Difference in Nickel/Dime tip radius

[Patrick Johnson]

I've always wondered why the tip isn't shaped with the same radius as the ball is round.

The miscue limit on the ball is about 30 degrees from centerball. In order to hit 30 degrees offcenter and not hit right on the sharp edge of your tip, you need a tip with at least 30 degrees of arc per side (60 degrees total). A curve with the radius of a nickel or dime will include 60 degrees of arc in about 3/8-1/2 inch of width (the width of cue tips), so that's the range of curvatures that works to effectively match tip and ball surfaces.

pj
chgo

 

[ceebee]

I'll draw something up with AutoCad to check this out. I use a nickel radius on my Play Cue & larger radius on my Break Cue.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I'll draw something up with AutoCad to check this out. I use a nickel radius on my Play Cue & larger radius on my Break Cue.

Here's a drawing I've posted before about this:



Here's the thread it's from:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=3582689&highlight=here's+a+drawing#post3582689

pj
chgo

 

[Jdale]

I've always wondered why the tip isn't shaped with the same radius as the ball is round. The balls don't have a problem with that radius against each other... maybe the cue ball wouldn't mind that radius either.... have to go check that out...

I've always shaped my cue tips to the radius of the cue ball, gives me the largest contact patch possible between the CB & tip. Been working for me for a long long time now.
Dale

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I've always shaped my cue tips to the radius of the cue ball, gives me the largest contact patch possible between the CB & tip. Been working for me for a long long time now.
Dale

If your tip is the same radius as the ball then their surfaces only match until the tip offset from CB center is 1/2 tip width (~1/4"). Everything past that must be hit with the edge of the tip.

You're right that tip curvature matters (at least a little) - it just doesn't need fixing. The common nickel-dime curvatures are already about right for the tips we use.

pj
chgo

 

[jgobigred]

I like to shape mine like the pointy end of a football! Makes it very precise! I'm looking into having a pencil sharpener made to sharpen my tips at this diameter, I think it will revolutionize the game. Works even better on an ld shaft, makes it so you can't miss even if you try!

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Actually you can't put a dime radius on a 13mm shaft, but I am not going to argue the point, if that's what you think fine.

Actually, a dime is just over 18mm in diameter. Therefore you most certainly CAN put a dime radius on a 13mm shaft. I wouldn't argue the point either :wink:

KMRUNOUT

 

[Patrick Johnson]

The common nickel-dime curvatures are already about right for the tips we use.

This is because common nickel-dime tip curvatures are pretty well matched to the total range of available CB surface (up to the miscue limit). A flatter tip reduces the amount of the CB's surface the tip can "reach" (without hitting on its edge).

However, within that reduced range a flatter tip offers a couple of potential advantages:

1. it's a little less sensitive to sidespin errors

2. it allows a little more fine-tuned sidespin control

Both of these are because a flatter tip must move farther to the side in order to contact the same offcenter spot on the CB.

pj
chgo

 

[dr_dave]

This is because common nickel-dime tip curvatures are pretty well matched to the total range of available CB surface (up to the miscue limit). A flatter tip reduces the amount of the CB's surface the tip can "reach" (without hitting on its edge).

However, within that reduced range a flatter tip offers a couple of potential advantages:

1. it's a little less sensitive to sidespin errors

2. it allows a little more fine-tuned sidespin control

Both of these are because a flatter tip must move farther to the side in order to contact the same offcenter spot on the CB.

Excellent post. If people want additional info on this topic, it can be found here:

cue tip size and shape resource page​

Regards,
Dave

 

[mortuarymike-nv]

nice research

This is because common nickel-dime tip curvatures are pretty well matched to the total range of available CB surface (up to the miscue limit). A flatter tip reduces the amount of the CB's surface the tip can "reach" (without hitting on its edge).

However, within that reduced range a flatter tip offers a couple of potential advantages:

1. it's a little less sensitive to sidespin errors

2. it allows a little more fine-tuned sidespin control

Both of these are because a flatter tip must move farther to the side in order to contact the same offcenter spot on the CB.

pj
chgo

Nice research . very easy to understand.
MMike

 

[peter_gunn]

I use dime radius only because when i use nickel ... for couple days of play tip shapes itself into dime.

 

[joelpope]

I use dime radius only because when i use nickel ... for couple days of play tip shapes itself into dime.

Actually, the reverse happens

If you shape a tip to dime and play for a week or so you will be shooting with a nickel radius

Hitting leather against a harder surface does not increase its radius angle, it tends to flatten it. Hitting a flatter nickel against a cue ball a few hundres times will not make it rounder to approximate a dime radius.

 

[TheBook]

Five cents.

.

 

[jay helfert]

I put a nickel on a dime and got a quarter!

 

[ENGLISH!]

Dime vs nickle reply

What is better then the other and why do you think that?? Thanks

AD

This may sound crazy. I play with English! on vitually every shot & I prefer a some what thick soft tip that is only rounded on the edges. Think about it. You are actually talking about the circumference. The curved line based on a certain length radius. The shorter the radius the more curved the circumference. When shooting on the 'edge' of the cue ball with my flat rounded edge tip, the curved part hittting the ball is probably based on the radius of maybe one fourth of an inch or less. I have much more of a curve hitting the curve of the cue ball, not the sharp angle of a dime radius based circumference that abrupty stops & then angles straight down to the ferrule. I just beat a pretty good bar player yesterday with a stick he made fun of because it was so warped that the tip rose more the an inch when he rolled it, but... it had a 'good' thick tip that had not been
'shaped' except for some wear on the edges. As I said it may sound crazy but U may want to try it the next time U re-tip before you shape your tip to a nickle or a dime. But like someone said earlier, it's what ever works for YOU, not me or anyone else. You've got to find your own way. Like Ben Hogan said you have to dig it out of the ground, or in this case the chalk. Good luck with it.

 

[peter_gunn]

Actually, the reverse happens

If you shape a tip to dime and play for a week or so you will be shooting with a nickel radius

Hitting leather against a harder surface does not increase its radius angle, it tends to flatten it. Hitting a flatter nickel against a cue ball a few hundres times will not make it rounder to approximate a dime radius.

Not with every player Joel. Most of them flatten the tip. Some don't :thumbup:

 

[joewag2]

This may sound crazy. I play with English! on vitually every shot & I prefer a some what thick soft tip that is only rounded on the edges. Think about it. You are actually talking about the circumference. The curved line based on a certain length radius. The shorter the radius the more curved the circumference. When shooting on the 'edge' of the cue ball with my flat rounded edge tip, the curved part hittting the ball is probably based on the radius of maybe one fourth of an inch or less. I have much more of a curve hitting the curve of the cue ball, not the sharp angle of a dime radius based circumference that abrupty stops & then angles straight down to the ferrule. I just beat a pretty good bar player yesterday with a stick he made fun of because it was so warped that the tip rose more the an inch when he rolled it, but... it had a 'good' thick tip that had not been
'shaped' except for some wear on the edges. As I said it may sound crazy but U may want to try it the next time U re-tip before you shape your tip to a nickle or a dime. But like someone said earlier, it's what ever works for YOU, not me or anyone else. You've got to find your own way. Like Ben Hogan said you have to dig it out of the ground, or in this case the chalk. Good luck with it.

Can you post a pic please? Also what tip are you using?

I'm courious. I play with an 11.75 OB Classic and Kamui Blk Hard tip. FWIW I heard a little while back that the pros were starting to use a flatter tip. I took it FWIW but after reading ur post,... what the heck,.. I have a cue lathe and some LePro & Triangle tips. I'll give it a try and see what happens!

Sent from my SCH-I400 using Tapatalk 2

 

[joelpope]

Not with every player Joel. Most of them flatten the tip. Some don't :thumbup:

Very well may be, I just haven't experienced or seen it.

Typically when i put a nickel or dime tool on a tip that hasn't been shaped for a while you will remove tip leather material from the outer edge and not touch the center, even if I used the same tool on the same tip previously

An extreme example of this is the mushrooming you find on softer tips when newly installed

If you have seen tips get rounder after use then I'll accept that

 

[sawtex]

Could one say that the smaller sharper shaft and tip be less forgiving than the larger flatter in regard to unintended throw?

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Could one say that the smaller sharper shaft and tip be less forgiving than the larger flatter in regard to unintended throw?

The tip has nothing to do with throw, which is the OB's direction being changed. And the tip's sensitivity to unintended CB spin (not OB throw) is affected by its curvature, not by it's width.

But of course you can say whatever you want. People do it on here all the time.

pj
chgo