Discriminating against non-drinkers?

Donny Lutz said:
My point (I started this thread), was not that alcohol is evil or that pool owners shouldn't try to make a profit. I've seen owners actually tell non-drinkers that they didn't want their business. I've got this weird idea that if you treat people equally and fairly, you will probably succeed at business.
One owner says he wants to get more people in during the day so it looks busy when you walk by. Makes sense. But then he won't give free time during the day, even though the place is almost empty for the first five hours. "Most of those people who come in for free pool don't drink!" he argued. Most? If you have twenty people playing for free and only 6-8 are drinking, isn't that still better than having the tables empty?
So why not just give free time (for league members at least) when the place is empty? Customers appreciate such things and will spread the word. More business!

Donny L
BCA/ACS Instructor
Gainesville, Fl
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I think I understand now. You are upset because you want free table time.
 
I get great service from the places where I am known...m sometimes this takes a number of trips to a place, but $2 tips for a glass of water and $5 for a bottle of water that cost $1.50, that keeps everybody happy.

I dont drink and never have, so the bartenders and owners might not know me at first, but when they see the special attention that the wait staff gives me, they always make thier way over to me to small talk, trying to find out who I am.

So tip a little for any service, tip every now and then for no reason and you will get it back down the road....,

I now get free water, I still tip for it..., I have the wait staff bringing me games.., I give them a jelly and it all balances out..,

Good luck, good shooting
 
Any billiards establishment that would ask a patron to leave because they are not 'drinking' is a place I would not frequent.

Due to health issues I can not drink alcohol, but it does not mean I do not like to hang out in bars, because lets face it, that's were the pool tables are.

Being a good tipper myself, I have never been asked to leave a bar for not drinking. I have however been asked to leave a few places when I was much younger due to over indulging in the sauce.
 
I don't drink and I have not been treated differently in any of the rooms in Albuquerque. I do, however, tip for good service.
:p
 
I don't drink and have never really felt the owners cared. Most of the guys in the 9 foot room are fairly serious about their game, and most do not drink. The owners treat us just as good, if not better, than the drinkers that usually stay in the 8 foot rooms. We do tip well, and play fairly often, but for the most part, we don't drink alcohol. I do go to a pool hall, not a bar. There is a big difference. I haven't been to a bar in over 20 years and don't plan on going to one anytime soon, but that is just my personaly preference.
 
Donny Lutz said:
I've been around the pool business, playing, teaching and managing, for over 56 years. Also was a bowling instructor for 12 years. I fully understand that alcohol is a big part of the pool and bowling businesses.
But there are many of us who can't drink alcohol for health reasons, are re-covering alcoholics, or choose not to drink when competing seriously. In general, we are treated by most proprietors as anathema to their business. We do spend money on other things such as league and tournament play, cues, cases, etc. We are not in any way a hindrance to the sport.

Yet I see proprietors giving free pool, merchandise discounts, etc., to the heavy drinkers, while giving nothing to those who'd rather have a soda or a juice. They may as well put a sign on the front door saying, "Non-alcohol drinkers not welcome!"


Donny L
BCA/ACS Instructor
Gainesville, Fl
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I've never seen anything like this.
 
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There was a strip club in our area that was violating the rules of the liquor license. They were told that they would lose their license if they didn't clean up their act. They lost their license but didn't close as the liquor commision thought they would have to do by taking away the license.

They started to sell coffee, tea, soda and etc for rediculous prices along with the cover charge. But they allowed the women to do whatever they wanted. Business was booming because of the freedoms that the females had. Eventually the local laws and ordinances shut them down.

I don't see where selling one or the other should make any difference. The margin should still be the same.



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Great posts, and I can see both sides of the fence easily.

Here is something to think about. In Canada anyway where the purchase of alcohol is controlled by the Government and there is little discount if any for buying in bulk.

There is not a seriously high profit margin in beer. Hard liquor, 26 shots at $5.25 is pretty good.

Way more profit in soda syrup and CO2 for sodas.

The hall that I play at does have tap water available in a jug on the bar.
If I were to suddenly become a non beer drinker, I wouldn't have a problem paying $2 for a bottle of water.

I don't think anyone should have a problem paying for a bottle of water.

If you're that tight, your a ss squeaks, maybe you should stay at home and save those pennies for your funeral.
 
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I think a lot of people who open Pool Rooms, Pool Bars, and Bars in general are ROMANTICS. They think it would be so COOL to be the owner of a Pool Room, Pool Bar, or Bar because they saw all the money going in the till of their favorite Pool Room, Pool Bar, or Bar.

Many of these folks have no Business Sense, and thus after a few months, a year or two of having their DREAM Pool Room, Pool Bar, or Bar they find out the truth that making a profit in one of these businesses is a tough nut.

I recall a conversation with the Owner of what I thought was a Pool Room Gold Mine in So. Cal., I ask why you selling your Gold Mine.

He explained the TRUTH, and how parts of his inventory always on hand was EXTRA BATHROOM MIRRORS, EXTRA TOILET SEATS, and Lot of EXTRA BATH ROOM COLORED PAINT.

Seemed it was part of the fun of ownership always replacing the Bathroom Mirrors that were Scratched, or Burned with Muriatic Acid to Graffiti the Bathroom Mirrors. The Toilet Seat got the Same Graffiti with Sharp Objects. The Bathroom were constantly being either REPAINTED, or Touched Up after the Local Graffiti Artists did their thing.

Funny thing was no one ever saw the Vandals at work, be they were constantly Working in the Bathroom of his Pool Room on their Graffiti Art.:angry:

His Room did not sell any Alcohol, so it had to survive on Pool, Sales of Snacks & Soft Drinks.
 
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CocoboloCowboy said:
I think a lot of people who open Pool Rooms, Pool Bars, and Bars in general are ROMANTICS. They think it would be so COOL to be the owner of a Pool Room, Pool Bar, or Bar because they saw all the money going in the till of their favorite Pool Room, Pool Bar, or Bar.

Many of these folks have no Business Sense, and thus after a few months, a year or two of having their DREAM Pool Room, Pool Bar, or Bar they find out the truth that making a profit in one of these businesses is a tough nut.

I recall a conversation with the Owner of what I thought was a Pool Room Gold Mine in So. Cal., I ask why you selling your Gold Mine.

He explained the TRUTH, and how parts of his inventory always on hand was EXTRA BATHROOM MIRRORS, EXTRA TOILET SEATS, and Lot of EXTRA BATH ROOM COLORED PAINT.

Seemed it was part of the fun of ownership always replacing the Bathroom Mirrors that were Scratched, or Burned with Muriatic Acid to Graffiti the Bathroom Mirrors. The Toilet Seat got the Same Graffiti with Sharp Objects. The Bathroom were constantly being either REPAINTED, or Touched Up after the Local Graffiti Artists did their thing.

Funny thing was no one ever saw the Vandals at work, be they were constantly Working in the Bathroom of his Pool Room on their Graffiti Art.:angry:

His Room did not sell any Alcohol, so it had to survive on Pool, Sales of Snake & Soft Drinks.
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I wish they offered snake drinks where I play. ;)
 
Do I have to wear a pink shirt when I am POOF reading?

And graffiti in a bathroom, unheard of.

Here I sit lonely hearted
Paid a dime and only farted

Yesterday I took a chance
Saved my dime and s hit my pants

I love cold beer and pool. If I were to walk into a hall where I couldn't have both, I would have to leave. Pretty much the same as if I walk into a bar
with no table, I leave. They go hand in hand for me.

I can also understand if someone wants to focus on the game and not have alcohol interfere with it. Along with people that can't have alcohol because of medical reasons.

There are people that just don't like alcohol. Nothing wrong with that. There are many things I don't like as well. Beer just isn't one of them.
 
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I really find discriminating against non-drinkers to be in bad taste....but very often a pool table is just there to support the primary business....selling alcohol.


But with that said...I always prefer my opponents drink as much as possible....and bring cash...... :thumbup:
 
i dont drink at all but i always wondered how i would play after two drinks
 
TheBook said:
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There was a strip club in our area that was violating the rules of the liquor license. They were told that they would lose their license if they didn't clean up their act. They lost their license but didn't close as the liquor commision thought they would have to do by taking away the license.

They started to sell coffee, tea, soda and etc for rediculous prices along with the cover charge. But they allowed the women to do whatever they wanted. Business was booming because of the freedoms that the females had. Eventually the local laws and ordinances shut them down.

I don't see where selling one or the other should make any difference. The margin should still be the same.



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That's because the main attraction is the women. The customers are willing to put up with soda and coffee, because they're there for the ladies. They can make money, because in many places the going rate for a lap dance is $20, and the house gets a cut. That's $20 for a 3-5 minute "table" dance or whatever they call it in your locale. Who pays $20 for 3 minutes on a pool table?


Most pool rooms cannot survive with the main attraction and revenue generator being POOL. At least not with current pricing on table time. The fact is, the liquor sales are subsidizing pool so to speak.

That said, pool isn't worthless. It's still an attraction, but modern pool room business is symbiotic with liquor. They both need one another as a team package because if all one wanted to do was drink and nothing else, then they'd just go to a plain bar and not have to listen or see pool being played. Although, I would guess that liquor outweighs pool as more important to survival. Again, each customer values each in a different proportion so it varies.

On paper - meaning their books, a pool room really looks like a huge bar with pool tables. To everyone else, it's a pool room with a bar. A club is nothing more than a bar selling liquor to people who happen to like loud music, lights and dancing. A pool room is nothing more than a bar, selling liquor to people who happen to like pool. Same thing. They're just different vehicles for appealing to people who want to drink while doing something, other than just drink.
 
I use to worked for the RV Supply Outfit in the late 60's, the owner was a sharp business man. He said we survive on numbers. He knew that traffic = profits, and was a real number nut. He said over the year in business he had figured out that each person coming in the store = "X" in retail Sales Work, or Service Work. He say every person as a Dollar Sign be they a customer for a $.25 Part, or High Dollar A/C Unit with installation. The Business was in the 60's the place in Los Angeles County for RV Accessories, and Service, and it was a GOLD MINE. Not sure if it is still there, but back when I was working there let say our monthly sales bonuses offset all the long hours we worked.
 
It is a very "slippery slope" once you start to "give" things away (pool table time etc...). When I see poolrooms/bars start offering "specials" like...buy 2 drinks and play for free, or $5 play all day, Tuesdays FREE POOL etc..etc.. It is normally a sign that the business is on it's knees. With "costs" skyrocketing (i.e. rent, insurance, electric, gas, licenses, taxes, taxes and more TAXES etc..) it is very tough to keep a business open in 2012. Remember unlike your average business that passes increased costs on to the consumer, a pool room owner CAN NOT adjust rates every time his operation costs increase. Think about it...Your local pool room did not have 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011 rates (for pool table time). If you own a pool room you might be able to increase rates every 4-5 years (and then by only $1 an hour or so). So as much as I think we (as owners) should use our heads with "increases" in prices...It is not anywhere as EASY as it looks. I (as a pool room owner) should provide well maintained and serviced equipment, good food, reasonably priced liquor (if you drink) and a safe, clean and comfortable environment for you to play. YOU (as a customer) should expect service (and discounts) predicated on the amount of MONEY you spend in the place on a weekly (or monthly) basis. Of course there is a standard level of service that all customers receive, but if I'm going to "give away" something...I'm much more likely to give it to a guy that spends $300 a week in the place vs. $11 a week. THAT IS BUSINESS. So when you suggest things like FREE TABLE TIME for league players on Tuesdays. That is NOT a problem "IF" I see you on the other days of the week (as a paying customer). But if I offer that and I only see you on Tuesdays...well whats the point?? I discount my prices depending on how much somebody spends in my place.
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
Another Reason to not count on Spell Check, if you are a POOR POOF READR. So as I said, and stand corrected. so it had to survive on Pool, Sales of Snacks & Soft Drinks.
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Don't type so fast and check before you post, that'll do it;)
 
Red Shoes said:
... Remember unlike your average business that passes increased costs on to the consumer, a pool room owner CAN NOT adjust rates every time his operation costs increase. Think about it...Your local pool room did not have 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011 rates (for pool table time)...
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, pool is not a commodity, it's a luxury. So anytime the prices of a 'luxury' are raised, the consumer will always question whether or not the cost-to-value ratio is justified.

The cost of gas, produce, toys, and everything else has risen, and nobody thinks twice. Start charging for water at the poolhall, and now the perception is that the room owner is trying to screw everyone.

I'd venture that if you eat a meal at most of these establishments, the water will be free. Room owners aren't stupid, either.
 
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