Do you use stun run-through?

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
Yes, that's correct. I did a video of the shot for a friend once....it's here:

The randomized grab bag of terms people apply to everything pool makes crap so confusing.

If I say 'drag draw shot' to someone, wherein that do they know that the CB actually rolls forward after contact..? 'Drag' implies back spin, and 'draw' implies backward motion after OB contact.

Over in the instructor's subforum, someone referred to the above as a 'kill shot'. Which flies in the face of the adjective as well. Guess the idea is the 'kill' is only meant as a means to describe what happens to the applied velocity, and not what ends up happening after OB contact.

In my world, a 'kill' shot is a CB hit with just enough pace and back spin, wherein the CB slows down on it's way to the OB and during OB contact the CB has no forward roll, this manifests the same as a 'stop shot'. ...But then what is a 'stop shot'...?..., well the same thing but struck a such a pace that there's no apparent loss of velocity.

The above video example, is a 'kill / follow'. You 'killing' the pace with the applied back spin, but is there still remains enough distance for the CB to pick up forward roll.

The problem is we have the same shot performed in the same fashion, called many things based on whim of the shooter.

My intention isn't pick on the poster of the video. It's just the recent example of why this game gets so confusing for those trying to listen...lol
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
I'll spot the world's leading physicist 9 games in a race to 11. Knowledge of physics and playing ability aren't necessarily related.
Knowledge and ability aren't necessarily unrelated - knowledge makes experience/practice more effective.

pj
chgo
 

SBC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Magic is simply something that can't be readily explained by the viewer. Much like this is just you not understanding what's happening to the CB when you hit this shot
Right...
Where do you apply to be in the AZB nut huggers club?
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
Right...
Where do you apply to be in the AZB nut huggers club?
your mom's house...? ;)

If you don't understand what's actually going on when you think you're stunning through an OB there's nothing wrong with that. It's been explained already, and slow mo video examples have been posted. You personal don't have the ability to bend the laws of physics. Take a moment and digest it...

Just because you presumably hit the center of the CB when shooting, doesn't mean you hit a stun shot by the time it reached the OB.
 
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BC21

Poolology
Gold Member
Silver Member
The randomized grab bag of terms people apply to everything pool makes crap so confusing.

If I say 'drag draw shot' to someone, wherein that do they know that the CB actually rolls forward after contact..? 'Drag' implies back spin, and 'draw' implies backward motion after OB contact.

Over in the instructor's subforum, someone referred to the above as a 'kill shot'. Which flies in the face of the adjective as well. Guess the idea is the 'kill' is only meant as a means to describe what happens to the applied velocity, and not what ends up happening after OB contact.

In my world, a 'kill' shot is a CB hit with just enough pace and back spin, wherein the CB slows down on it's way to the OB and during OB contact the CB has no forward roll, this manifests the same as a 'stop shot'. ...But then what is a 'stop shot'...?..., well the same thing but struck a such a pace that there's no apparent loss of velocity.

The above video example, is a 'kill / follow'. You 'killing' the pace with the applied back spin, but is there still remains enough distance for the CB to pick up forward roll.

The problem is we have the same shot performed in the same fashion, called many things based on whim of the shooter.

My intention isn't pick on the poster of the video. It's just the recent example of why this game gets so confusing for those trying to listen...lol

Yeah, I should've just labeled it...."Drag Shot using Backspin".

"Draw" is a common word that often takes the place of "backspin". A drag shot can utilize a stun stroke or a draw stroke, so I simply clarified that one must use draw (backspin) to do the shot I was showing.

But I agree it makes more sense to use the word "draw" when talking about the cb action after it contacts the ob. It's just not strictly used for that purpose though. It's like slang....doesn't matter what the literal meaning is because everyone knows the intended meaning. In most places, you can tell a person to use a tip of draw and they will understand that you are saying to hit low or use backspin on the cb.

Not sure if it's possible to get all pool players using the same vocabulary for every shot, but it's a good goal I suppose.
 

easy-e

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yeah, I should've just labeled it...."Drag Shot using Backspin".

"Draw" is a common word that often takes the place of "backspin". A drag shot can utilize a stun stroke or a draw stroke, so I simply clarified that one must use draw (backspin) to do the shot I was showing.

But I agree it makes more sense to use the word "draw" when talking about the cb action after it contacts the ob. It's just not strictly used for that purpose though. It's like slang....doesn't matter what the literal meaning is because everyone knows the intended meaning. In most places, you can tell a person to use a tip of draw and they will understand that you are saying to hit low or use backspin on the cb.

Not sure if it's possible to get all pool players using the same vocabulary for every shot, but it's a good goal I suppose.
HAHA! We can't even all agree on the rules! :D:D:D
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Here is cigar demo shot. Everybody can try it on their own if they think i somehow setup or shoot it wrong. It is straight in and draw back.
It's fairly well known that on a power draw shot the cue ball goes through very slightly. It's probably in Coriolis' book (1835). I don't think that was being disputed.

The cue ball goes through a few mm either because it is slightly off the table when it hits the OB or because it is slightly heavier than the object ball or because the balls are not perfectly elastic.

I think with a soft stop shot the cue ball will go through a lot less.
 

SBC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
your mom's house...? ;)

If you don't understand what's actually going on when you think you're stunning through an OB there's nothing wrong with that. It's been explained already, and slow mo video examples have been posted. You personal don't have the ability to bend the laws of physics. Take a moment and digest it...

Just because you presumably hit the center of the CB when shooting, doesn't mean you hit a stun shot by the time it reached the OB.
Yeah I broke and ran 7 pack of 9, 12 of 8 on a bar box and 168 in straight pool by not understanding....
 

Nick B

This is gonna hurt
Silver Member
Weird Science!
1618490780156.png
 

SBC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's fairly well known that on a power draw shot the cue ball goes through very slightly. It's probably in Coriolis' book (1835). I don't think that was being disputed.

The cue ball goes through a few mm either because it is slightly off the table when it hits the OB or because it is slightly heavier than the object ball or because the balls are not perfectly elastic.

I think with a soft stop shot the cue ball will go through a lot less.
The cueball goes forward because of a loss of friction with the table and forward momentum of the cueball.

Same as on the shot I described hit center ball, hard, from distance on a basically straight in shoot. It isn't from topspin or forward roll from the table priction. There's more to cue ball control than just spinning the rock, the velocity of the shot is part of it as well.
 

Poolmanis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's fairly well known that on a power draw shot the cue ball goes through very slightly. It's probably in Coriolis' book (1835). I don't think that was being disputed.

The cue ball goes through a few mm either because it is slightly off the table when it hits the OB or because it is slightly heavier than the object ball or because the balls are not perfectly elastic.

I think with a soft stop shot the cue ball will go through a lot less.
Those balls are Duramith Aramiths and they are exactly same weight though. and draw on that shot was not power draw. Just normal draw shot to bring cue ball back to middle pocket as you can hear on video. That tells i did shoot shot straight in.
Power draw shots forward momentum is a lot more.
I also think this happens because cueball is slightly airborne(can´t be sure reason of why though). Happens a lot of any shot with object ball being closer and using medium/hard speed. As rails are higher than we aim on cueball we always shoot downwards and get little micro jumps.
But main thing what i wanted to point was:
No matter why it happens, it happens. Especially on harder stun shots where cueball is often little bit on air. And many players don´t get cue so level as they should.. it happens even more.
 

Poolmanis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
On my beat my draw challenge the trick for really great result is minimize this forward momentum. If you power it too much to air cueball will go forward more and it will show on end result dramatically. So you kinda need balance power and bounce. Find that sweet combination what gives best result.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
Yeah I broke and ran 7 pack of 9, 12 of 8 on a bar box and 168 in straight pool by not understanding....
Ya but my dad can beat up your dad...

Seriously though... Care to explain how you can bend the laws of physics...? I'm totally fine with being wrong. You just haven't offered up anything to contradict the evidence of how the "stun follow" is produced in reality.
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
I also think this happens because cueball is slightly airborne(can´t be sure reason of why though).
Bingo... No different then why the CB will drift slightly to either side with a stun shot if it doesn't squarely strike the OB. It's the vertical axis in this case.
 
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