kids that came into our room chose a table for the location not the pocket size. There was a old GC I with 3.75 pockets strictly for the top 1 pocket players but because it was nestled in a corner that is where the kids gravitated to even when told the pockets were impossible.
I stated in another thread I asked a ton of pro's at the US Open back when when they
were still playing on GC IV's their table choice all but 1 said Diamond.
I think a lot of people shark themselves on this subject. Just my opinion.
I think blue label Diamonds with procut pockets are engineered to play about perfect for several days-to a week with new cloth in the setting for a professional event.
After that time, with worn in cloth and sitting in a commercial setting I don’t feel they play all that hot.
After that time, with worn in cloth and sitting in a commercial setting I don’t feel they play all that hot.
Curious where is that place with the 4.25" pockets that play super difficult? Sounds fun!!
KMRUNOUT
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I've played on red and blue label Diamonds and I've never had a problem with the balls
going in the pockets at any speed. Some angles or down the rail have to be hit good
but they will go. I guess if the table isn't set up properly that might be a different story
When the balls don't go in the pocket or they hang up it's because of me and not the table
going in the pockets at any speed. Some angles or down the rail have to be hit good
but they will go. I guess if the table isn't set up properly that might be a different story
When the balls don't go in the pocket or they hang up it's because of me and not the table
I agree with this. New cloth allows you to hit the balls softer and the balls will slide in when they scrape the rail at pocket speed and will topple in over the shelf if hit reasonably well.
Fast forward a few months and you've got a beast of a table on your hand.
I don't mind them as I've been playing on them for 15 years now, but they are brutal. It changes the game. Instead of making one hard shot to gain control of the table and then just smoothing through the rack and staying reasonably in line, you will be tested to run out repeatedly. You will have 2-3 shots that even if you land on them pretty well they will make you take a deep breath and come with a clean hit. Meanwhile if your speed is even a touch off you will be in trouble. Too thick and you will have to add speed to your next shot to move the cue ball, and if you're shooting down the side rail that can be a serious challenge. Too thin and it's surprisingly tough to make shots that look like they should be routine. When you're in dead stroke you can run out like they are normal tables, but when you're struggling even a little they can flat knock you out.
Meanwhile you end up passing on certain shots you might normally shoot at, playing more defense, etc. The pace of play slows down a bit both because the shots require more attention and because there are more innings on average. And unlike the pros using magic racks on new cloth, if you're racking with a wooden triangle on worn cloth the balls don't just float open and hang on the side pockets. You have to fade 9-10 balls on the table with clusters and balls on rails and tough transitions.
Again, I'm used to it. I can grind hard, and it doesn't bother me to play 'poorly' at times because I know how that game translates when I compete on bar boxes or pro conditioned 9 footers. But it's definitely not the place to try for a high run in 14.1!
Imo, if Diamond reduced the flare of the corner pockets to 139* from 141*, a lot less people would be complaining .
Tell WPA to screw their specs.
Tell WPA to screw their specs.
How do I know if these tables are RED label vs. BLUE label Diamonds. I do not play one pocket, but any other game is just pure torture on these tables- 14.1 is just plain unrealistic, I can run 50s all day on a standard GC and cannot run 25 on these tables, even once. these must be the old tables (RED?) as pocketing balls with reasonable speed needed to break out a solid rack is nearly impossible- the ball rejection factor just ruins the game's enjoyment IMO. I cannot see moving back and forth between these tables and any other model as the banking is COMPLETELY different- these Diamonds bank close to one full diamond short of a GC - it would mess up one's game to move between table models for consistent play. I am abandoning this room except for an occasional visit - so now they lost a frequent customer, will play at less desirable rooms, just because of these Diamonds- too bad. After 50 years of consistent good play, I know when I hit a ball "right" and to watch those shots get rejected is just not my idea of a good time - life can be challenging enough, hobbies should be an outlet with a degree of challenge that at least appears attainable - not so with this table set up. I have several family members who will visit me in Florida on occasion and they are decent players - NOT visiting this room with them either, they would NOT enjoy the time that was supposed to be spent having some fun.
No question, the pockets on Diamond's do play easier when the pros play their events on them, with newly installed Simonis, as opposed to most poolrooms where the Simonis on the Diamond's is a few months to a year or older worn in - making the pockets play considerably tougher. In what other sport do the amateurs have to play on tougher conditions than the pros? Can you imagine amateurs playing on a tougher golf course with tougher conditions than what is set up for a major tour event such as the Masters or the US Open?
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Sounds like the old red-label. They banked shorter than a GC for sure. I've never seen balls being rejected to the degree you describe. You can catch a "little" green goin' in but not much. You can definitely wipe-ur-feet more on a GC.
You can come to our room, Family Billiards in Boone, NC, and sample our 10-foot table with 4-3/8" corner pockets, or our toughest 9-foot table with 4-1/8" corner pockets. If you like to play 14.1, if you can somehow manage to run 42 balls (3 racks) on either one, that is easily the equivalent of a 100+ ball run on a Gold Crown with standard cut pockets.
Hey Gar - Any idea how you DO tell a red from a blue label Diamond? Is it a tag on the rail somewhere? Or somewhere underneath? Or do you simply have to reply on whoever's running the counter.... "Oh, yeah, that there Diamond's an orange label. Errr... green label. Uhhh... purple. Ehhrmmm... what color you lookin' for, there champ?"
The "Diamond" label on the rail is red. Kinda that simple. New ones are blue. I think the blues came-out around 2010. There are a few black labels but that was just a vanity option. You could/can get the newer models with a black label if that's what tripped-ur-trigger. Once they reduced downward angle of the cushion tops they banked just fine. Old ones can be modified by a good mechanic.Hey Gar - Any idea how you DO tell a red from a blue label Diamond? Is it a tag on the rail somewhere? Or somewhere underneath? Or do you simply have to reply on whoever's running the counter.... "Oh, yeah, that there Diamond's an orange label. Errr... green label. Uhhh... purple. Ehhrmmm... what color you lookin' for, there champ?"
Your observations are spot on. The pocket angles are not correct on Blue label. Happened on my Diamond table until corrected. Experienced and saw same thing at Griffs in Las Vegas and spoke about it with several other top players who experienced pocket rattle on well hit balls. I’m a bit amazed the issue has not been adressed at the factory level. Having said that I like Diamond and their tables overall.
I've never heard of problems with pocket angles. The angle i referred to is on the rails. The top of the cushion was at too steep of a downward angle, causing them to bank short. What was the pocket problem? IIRC they've always had same pocket angles.
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drewdownkali@ao
New member
Sounds like you need to step your game up. You can actually make balls down the rail no problem, even hitting the rail before going in (which I hate).
My experience has been that playing 14.1 on Diamond tables is a much tougher proposition than on a GC. I run 50+ on a Diamond and want to pop a bottle of champagne.
And, as the cloth ages, the pockets become even tougher, to the point that you described. I believe that as time passes there are also likely to be issues with the one-piece slate sagging and creating problems keeping the table level.
In general, I would also have to say that the Diamonds do bank shorter and as another poster mentioned, there are banks available on a Diamond that don’t exist on a GC.
My general feeling is that tougher tables are good for competitive pool but seriously bad news for those folks that just want to go out, socialize, maybe have a few drinks and enjoy a few yuks. The average guy who thought he was Minnesota Fats on his parent’s 8 footer in the basement is not going to have much success showing off for his girl friend on tough equipment and is likely to get discouraged and not return.
Having said all that, I do like Diamond tables but they are not without their issues.
Lou Figueroa