Do you enjoy watching pool on tables with tight pockets?

[dabarbr]

I was a referee at the Hard Times tournament and had conversations with many of the top players from out of town. Many expressed their feelings about how tight the tables were, and they were talking about the looser tables in the tournament room. I thought to myself if they think those tables were hard wail until they get a match on the two front tables that we are discussing.

Most of the good local players have mentally adjusted to the tables that are 4.25" but most still have difficulty with tables 1 and 6. Those two tables get the majority of the one pocket games played there.

The tables on the other side of the wall are used in tournaments for the first few rounds until the tournament can be moved to the tighter tables. Those tables on the other side of the wall are inconsistent in pocket size and rails.

IMO, the finals could have easily gone the other way. In the finals SVB won the first game broke well in the opportunities he had but never had a shot after the break. Orcollo was using the same break, pocketing the second ball in the side and positioning for the one. The difference was that he mostly always had a shot on the one ball.

Credit goes to Orcollo for making that tight table look easy. He took control of that table and never looked back. His concentration was so good that when he won the last game he was ready to rack and play some more. He had to be told that he had won already.

 

[Scott Lee]

They also move the cup each day, so the pros have a tougher time "figuring out" the 'roll' of the greens!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

In golf they may not shrink the hole but they play from the pro tees.

 

[Okie]

Basketball is a team sport that is interactive with your opponent so no change in the court is required versus what you play on in gym class.

In golf they may not shrink the hole but they play from the pro tees. On top of being longer, the entire course is toughened up from what it is for normal play and even tougher still for the major championships. If you think the PGA professionals are playing on the same golf course the rest of us play on, you must not have played golf on a course before and after it is set up for a PGA tour event.

While the PGA does set it up tougher than what the average Joe would play on, they do not set it up as difficult as they could. During the 1988 PGA Championship they took steps to make the golf course easier than normal. Oaktree GC has never played as easy as it did for them that week. I speak of it only because I have first hand knowledge.

Now the USGA and the Royal and Ancient set up a course to test the ability of the best players in the world. That's why the players complain so much during those events. The winners usually just bear down and take the cheese from the whiners.

Kinda like when the pockets get tight eh?

 

[alstl]

While the PGA does set it up tougher than what the average Joe would play on, they do not set it up as difficult as they could. During the 1988 PGA Championship they took steps to make the golf course easier than normal. Oaktree GC has never played as easy as it did for them that week. I speak of it only because I have first hand knowledge.

Now the USGA and the Royal and Ancient set up a course to test the ability of the best players in the world. That's why the players complain so much during those events. The winners usually just bear down and take the cheese from the whiners.

Kinda like when the pockets get tight eh?[/QUOTE

When I watch golf on television I see the crowd roar approval when a golfer makes a good putt. I understand why the PGA doesn't put a tiny cup on the green so the players will look like idiots missing lot of putts. The fans prefer to see the players succeed.

 

[Okie]

When I watch golf on television I see the crowd roar approval when a golfer makes a good putt. I understand why the PGA doesn't put a tiny cup on the green so the players will look like idiots missing lot of putts. The fans prefer to see the players succeed.

I always felt the sponsors wanted to see birdies. But the fans seemed to be more entranced by the drama created by a player having to overcome himself, his opponent, and the course. The silence of suspense is more valuable than the roar after the result is revealed...imo

 

[Celtic]

The theory seems to be that some top pros have like an extra 5% accuracy when they 'bear down' vs. other top pros, and their tiny extra bit of superhuman accuracy proves Player A is better than Player B. Like tight tables separate the men from the boys.

I think the truth is, both players have normal human eyes and coordination, and have both put in tens of thousands of hours, and on some days Shane might rattle fewer balls than Dennis, and on other days Dennis rattles fewer than Shane. There is no super breed of pro who controls where the object ball goes to within a half inch, vs. someone else's 3/4".

I think that is a load of BS and is proved entirely wrong by Snooker where the top pros DO tend to win against the guys lower in the rankings with fairly decent consistency. Sure they do not win "every" match, but guys like Hendry in his prime was winning alot more then his share, it was not just back and forth "who is having an off day" as you are attempting to suggest.

Dennis vs SVB is also a match between two pretty high level guys. Take Dennis OR SVB and put them up against the lower ranked pros on those tight tables and that is whre you really start to see the difference in skill, and there IS a difference in skill.

Standard cut Diamond pockets suck for pro pool. They might be really tough for you to shoot on but they are far too easy for the professional rank tournaments to be decided on.

 

[Celtic]

The TAR match between Hundal and Dominguez was a good example of how bad even world class players can look on really tough equipment.

I disagree. I think that TAR match showed how people we think might be world class might actually have more weaknesses in their game then we realize that have been masked by the easy equipment over the years.

 

[OUSooner]

That's either the dumbest thing I've read in a while or the most misinformed. Oak Tree played way tougher leading up to the Championship and the Senior. In 88 the moved the tees back on several boxes and even played a few par 5's as 4's. The Senior was the exact same. The rough was cut way longer, the greens way shorter and lots of bare patches members played to in the rough were filled in. Pros should play on tougher equipment. On Valley bar boxes most 9 speeds look like pros. Not the case on a tight 9 foot or even most pro cut bar boxes.. Just the same is most scratch golfers look the same @ Hefner as pros do @ Karsten.

While the PGA does set it up tougher than what the average Joe would play on, they do not set it up as difficult as they could. During the 1988 PGA Championship they took steps to make the golf course easier than normal. Oaktree GC has never played as easy as it did for them that week. I speak of it only because I have first hand knowledge.



Now the USGA and the Royal and Ancient set up a course to test the ability of the best players in the world. That's why the players complain so much during those events. The winners usually just bear down and take the cheese from the whiners.



Kinda like when the pockets get tight eh?

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[Island Drive]

Pagulayan made the pockets look buckets in the previous hard times tournament too.
If pros are struggling in these tables means only two things: or they had a bad day or they are not at the same level of other players.

''Only two things''....How do come up with such a definitive answer?

How about it was raining, or damp, nothing effects play or tightens up pockets more than this variable. Also, as the crowds increase and gather around the final table, just the humdity from peoples bodies greatly affects play and humidity, add in more dirt to the play surface from the week, and the rail noses and play surface conditions change GREATLY.
I've even seen room owners goof with the thermostat for various reasons.
I'm not trying to pick on you, but your above statement is Wrong, pool is Not that simple.

 

[Masayoshi]

''Only two things''....How do come up with such a definitive answer?

How about it was raining, or damp, nothing effects play or tightens up pockets more than this variable. Also, as the crowds increase and gather around the final table, just the humdity from peoples bodies greatly affects play and humidity, add in more dirt to the play surface from the week, and the rail noses and play surface conditions change GREATLY.
I've even seen room owners goof with the thermostat for various reasons.
I'm not trying to pick on you, but your above statement is Wrong, pool is Not that simple.

Imho, if you can't adjust to those conditions, but Dennis Orcullo can, you simply aren't as good as Dennis Orcullo

 

[Slh]

''Only two things''....How do come up with such a definitive answer?

How about it was raining, or damp, nothing effects play or tightens up pockets more than this variable. Also, as the crowds increase and gather around the final table, just the humdity from peoples bodies greatly affects play and humidity, add in more dirt to the play surface from the week, and the rail noses and play surface conditions change GREATLY.
I've even seen room owners goof with the thermostat for various reasons.
I'm not trying to pick on you, but your above statement is Wrong, pool is Not that simple.

Mine are not definitive answer, every post I make is subjective.
As Masayoshi said "if you can't adjust to those conditions, but Dennis Orcullo can, you simply aren't as good as Dennis Orcullo".

 

[Renaud]

Bellflower very tight tables were great

Clearly you are having a hard times running a few racks of 10 balls on a "4". I played there more than 23hours in a week (only money matches or tournament) during vacation and participated to the 10 ball event. It makes you go for the little extra thing. Once you have adjusted to the two tightest tables at the front (smooth stroke, dead center, proper speed) then it is clearly the same. You play a bit more defense and focus more on cue ball control too. All in all the better player will prevail, I would not recommend to go tighter than "4" but Orcullo played easy most of the times and make me feel the tables were just "normal". I think it is a great equalizer for pro and should protect the best from randomness. Makes you feel a bit relief too when u see Busti or Sambajon missing 10 balls, u realize they are mere mortals too

 

[Celtic]

Imho, if you can't adjust to those conditions, but Dennis Orcullo can, you simply aren't as good as Dennis Orcullo

Pretty much bang on.

 

[Island Drive]

Mine are not definitive answer, every post I make is subjective.
As Masayoshi said "if you can't adjust to those conditions, but Dennis Orcullo can, you simply aren't as good as Dennis Orcullo".

Subjective;

I ''had'' a very close friend for many years (13) and during Many converstations this person had allot to say and was well informed, but once that person had taken a position on a side to the conversation and realized they were wrong, they always used the below expression.

I was only kidding.

That above expression unraveled our friendship, it was way more than Subjective after that, it was reality.

 

[Slh]

Subjective;

So anytime you said its ONLY this or that your kinda meaning it also could be a whole nother herd of this or that. I knew this person whoused to converse in such a manner that once they realized they could be incorrect, they responded.

I was only kidding.


I'm sure its my perception of the way you express & the way I process your dialogue on the keyboard that I have difficulty. I am not even close to JAM when it comes to writing. I just tend to prefer (''literally'') what someone says is true 100%. To always have an SUBJECTIVE out is waaaaaaaaay different than the way I was brought up.

the thing is most of the time I realize my knowledge of english is not good enough to correctly explain what I meant to say and I have to use different words. This often results in sentences which are not quite what I meant to say. However I'm trying to improve :thumbup:
I admit in the previous post there was some degree of objectivity. *For me* if you can't play on a table and the other guy can, you are not as good as him, or you are having an off day.
To be honest I'm thinking you are picking every my post and painstakingly commenting it. This happened on the Orcullo's espn article too.
Are you pissed at me because of my post on the stolen cue some week ago? Just curiosity.