Do gamblers increase the revenue to Pool Hall owners?

vagabond

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is purely a business focussed question.
Some pool halls are known to attract the high roller gamblers on the green felt.Then the routines follow such as collection of rail birds around the table etc.etc.

Don`t forget to include the loss of the table time on the table that is next to the table of action. I rarely hear the gamblers renting the table next to the action but they demand that the table next to it should not be given to anybody.

does any one have any stats to show that there was increased sales of beverages because of these gambling activity?
Does any one have any stats to show that the staff went home that day with more money from the tips?
Does any one have any stats to show that the gambling activity attracted new clientele that rented the tables in the room?
Does any one have any stats to show that these gamblers attracted/brought any new pretty girls to the pool room? this can definitely increase the business because lots of 19-25 year old guys will start coming to the pool room
If you are a room owner you need to reevaluate your business Plan.:cool:
 
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Matt_24

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I know at the pool room I attend when their is action - the pool room makes money. They hardly make anything on table time. They make their money on liquor and food.

When there is good action going, there is a much larger crowd (besides their regular bar action) during the day...which results in lots of booze and food purchased..plus the waitresses love it because they are tipped well. I tip them well anyhow, but if there are "big" gamblers in the room they seem to always tip well too from what I've seen. Action definitely does a pool room GOOD!
 

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my heros.
Silver Member
When I was young and the Ponies were running at Santa Anita, and or hollywood Park a lot of Road Player came to the LA AREA. North Hollywood Billiards was on the way home from work, and if it was past 11 PM sometime I would stop and watch the action. Most of the paying player also paid their bill, and watched. Think it wa both good and bad for the place, as the owner use to say. Thinks will return to normal when the Ponies stop running!
 

3andstop

Focus
Silver Member
I'll offer my take on this if I may. This is based on what I'll call "players". Anyone can gamble at pool, but I'm speaking of the "A" level and above players.

I did own a room and obviously from the standpoint of table time vs time the players hung around, no they don't increase revenue. But in the long run, I believe those interested in getting better are drawn to rooms where the players hang out, and those are the folks who put in many hours of table time, buy sticks, food, drink etc, and come back every single night.

The people who come in for half an hour, bang a dozen balls into the rails and leave don't even have a clue the players are there, and they are not influenced one way or the other by them.

So, I feel the players bring in the added dimension of sparking the interest in new players and therefore do increase revenue and help insure longevity of the business. Catering to the player, IMO will help generate future business in that respect.

As far as that table you spoke of next to the players, let it be known right up front, you will keep that table empty for them, until the room fills. Then they can be the first to rent it. Or, you can fill it whenever possible with "B" players as you see fit. In either case, you are not going to loose money on that one table. Two people fixated on the players action from the bleachers ( so to speak) will more likely drink and eat more than that table can make you in an hour anyway.

Now, if you want a jukebox blaring ridiculously loud obnoxious noise, people drinking like fish out of water, people sitting on tables telling stories with drinks in their hands, food being carted from table to table by waitresses, then you may have to rephrase your question, because that's not what I call a poolhall, that's a nightclub with pool tables, and a night club with pool tables might make more money than a pool hall.
 

vasilios

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
3andstop pretty much nailed it for the average room.there are some acceptions out there but not to many.size of the room will change some things but not that much.a room operator has to be careful when he does tounys so his regular bangers dont get stepped on.

bill
 

vagabond

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'll offer my take on this if I may. This is based on what I'll call "players". Anyone can gamble at pool, but I'm speaking of the "A" level and above players.

I did own a room and obviously from the standpoint of table time vs time the players hung around, no they don't increase revenue. But in the long run, I believe those interested in getting better are drawn to rooms where the players hang out, and those are the folks who put in many hours of table time, buy sticks, food, drink etc, and come back every single night.

The people who come in for half an hour, bang a dozen balls into the rails and leave don't even have a clue the players are there, and they are not influenced one way or the other by them.

So, I feel the players bring in the added dimension of sparking the interest in new players and therefore do increase revenue and help insure longevity of the business. Catering to the player, IMO will help generate future business in that respect.

As far as that table you spoke of next to the players, let it be known right up front, you will keep that table empty for them, until the room fills. Then they can be the first to rent it. Or, you can fill it whenever possible with "B" players as you see fit. In either case, you are not going to loose money on that one table. Two people fixated on the players action from the bleachers ( so to speak) will more likely drink and eat more than that table can make you in an hour anyway.

Now, if you want a jukebox blaring ridiculously loud obnoxious noise, people drinking like fish out of water, people sitting on tables telling stories with drinks in their hands, food being carted from table to table by waitresses, then you may have to rephrase your question, because that's not what I call a poolhall, that's a nightclub with pool tables, and a night club with pool tables might make more money than a pool hall.


It is good to know that 'action and action players ' do help improve the revenues to the owner of the pool room and the waiting staff.
 

backplaying

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I spent over 300.00 last week in one poolroom on just table time not counting the tips, and I gamble.
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
When I own a poolroom I never turn down any business, unless it is undesirable elements. I've had gamblers play for many hours and run up big bills (at $10/hr.) on just one table. And sometimes the sweaters will match up and take their own table. The gamblers can be part of a regular crowd who come in on a day to day basis. This helps keep the room from looking empty and can add revenue early in the day (while they practice) when most tables are not being used.

I would estimate that the serious pool players (gamblers) may make up 15-20% of my total business. A smaller share of the revenue but still significant enough that I want to keep them coming in every day if possible. They might make my bottom line an extra $300-500 per week. And that ain't chopped liver! :D
 
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Mr. Bond

Orbis Non Sufficit
Gold Member
Silver Member
This is purely a business focussed question.
Some pool halls are known to attract the high roller gamblers on the green felt.Then the routines follow such as collection of rail birds around the table etc.etc.

Don`t forget to include the loss of the table time on the table that is next to the table of action. I rarely hear the gamblers renting the table next to the action but they demand that the table next to it should not be given to anybody.

does any one have any stats to show that there was increased sales of beverages because of these gambling activity?
Does any one have any stats to show that the staff went home that day with more money from the tips?
Does any one have any stats to show that the gambling activity attracted new clientele that rented the tables in the room?
Does any one have any stats to show that these gamblers attracted/brought any new pretty girls to the pool room? this can definitely increase the business because lots of 19-25 year old guys will start coming to the pool room
If you are a room owner you need to reevaluate your business Plan.:cool:

I don't know this for a fact, but it seems like it would be hard to get actual gambling stats, since it's basically illegal. And who would want to admit to benefitting from illegal gambling? :ignore: LOL

IMO the benefits of 'allowing' gambling depend on the extent of the gambling.
Is it a good thing to let the players play? Sure, why not.
Do you want to give people something to see? Sure, why not.
But do you want the room to develop an unsavory reputation?
(which is bad for you, the community and the industry)
Do you want to condone turf wars?
Do you want to be fined by the authorities?
No, not really.

The clever business person will take advantage of the fact that the players are there dollar wise (cough cough hint hint) - but at the same time, not shoot themselves in the foot, so to speak, by allowing things to go south.

It's kinda like the liquor sales anomily. As a bar owner you want to sell as much as you can, because it pays the bills. But you don't want to sell too much, or it will come back to bite you on the arse, in the form of bar fights, broken stuff, barf on the floor and lawsuits.
 

The Saw

Juicy Pop in 2016!
Silver Member
Yes. Action does a lot for a poolroom.

#1- A crowd draws a crowd. Cars in the parking lot draw a lot of people in that would not stop if it was empty. People want to be where the action is, even if they are oblivious to the gambling.

#2- When I ran Cornfeds the first thing I did was tell Bartram, Dee Adkins, Corey, and Howard they had free table time, free pop, a free meal when ever they were in. Chris was already a regular but the rest became regulars really quick. Then a ton of the customers we had that would come in a couple times a week or even a month seen how good those guys played and wanted to get better. Next thing you knew they were buying cues and were every day regulars. This is one thing most owners don't get.... They try to get full retail or close to it out of a cue. Thats okay when its an easy sell but what I used to do was let the customer pick their poison. Say the cue is $200 and I have $100 in it. I wouild tell the person, "It sells for 200 but f it what do you want to pay? Don't insult my intelligence... And this offer is good for today and today only.". They would generally come back with 140-160. By letting them name their price on a today only offer I would say sold when they would say 150. The room makes 50 on the sale but more importantly I've just put a cue in someones hand that they didn't have before. Before they had a cue they would just randomly say "Hey lets go play pool." Now every time they're at home and see the cue and feel obligated to go to the poolroom and get their moneys worth out of it....

#3- People are fascinated with other people gambling. Beav99 on here is a prime example.... He got hooked on pool when Chris, Dee, and Corey were around every day and there was action all over the place. People have a hard time leaving in the middle of a gambling match they're watching and usually stay til the end. It doesn't matter if they are spending a bunch, it all goes back to the crowd draws a crowd thing. The big spenders are the club hoppers that want to be where other people are.....
 

ironman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is purely a business focussed question.
Some pool halls are known to attract the high roller gamblers on the green felt.Then the routines follow such as collection of rail birds around the table etc.etc.

Don`t forget to include the loss of the table time on the table that is next to the table of action. I rarely hear the gamblers renting the table next to the action but they demand that the table next to it should not be given to anybody.

does any one have any stats to show that there was increased sales of beverages because of these gambling activity?
Does any one have any stats to show that the staff went home that day with more money from the tips?
Does any one have any stats to show that the gambling activity attracted new clientele that rented the tables in the room?
Does any one have any stats to show that these gamblers attracted/brought any new pretty girls to the pool room? this can definitely increase the business because lots of 19-25 year old guys will start coming to the pool room
If you are a room owner you need to reevaluate your business Plan.:cool:

The pool rooms today are different than past years. Today they are clubs with pool tables and I believe the players are adjusting to that.
I doubt most owners care about the action and do pay little attention to it.
The legal thing? The cops really could care less in most places and not very anxious to pay any attention to it.
I honestly feel that most pool room owners today can't see 3 feet past the bar anyway.
 

rossaroni

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I think it all depends on the pool room. The answer could be yes or no I guess. I know of a local pool room, that has a full bar, restaurant, dj some nights, etc. There is very little action. It would probably decrease their revenue if all the gambling started coming around. It also depends on the players. Some of them drink a lot and are good for business. However, we all know players who will not spend a dime, and drink water. This pool room is better off having 3-4 bangers on every table.

There is another pool room close to the same area. It does not have a bar and has limited food. It is rarely busy now, but was not always the case. In the past, there were 1-2 gamblers who played pretty bad, and didn't really care about the money. Besides pool games, there were card games, craps games, etc. Non pool players would come in just for the action, and this was good for business. Now one of the bigger gamblers is locked up, and many of the people never even come around anymore.:( Honestly, I go to the other place more now, because of the bar and the scenery is much better.:)
 

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No matter how they do things or what they do these top players spend money in the poolroom.

Plus they help to create a aura to the place. A little misteake. They motivate some of the other players to get better and how do you get better by practicing.By playing each other.

I had a club for 12 years. The action was good. There was always someone stopping in to find a game at all levels. They knew this was the place to go if you wanted to find a game.

Plus when there was a road player in town they would come after me and we'd play in my place. The bar would be packed and it would become an event.

You show me a place that has lots of action and I'll show you a place that is thriving even today.

You can put tables in a gerbage dump and have free pool and nobody will come. You got something going on all the time and players will come in steady.

Of course you need to form leagues and have tournament but this all goes together to form a little world right there.

It needs to be a place to go that you can forget about everything else except one thing.

POOL.....POOL....POOL......
 

Gerry

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I worked in a few rooms, and they varied from new "chain" places to the old school hard core smoke filled rooms of the glorified past. Nothing.....I say again NOTHING brings people in like ACTION.

If you all know the feeling of putting your hand on the door of the pool room and you just KNOW.......something is going on......there is action going on. The parking lot is full, coffee is on, and you are trying to get the best seat to watch the battle. A funny part is walking from the front door past the action tables.....you desperately don't want to disturb the combatents so your not sure when to walk by....or walk along the wall....and you don't want to wait til the game is over to get in the loop :)

Working behind the counter is the best place. The players come to you for the best table, the betting line on who they are matching up with, a quick shape on the tip, ***** about how they are dogging, or to clean up a shaft.

The next job of the counter guy is to call everyone to let them know the action is is ON! and if there is an out of town guy looking to play...it is my job to call around to see if he's been playing elsewhere. Maybe the most important job was to divert the phone calls from wives and girlfriends. EVERY time the phone rang you would hear from 5 guys.....if thats my wife, I'm not here.....you room owners know that line!

I was lucky enough to work in a room that would move small action off a table to "upgrade" to a higher stakes game!.....good times.

From the talk of "is" it going to happen....to the hours of play, to answering phone calls, to calling off work dog tired the next day, to catching everyone up days later.........................action is the most fun thing about pool rooms!


G.
 

RyanTheImpaler

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Former Pool Hall Bartender

I think it all depends on the pool room. /QUOTE]



Rossaroni hit that one directly square. I worked in a small pool hall in Rockford, IL that had 7, 7-foot diamond tables. Action was slim. When there was action, sales didn't change. Maybe it was the facility that turned people off. Maybe it was just the people. But if I worked at a hall that dedicated every ounce of being to the players, and the players returned consistently with fistfuls of dollars, then there may be a difference shown. It's all about where you are and who you are with.

Ryan
 

LAlouie

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is purely a business focussed question.
Some pool halls are known to attract the high roller gamblers on the green felt.Then the routines follow such as collection of rail birds around the table etc.etc.

Don`t forget to include the loss of the table time on the table that is next to the table of action. I rarely hear the gamblers renting the table next to the action but they demand that the table next to it should not be given to anybody.

does any one have any stats to show that there was increased sales of beverages because of these gambling activity?
Does any one have any stats to show that the staff went home that day with more money from the tips?
Does any one have any stats to show that the gambling activity attracted new clientele that rented the tables in the room?
Does any one have any stats to show that these gamblers attracted/brought any new pretty girls to the pool room? this can definitely increase the business because lots of 19-25 year old guys will start coming to the pool room
If you are a room owner you need to reevaluate your business Plan.:cool:

There are better ways to improve room economics. Gamblers and railbirds don't buy any more than your typical patron. Railbirds from other areas come in, watch the match, gamble, and go home. Besides, you'll never have enough games to make significant monies. If your goal is to run an upscale room, focus on those customers you want to reach because they are the ones who will provide your income.

If you focus on the gambling hard core patrons, then you will be running your room with a typical pool player mentality, and that's a losing kind of business model.
 

gunzby

My light saber is LD
Silver Member
I would say that they do. When you have action, you have railbirds and action typically breeds more action. When you have more people in a bar it also usually brings even more people in to see what's going on.

I'm not so certain the gamblers by themselves increase the revenue, but the domino effect of more people coming in certainly does.

I've been in pool halls with dirt floors and ones with old rickety board floors with holes, but both of em had money games so both of em had a lot more people in there than you would expect in a dump like that. Those people were either drinking and watching, or playing and drinking.

*edit* I will also agree with the above post. Treat the gambling aspect as not even one quarter of the patrons. There are a slew of regulars that don't gamble one bit, but come in every day to have a beer and shoot an hour or two.
 
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catpool9

"Rack Um"/ Rusty Lock
Silver Member
Cars N Crowds

Yes. Action does a lot for a poolroom.

#1- A crowd draws a crowd. Cars in the parking lot draw a lot of people in that would not stop if it was empty. People want to be where the action is, even if they are oblivious to the gambling.

#2- When I ran Cornfeds the first thing I did was tell Bartram, Dee Adkins, Corey, and Howard they had free table time, free pop, a free meal when ever they were in. Chris was already a regular but the rest became regulars really quick. Then a ton of the customers we had that would come in a couple times a week or even a month seen how good those guys played and wanted to get better. Next thing you knew they were buying cues and were every day regulars. This is one thing most owners don't get.... They try to get full retail or close to it out of a cue. Thats okay when its an easy sell but what I used to do was let the customer pick their poison. Say the cue is $200 and I have $100 in it. I wouild tell the person, "It sells for 200 but f it what do you want to pay? Don't insult my intelligence... And this offer is good for today and today only.". They would generally come back with 140-160. By letting them name their price on a today only offer I would say sold when they would say 150. The room makes 50 on the sale but more importantly I've just put a cue in someones hand that they didn't have before. Before they had a cue they would just randomly say "Hey lets go play pool." Now every time they're at home and see the cue and feel obligated to go to the poolroom and get their moneys worth out of it....

#3- People are fascinated with other people gambling. Beav99 on here is a prime example.... He got hooked on pool when Chris, Dee, and Corey were around every day and there was action all over the place. People have a hard time leaving in the middle of a gambling match they're watching and usually stay til the end. It doesn't matter if they are spending a bunch, it all goes back to the crowd draws a crowd thing. The big spenders are the club hoppers that want to be where other people are.....



My brother Calvin used to own a poolroom called the Ace Ball out in Odessa,Texas back in the 70's, he had three old cars that he parked around the poolroom which he moved around from day to day, people would stop to see what was going on, before you knew it, he had a crowd , ..........like you say, a crowd draws a crowd!


David Harcrow
 

ridinda9

AKA: Sandy Bagger
Silver Member
This is purely a business focussed question.
Some pool halls are known to attract the high roller gamblers on the green felt.Then the routines follow such as collection of rail birds around the table etc.etc.

Don`t forget to include the loss of the table time on the table that is next to the table of action. I rarely hear the gamblers renting the table next to the action but they demand that the table next to it should not be given to anybody.

does any one have any stats to show that there was increased sales of beverages because of these gambling activity?
Does any one have any stats to show that the staff went home that day with more money from the tips?
Does any one have any stats to show that the gambling activity attracted new clientele that rented the tables in the room?
Does any one have any stats to show that these gamblers attracted/brought any new pretty girls to the pool room? this can definitely increase the business because lots of 19-25 year old guys will start coming to the pool room
If you are a room owner you need to reevaluate your business Plan.:cool:

"no bar , no pinball machines , no bowling alleys , just pool... nothing else. This is Ames , Mister."
Most pool halls veer away from this original business model now by adding a bar , but aside from that . . .
1) when there's hot action , it draws railbirds , & railbirds do drink & tip.
2)Gentleman gamblers , after large wins , usually tip the staff quite well, because a) they want to be welcomed back b) it helps to have the staff on your side if things get rocky
3)Get enough hot action in the room , and people are drawn in . You become the hot room , and you're where people want to be , and they rent tables.
4) You want pretty 19-25 year old girls ? Bring some with you .

Otherwise , like another poster pointed out , you have a nightclub , not a poolroom. Might as well hire a jazz combo and cigarette girls .
 
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