disgraceful is what it is!!!!
- Thread starter Grady
- Start date
Jude Rosenstock said:
Jude,
I do not know anyone on the so called " committee" for the event. Also, I could careless of their process. And if you know someone on the "committee" than ask them. Don't be afraid. It's not like they are going to tell you anyways and if they do, would they tell you the truth? Look, if a person has a history of not getting along with person(s) in control of events (ex. Charilie Williams, the UPA or anyone else hosting men's pro events) do you, Jude, think that that person(s) are going to be apart of those events? Most likly not.
JustPlay said:
That's fine. You don't have to know anyone or care about them. That's cool. That wasn't my point. My point is that we shouldn't make assuptions. All of the people involved here are out to make things better for pool. That's the end goal. I just don't see a need to create negative stories. You might be right. What you said might entirely be true. However, it might not be but it could still be damaging.
JAM said:
Once again you play the victim. Anytime someone disagrees with you, it's the same old schtick.
First, you're not racist. But that thread certainly showed you are strongly prejudiced and bigoted against other nations (not their races). Why would you want to bring that up again?
Second, what "tag team" are you referring to? You often whine that people tag team you, or follow you around the forum to attack you. Newsflash: It's a small forum, and you post a lot. Many of your posts are strongly opinionated (which is fine) but you get nasty when someone disagrees with you.
Drama always ensues. I guess you just like drama.
You might not like the posts from corvette or others, as they don't agree with you, but they never referred to you as a "monkey" or other childish remarks.
shinobi said:
The only reply to any of my posts I recall from you is when I was being labeled a racist. The next time I read a post from you, it is in this thread.
shinobi said:
I disagree with your opinion, and if you think "monkey" is childish, it is mild compared to being labeled a "racist," which I found incredibly insulting and antagonistic.
For your information, I am not a "bigot" or a "nationalist" either. I find that remark in very poor taste.
JAM
wayne said:
JAM attacking w/o cause?!
JAM vicious and unrelenting at 120 wpm?!
JAM calling someone a "Sucker Punching Monkey" just because they disagree with her?!
JAM being more than a bit paranoid accusing others of secret PMs and tag-teaming?!
JAM calling in the mods for relief?!
JAM threating to take her ball home?!
Shocked. Just shocked I say.
Lou Figueroa
one of the original
(not Davey, Michael, Peter, or Micky)
monkeys
Wow! What a thread.
To be honest, though, despite all the controversial, and occasonally harsh, posts found herein, most of what's been written makes a lot of sense. Here in these AZB parts, most of us are very passionate about our sport and the shape of its future, and most of us have something useful to add to the analysis of American pro pool's past, present and future.
As we've seen, we're not all on the same page as to how things have been done or should be done when it comes to the planning for and administration of American pro pool events, and that's OK.
Still, here in the world of pro pool, there are certain economic realities with which we must all come to grips, the first of which is that the blind application of economic principles to the American pro pool proudct is an iffy proposition in and of itself.
In most sectors of the economy, there is adequate supply and as new suppliers enter, those least capable of delivering the product in a way that meets the needs of consumers are driven out, leaving supply right where it should be. The absence of those suppliers lost, at least in theory, does no damage to the economic sector.
Contrastingly, for products where supply is insufficient, suppliers are not only more important, but they, predictably, exert more power over the delivery of the product. Tempting as it may be to drive imperfect suppliers away, it is impractical to do so, because it would make things worse, as the instantaneous emergence of alternative suppliers cannot be counted on.
The American pro pool tournament is, sadly, an example of a product where supply is insufficient. It is for this reason that I find the feduing among the many producers and would-be producers of pro pool events so dispiriting. The economic realities of our sport demand that we encourage every supplier of American pro pool events.
Why make it all so personal? Producers of American pro pool are in short supply, and every single one of them is precious, and worthy of being treated as such by others who truly care about American pro pool and its future.
To be honest, though, despite all the controversial, and occasonally harsh, posts found herein, most of what's been written makes a lot of sense. Here in these AZB parts, most of us are very passionate about our sport and the shape of its future, and most of us have something useful to add to the analysis of American pro pool's past, present and future.
As we've seen, we're not all on the same page as to how things have been done or should be done when it comes to the planning for and administration of American pro pool events, and that's OK.
Still, here in the world of pro pool, there are certain economic realities with which we must all come to grips, the first of which is that the blind application of economic principles to the American pro pool proudct is an iffy proposition in and of itself.
In most sectors of the economy, there is adequate supply and as new suppliers enter, those least capable of delivering the product in a way that meets the needs of consumers are driven out, leaving supply right where it should be. The absence of those suppliers lost, at least in theory, does no damage to the economic sector.
Contrastingly, for products where supply is insufficient, suppliers are not only more important, but they, predictably, exert more power over the delivery of the product. Tempting as it may be to drive imperfect suppliers away, it is impractical to do so, because it would make things worse, as the instantaneous emergence of alternative suppliers cannot be counted on.
The American pro pool tournament is, sadly, an example of a product where supply is insufficient. It is for this reason that I find the feduing among the many producers and would-be producers of pro pool events so dispiriting. The economic realities of our sport demand that we encourage every supplier of American pro pool events.
Why make it all so personal? Producers of American pro pool are in short supply, and every single one of them is precious, and worthy of being treated as such by others who truly care about American pro pool and its future.
A famous New York Senator and economist named Herbert Lehman said it best: "I must respect the opinions of others, even if I disagree with them."
Many people lack that. It is EXTREMELY tough to do.
If you are unable to respect the opinions of other people, then you will never be able to learn. I have very strong convictions and opinions, but I try to look at the thoughts and opinions of others so that I can better myself as a person. I became a whole lot wiser when I figured out that I really didnt know that much!
Many people lack that. It is EXTREMELY tough to do.
If you are unable to respect the opinions of other people, then you will never be able to learn. I have very strong convictions and opinions, but I try to look at the thoughts and opinions of others so that I can better myself as a person. I became a whole lot wiser when I figured out that I really didnt know that much!
Why don't we all do something fun?
Let's all give cuetechasaurus good rep and erase his red bars.
Let's all give cuetechasaurus good rep and erase his red bars.
SJM,
Great post. I disagree on part of your economic theory however. In the large scale, I believe that the demand is what is low and that is driving the sport down. There is little or no demand to publicize pool therefore there is no supply of tournaments. Once again I have to revert back to my belief that the general American public does not demand pool like pool players want them too. What we need to do is figure out a way to increase that demand...when the demand goes up, then the supply automatically goes up. Its called the law of supply and demand.
As quantity demanded increases,
Quantity supplied increases.
We do agree, however, that something needs to change. The pool community needs to figure out a BUSINESS MODEL!
Great post. I disagree on part of your economic theory however. In the large scale, I believe that the demand is what is low and that is driving the sport down. There is little or no demand to publicize pool therefore there is no supply of tournaments. Once again I have to revert back to my belief that the general American public does not demand pool like pool players want them too. What we need to do is figure out a way to increase that demand...when the demand goes up, then the supply automatically goes up. Its called the law of supply and demand.
As quantity demanded increases,
Quantity supplied increases.
We do agree, however, that something needs to change. The pool community needs to figure out a BUSINESS MODEL!
bomber said:
The demand I'm referring to is the demand of professional players for pro pool tournaments. The supply of American pro pool tournaments is in short supply when considered from that vantage point.
The demand for pro pool among the fans, that's another topic for another thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by allprobilliards
What you are suggessting would take a tremendous amount of work.
From what I can see Dragon Promotions are doing alot of work in the sport organzing events.
Everyone here justs sits on the computer and talks about events and what should be done, can be done,etc.
Actions speak a heckuva lot louder than words.
We can all conjecture and criticize as much as we want here, and we probably spend hundreds of hours here really accomplishing nothing for the sport and affecting very few.
On the other hand, its people like Charlie Williams, Cindy Lee & Dragon Promotions that are impacting the sport and growing it globally.
Originally Posted by jay helfert
Thanks for posting this. Take it from one who has been there and done that, it ain't easy to produce an event. Much harder than it looks.
Try finding a good location with suitable dates available at a reasonable price. Try finding the necessary sponsorship monies/backing to stage the event. Try putting together the advertising/p.r. campaign to promote the event. Try dealing with all the issues that dozens of pool player will present to you. Try coming up with a tournament structure that will suit everyone. Try finding lodging for all the players at a good rate. Try putting together a competent staff to run the event. Try getting all the necessary licenses and permits to conduct the event. Try arranging for pool tables, seating, exhibitor tables etc. etc.
And there's more! Try doing all the above and making money!
After you've done all this one time, then come back on here and offer your suggestions on how to put on a pool tournament. Trust me when I tell you that producing events like the World 14.1 has to be a labor of love. And then to come on here and see people tearing apart their efforts has to be disappointing to say the least.
I don't know Randy Goldwater all that well, but my hat is off to him. I KNOW that he and his partner worked hard to make this event happen, and probably lost money as well. I've been upside down more than once at the end of a pool tournament.
I'm glad a few people on this forum seem to have some sense.
From what I've seen here, how many of the people have actually produced any kind of event in pool? and then my next question, are they still doing it? or is it a 1st annual and then kaput the next year?
I hear all about Grady's events...but do any of them still exist or ongoing? It seems Dragon Promotion events are ongoing and getting bigger and better.
Hmmm...makes you wonder who the better promoter is.
If I was a sponsor I know I would prefer to stay with a successful promoter in for the long haul.
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Grady I have got all your tapes. Attended your seminars.Attended your matches. But really the only thing I can say is the only thing "disgraceful" is your behaviour about people and the events that dont go your way. Yes you should be accorded special courtesy because of your status. But your continued assinine behavior at various venues are disappointing. After hearing your interview podcast about your statements about how your victories in gambling including winning a woman of an opponents and how Efren doesnt have any gamble it confirms my disgust for you as a human being. You might have won a world championship but like Mike Tyson as soon as you stop behaving like one you have lost all the amenities that go along with it. Grow up will you.
You talk about AccuStats. I wonder why is it that AccuStats no longer asks you to commentate. I think they share the same feelings as I. That something has gone astray. The 3 men you talk about Lassiter, Crane,and Eddie Taylor who you consider your masters. Would they ever behave the way you do?
You talk about AccuStats. I wonder why is it that AccuStats no longer asks you to commentate. I think they share the same feelings as I. That something has gone astray. The 3 men you talk about Lassiter, Crane,and Eddie Taylor who you consider your masters. Would they ever behave the way you do?
allprobilliards said:
In case you haven't heard, there's a Viking tournament next month at Grady's new pool room in South Carolina. Viking is a regional tour here in the States that keeps pool alive and well for players of all caliber. There are no restrictions or hand-picked players. Everyone is welcome.
allprobilliards said:
Bigger and better in Korea, that's so true. I'm so happy to see pool thriving in Korea. That really gives me hope.
There's no question in my mind who the better promoter is.
allprobilliards said:
Me, too. I do like a level playing field where all players are treated equal.
Thanks for the excellent insights!
JAM
There are many people who have made "sacrifices" for pool and many over "7 years". But they save their complaints to the one in their life that they are making the sacrifice for. We dont want to hear it. I for one dont care if you share your pics, or your war stories, etc if you are going to wear some kind of authority over me.
First the UPA have given us some fabulous pool and some fabulous pool memories. That I thank them for. I dont care what they call their tournaments or who they invite. I have all the DVD's from last years tournament and I am perfectly happy with them. They are giving pool a shot in the arm where its needed. 14.1. Straight Pool. Who else is doing it with great international players.
And I dont care if they are American, Canadians, Asians, Europeans, or Fijians. They are presenting some great matches with great American presentation as well. Where else can a guy like Danny Barouty a world class 14.1 player get the exposure outside of the NY scene?
This is BS brought up by one guy who has only his personal ego and interest at heart.
First the UPA have given us some fabulous pool and some fabulous pool memories. That I thank them for. I dont care what they call their tournaments or who they invite. I have all the DVD's from last years tournament and I am perfectly happy with them. They are giving pool a shot in the arm where its needed. 14.1. Straight Pool. Who else is doing it with great international players.
And I dont care if they are American, Canadians, Asians, Europeans, or Fijians. They are presenting some great matches with great American presentation as well. Where else can a guy like Danny Barouty a world class 14.1 player get the exposure outside of the NY scene?
This is BS brought up by one guy who has only his personal ego and interest at heart.
sjm said:
I hate it. The voice of reason. Stu, are you trying to ruin everything? Don't you ever feel like kicking sand on everybody?
I loved the part where someone said how did Stu get in. I wish I could have seen your face when you read that one. One time I won the Local and finished second in the Regionals to get an all expense paid trip to the World Series Of Tavern Pool.
When I got there a well known bar table player asked me "What are you doing here?" That comment really teed me off and I won five matches in a row to make the final 64 from over 1,400 starters. I saw him later on the sidelines and asked him how he did. He knew I was still in and wouldn't answer me. That non response was my reward, more so than the $900 I won.
I didn't respond back then, but I will now. SJM EARNED HIS SPOT THE HARD WAY. HE WON IT!!!
sjm said:
U can use that vantage point but that doesn't look at the whole picture or take the whole situation in consideration. The big picture of pools supply N demand is lots different than U tried to describe it.
In UR xample, `supply drives demand` and it's the other way around.
Brian
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