Does anyone make people pay off after every game or every set?

You mentioned 'older gentlemen' and therein lies the answer to your question.
With one foot in the grave and the other on a banna peel, they may not live long enough to finish a set. IMHO, of course.
 
My favorite move is taking the guys cue as pawn collateral. If I don't get a call promptly about the money I let it be know that I want out of the gear for x. Generally that will do it.

If we are talking walking around money (less than 100) and I see the guy regularly I will let him owe me. It really screws with their psych. Especially if I don't like the pest.

Want to play...sure throw me the x you owe me and post up 4 sets/games and we are on.
 
I practice with some older gentlemen from time to time when my schedule permits it. The are very big advocates of getting paid after every game and to be honest, I LOVE IT!

Here's why I like it. Say you are playing one pocket for $50/game. Well if all you are doing is moving a coin around the guy who is stuck doesn't feel it as much as he would if the money was already gone.

I also like that playing like this makes people quit. Some people get it stuck in their head that as long as they pay you most of the money it's cool. I know the traditional single air barell gets shot when you bust someone most of the time and that's just a part of pool. You would be sick though if you break even with a guy after having him stuck $400 when he only has a $100 in his pocket.

Wondering how others feel about it? I have already started doing this with some players but I think I am going to extend this policy to all players.

It depends. Generally I like to pay and be paid by the game. But if you are playing people you know and trust then you can play on the wire.

I have had it come back to bite me many times though when I get a guy stuck and he doesn't have the cash.

One of my friends, a known road player, was sweating me playing a guy in Ft. Collins Colorado $100 a game one pocket and I got the guy stuck five games and then gave them all back and he quit me even. My buddy said I should have made him pay each game because then he would have gone off instead of feeling no pressure due to just moving the coin. He also said that I would have respected the value of each game more had we paid by the game.

It's a damn good feeling to have the money in your pocket - it's YOURS at that moment and you want to fight to keep it.

When I was a kid we used to play $1 or $2 a game and I loved coming home at the end of the night with $20-$30 in my pocket in crumpled up dollar bills. I loved pulling these balls of money out my pocket with no idea how much I won and carefully smoothing them out.

I like going into a spot with a certain amount of cash and if I lose then that's it. Gives me a certain edge. I have to confess that ATMs and playing on the wire have caused me to go off for more than I wanted to several times in my life. At one time I raised my limits to $1500 a day just to be able to draw on enough to keep playing if I needed it. Walking in with $500 and no cards forces me to manage my bullets accordingly.

And what you say about busting a guy and him not having the money is so true. I have been aired a lot that way.

One time in Ft. Walton beach Florida someone from Starcade steered me to a bar down the street and I ended up playing a guy who was giving me the 7/8 in 9 ball for $50 a game. We were paying by the game and by the time the bar closed I had him stuck $400. He says we can go down the street to a nightclub and keep playing. The owner of the nightclub is there and says he will open up for us.

So we head down to the spot and in the car I give the steerman 25%. At the club we agree to play $100 a game even. I win the first game and am waiting to get paid and the guy looks at the owner and the owner says to mark that he will make sure I get paid.

So we start marking it and by the time I have to leave at 8am in the morning I am $1800 up and I am spotting him the 7/8. I tell them I have to go because I have borrowed my friend's truck and he needs to get to work. I go to the owner and ask him for the money and he says that he wasn't backing the guy just that he will make sure I get paid. He tells me to give him my address and he will send it to me.

Well you all can guess the end of the story. Of course the money never arrived.

When me and the steer man went outside I asked him what just happened and he said that he thought the owner was backing the guy too.

He said he would try to get the money and I called him a few times but as we already know this was fruitless.

So, yeah pay by the game and get the money unless you have a very good reason to do otherwise.

---------------------------

One of my favorite stories in Cornbread Red's book is when he promised his wife to go and win enough to get a house. He plays Rosie giving up some ridiculous weight and they are playing for $1000 a game. Red has his bullets in $1000 rolls held together with rubber bands. Every time Rosie wins a game they toss him a wad. Rosie does the same and after a while Red's wife complains to him that some of Rosie's bullets are short. Red says don't say anything because he is confident that he is going to win all that Rosie will go off for. At the end if I remember right Red ended up around $18,000 ahead which was enough to put down on the house his wife had picked out.

----------------------------

Another one that sticks out is the Buddy Hall story where he tells of stopping in a bar and playing a pimp for $20 and winning. Buddy beats that pimp and they go get another one who plays a little better and Buddy beats him and so on until they call in a player, Jim Brock, and Buddy busts him and the final total is $25,000 winner for Buddy and his backer. "All started by a pimp chasing a $20 bill" goes the line in the book.
 
That's the situation I run into all the time. It seems that if someone owes you $70, they have $50. If they owe you $120, they have a $100. People are clever nowadays too. They pay you a certain amount and since they owe you $20 they say, hey you just start out one game ahead next time we play. Stuff like that is nonsense.

Plus like I said I want the money each and every time. I don't mind paying each and every time and if I bet I am fully prepared to do so. The people who shoot $100 at a $1000 are usually the most tentative to play like this since they know where there bank stops going in to the game.

Good posts everyone keep going!

How do you like this move. I played a guy in Colorado even who is a couple balls better than me. We play for $10 a game and he gets me stuck ten or so games and I battle back to even and he quits. Then later he borrows $50 from me.

Fast forward a few months and we are at a tournament and he barks at me to play some for $50 a game. I say pay me the $50 you owe me first.

He says, you can start out 1 game ahead.

I was like first pay me the money then I will play. He actually gets PISSED at me that I won't let him play on the wire and runs around to borrow $50 and pays me.

Then I say I will play him after I am out of the tournament. But then I go and spoil it by winning the tournament and by that time he gave up waiting and left.
 
I feel like the people you know "real good" sometimes are the main offender. Paying at a $100 is okay sometimes. I'd rather just get it and post, get it and post. Kind of like you would do in a ring game. In a ring game you dont normally see people keeping track with anything other than money.,

That's right. One time in Germany I played this guy that I knew real well and we had played several times before and I always won a couple hundred after many hours of play. We were a fairly even game although I thought I was a ball better.

This night he goes off for $1300 and all he has on him is a $50 credit for the pool room we were in. This was at a tournament where the lowest places paid in this gift certificates. I took his cues and the gift cert.

We had played for 12 hours and table time was around $100. I got about $400 out of his cues.
 
> With me,it's all about whether or not TRUST has been established.

If I know you fairly well,we can use a coin to keep score. Most of the locals I play against are more of the old school,and only play by the game however.

If you are a total stranger,you're posting.

Because of a recent incident with a hopped-up idiot,even if I know you,but we've never played,you're either posting or showing me you have some cash on you before the balls are broken.

Now,on the chance that I was to meet someone from here on AZ,as long as you've never juked someone on a cue/case deal or an actual bet,it would depend on the amount of the bet.

Most of the people I run into regularly that MIGHT play for a few bucks would be offended if you ask them to post on a 20 dollar game.

The damndest air barrel story I've ever witnessed happened like this.

A guy called Jughead was a regular at The Rack in Memphis. Several of us are kind of standing around and James Christopher looks at Jug and offers to bet him 1.00 that he DOESN'T have 1.00 in his pocket.

Jughead says "Pay up motherf**ker,I got 1.35!" :thumbup:. James pays him,Jughead buys a beer for 1.25,so he has 1.10.

I swear the next guy that walks thru the door was a road player from Arkansas and he approaches us and asks if anyone wants to play some 100 dollar 9-ball. Before any of us can respond,Jughead grabs a house cue and says "hell yeah get your ass up here".

Jughead wins the flip,makes the 9 to win the first game,and gets paid. He then proceeds to play like God for almost 3 hours,and wins another 1700 before the guy pulls up. Tommy D.
 
I practice with some older gentlemen from time to time when my schedule permits it. The are very big advocates of getting paid after every game and to be honest, I LOVE IT!

Here's why I like it. Say you are playing one pocket for $50/game. Well if all you are doing is moving a coin around the guy who is stuck doesn't feel it as much as he would if the money was already gone.

I also like that playing like this makes people quit. Some people get it stuck in their head that as long as they pay you most of the money it's cool. I know the traditional single air barell gets shot when you bust someone most of the time and that's just a part of pool. You would be sick though if you break even with a guy after having him stuck $400 when he only has a $100 in his pocket.

Wondering how others feel about it? I have already started doing this with some players but I think I am going to extend this policy to all players.


it depends on who and how much i'm playing for. anything over 20 gets paid off every game/set
 
I ran out of gas at 8:30PM...by 1AM you should have been winning!

Here is a brutal running out of gas/time story for you.

I offer to play this guy in Germany some rotation with him getting a 15 point spot for $100 a game. We go back and forth for a while until the bet escalates to $600 a game. I was never at any point any games loser.

It's all on the wire and this guy is notorious for going off so I am not sweating getting paid.

At the end of 10 hours I am nine games ahead and it's getting close to closing time.

I have played in this room several times and each time they have turned the lights off promptly at 2am. So I am really getting tired and just trying to stay ahead as much as I can until closing time. 2am comes and they don't close. We are the only table still going. He is winning games back now. 3am the owner is still sitting up front talking to people - no one says a word to us. 4 am he gets even and I pull up.

The time was $140 and I told him that I wouldn't quit but if he got to even then he had to pay the time.

I think that he texted the owner and asked him to stay open because I know they didn't talk directly. I was a dumbass for not stopping and agreeing to play another day.

If we had been paying by the game I would have busted the guy.
 
Yes!

POST, before every set.
PAY after every game.
If you don't, and you get the air-biscuit...it's your own fault.
If playing for $10 a game, I don't mind paying every 2 games, if I know the person....... or if for $1-$3 per game (just practicing) then it's ok to use the coin. But if you are trying to make a score, you have got to POST, and PAY!

AND...I have a question:
IF a guy shoots the "Last game Air-Biscuit" at ya, and you match up with him at a later time...do you make him pay it off first, before you'll play?

BLS
 
I practice with some older gentlemen from time to time when my schedule permits it. The are very big advocates of getting paid after every game and to be honest, I LOVE IT!

Here's why I like it. Say you are playing one pocket for $50/game. Well if all you are doing is moving a coin around the guy who is stuck doesn't feel it as much as he would if the money was already gone.

I also like that playing like this makes people quit. Some people get it stuck in their head that as long as they pay you most of the money it's cool. I know the traditional single air barell gets shot when you bust someone most of the time and that's just a part of pool. You would be sick though if you break even with a guy after having him stuck $400 when he only has a $100 in his pocket.

Wondering how others feel about it? I have already started doing this with some players but I think I am going to extend this policy to all players.

It's the only way to play for money.

The ONLY way.

Stipulated.... up front.

Disagree? Bye bye.

Not playing any "credit" pool.

I don't let pool players run a tab.
 
> With me,it's all about whether or not TRUST has been established.

If I know you fairly well,we can use a coin to keep score. Most of the locals I play against are more of the old school,and only play by the game however.

If you are a total stranger,you're posting.

Because of a recent incident with a hopped-up idiot,even if I know you,but we've never played,you're either posting or showing me you have some cash on you before the balls are broken.

Now,on the chance that I was to meet someone from here on AZ,as long as you've never juked someone on a cue/case deal or an actual bet,it would depend on the amount of the bet.

Most of the people I run into regularly that MIGHT play for a few bucks would be offended if you ask them to post on a 20 dollar game.

The damndest air barrel story I've ever witnessed happened like this.

A guy called Jughead was a regular at The Rack in Memphis. Several of us are kind of standing around and James Christopher looks at Jug and offers to bet him 1.00 that he DOESN'T have 1.00 in his pocket.

Jughead says "Pay up motherf**ker,I got 1.35!" :thumbup:. James pays him,Jughead buys a beer for 1.25,so he has 1.10.

I swear the next guy that walks thru the door was a road player from Arkansas and he approaches us and asks if anyone wants to play some 100 dollar 9-ball. Before any of us can respond,Jughead grabs a house cue and says "hell yeah get your ass up here".

Jughead wins the flip,makes the 9 to win the first game,and gets paid. He then proceeds to play like God for almost 3 hours,and wins another 1700 before the guy pulls up. Tommy D.

These are the guys I'd like to avoid. If the other guy would have won, he wouldnt have won any money and probably would have gotten his ass ran out of the place. If The Rack is still the same as I remember it, guys don't play games in there when it comes to the money.

Here is a brutal running out of gas/time story for you.

I offer to play this guy in Germany some rotation with him getting a 15 point spot for $100 a game. We go back and forth for a while until the bet escalates to $600 a game. I was never at any point any games loser.

It's all on the wire and this guy is notorious for going off so I am not sweating getting paid.

At the end of 10 hours I am nine games ahead and it's getting close to closing time.

I have played in this room several times and each time they have turned the lights off promptly at 2am. So I am really getting tired and just trying to stay ahead as much as I can until closing time. 2am comes and they don't close. We are the only table still going. He is winning games back now. 3am the owner is still sitting up front talking to people - no one says a word to us. 4 am he gets even and I pull up.

The time was $140 and I told him that I wouldn't quit but if he got to even then he had to pay the time.

I think that he texted the owner and asked him to stay open because I know they didn't talk directly. I was a dumbass for not stopping and agreeing to play another day.

If we had been paying by the game I would have busted the guy.

Absolutely would have busted him. There are only a handful of people I have ever met that regularly carry $5k in cash on them. There are some, I'm not one of them, but I do know at least 1 guy that regularly carries that kind of cash.

Get the money first ask questions later!

POST, before every set.
PAY after every game.
If you don't, and you get the air-biscuit...it's your own fault.
If playing for $10 a game, I don't mind paying every 2 games, if I know the person....... or if for $1-$3 per game (just practicing) then it's ok to use the coin. But if you are trying to make a score, you have got to POST, and PAY!

AND...I have a question:
IF a guy shoots the "Last game Air-Biscuit" at ya, and you match up with him at a later time...do you make him pay it off first, before you'll play?

BLS

Say I beat you out of $1100 and you paid $1000 of it and we were playing $100/game. I'm not going to sweat that extra game and if I accept it that night that I didn't get paid that last $100 I can't hold it against you in the future unless that's an agreement we have.

I will say this though about firing that last game air barrell. It's a one shot one time type of deal. You can't continually do it to the same person, one time. I look at it like a walking stick. You probably would throw them $50-$100 anyway to get home, food, hotel room or whatever if you just busted the guy. If they want to use that money to fire another shot than so be it.
It's the only way to play for money.

The ONLY way.

Stipulated.... up front.

Disagree? Bye bye.

Not playing any "credit" pool.

I don't let pool players run a tab.

We should be able to run pool player FICO scores. That would save soooo many headaches. Needs to be some national service that says, MAKE THEM POST!
 
I cover this in my book Lessons in 9 Ball in two different places -

Proper Etiquette

Nothing irritates me more than a guy that plays for money that he doesn't have. Nothing is worse than getting stiffed. I would rather have the guy let me know that he is out of cash when it happens, as opposed to finding it out $200-$400 later. I would rather dismiss the debt than to hunt him down for it. Another thing that irritates me is when someone who can't pay up on Friday, approaches me on Monday wanting to play me so that he can play down his debt. I see many players that do this all of the time. The proper way to handle that situation is to not play the guy until the original debt is paid in full. All cash is due upon the sinking of the money ball. Follow that rule and you'll avoid that problem. Many people don't want to sound like an assshole and figure that the guy will pay them at the end of the session, only to find out that he went bankrupt two sets ago. Players like this can be driven to extinction if the above rules are followed.


and we revisit the topic again -


Sharks, Stiffs, & Crybabies

I elaborated on stiffs earlier. I hate a stiff. A stiff is worse than the Vermin and the Pond Scum. A stiff is the perfect example of a person who should not have been playing for money in the first place. Why? Because to place a bet, one should at least have the cash to back up that bet. Years back, if a guy didn't have the cash, a MARKER was made by the guy whom the cash was owed. A marker was a slip of paper, kind of like an IOU. If the stiff owed $300, and I saw him winning cash, the marker gave me rights to anything that guy won. It also meant that he couldn't play me again until the original debt was paid in full. Most guys would beg borrow and steal to avoid having a marker in existence. This practice seems to have died with the dinosaurs, but I still believe that it was a fair policy. These days, guys want to "play down" their debt. My personal policy is this: You bet it, you lost it, you pay it, then we'll talk. When I get stiffed, or if I have trouble collecting, you can bet that I'll spread the good word around. The rule to follow here, is don't bet money that you don't have. On the flip side, if you want to avoid being stiffed, follow these rules:

a) If you're playing $5 a rack, collect or pay every rack. No exceptions.

b) If you're playing sets, collect or pay at the end of every set. No exceptions.

c) If you're playing with more than one money ball, collect immediately upon sinking any money ball. No exceptions.

d) Never change the rules or change the outline of the bet after the playing starts. Some guys will try to do this, and they're good at it. Stick to what was agreed upon. No exceptions.


I wrote that several years ago, and it's good to see that this information (and the guys shooting air barrels) have withstood the test of time.
 
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I cover this in my book Lessons in 9 Ball in two different places -

Proper Etiquette

Nothing irritates me more than a guy that plays for money that he doesn't have. Nothing is worse than getting stiffed. I would rather have the guy let me know that he is out of cash when it happens, as opposed to finding it out $200-$400 later. I would rather dismiss the debt than to hunt him down for it. Another thing that irritates me is when someone who can't pay up on Friday, approaches me on Monday wanting to play me so that he can play down his debt. I see many players that do this all of the time. The proper way to handle that situation is to not play the guy until the original debt is paid in full. All cash is due upon the sinking of the money ball. Follow that rule and you'll avoid that problem. Many people don't want to sound like an assshole and figure that the guy will pay them at the end of the session, only to find out that he went bankrupt two sets ago. Players like this can be driven to extinction if the above rules are followed.


and we revisit the topic again -


Sharks, Stiffs, & Crybabies

I elaborated on stiffs earlier. I hate a stiff. A stiff is worse than the Vermin and the Pond Scum. A stiff is the perfect example of a person who should not have been playing for money in the first place. Why? Because to place a bet, one should at least have the cash to back up that bet. Years back, if a guy didn't have the cash, a MARKER was made by the guy whom the cash was owed. A marker was a slip of paper, kind of like an IOU. If the stiff owed $300, and I saw him winning cash, the marker gave me rights to anything that guy won. It also meant that he couldn't play me again until the original debt was paid in full. Most guys would beg borrow and steal to avoid having a marker in existence. This practice seems to have died with the dinosaurs, but I still believe that it was a fair policy. These days, guys want to "play down" their debt. My personal policy is this: You bet it, you lost it, you pay it, then we'll talk. When I get stiffed, or if I have trouble collecting, you can bet that I'll spread the good word around. The rule to follow here, is don't bet money that you don't have. On the flip side, if you want to avoid being stiffed, follow these rules:

a) If you're playing $5 a rack, collect or pay every rack. No exceptions.

b) If you're playing sets, collect or pay at the end of every set. No exceptions.

c) If you're playing with more than one money ball, collect immediately upon sinking any money ball. No exceptions.

d) Never change the rules or change the outline of the bet after the playing starts. Some guys will try to do this, and they're good at it. Stick to what was agreed upon. No exceptions.


I wrote that several years ago, and it's good to see that this information (and the guys shooting air barrels) have withstood the test of time.


The key is EVERYONE has to do this. Some people think it's nitty or that you are gonna run out on them, you know that sort of thing. Some people view it like it's a fine line, I think it's just standard. Ive never been offended when someone wanted me to post. In fact sometimes if I bet more than I have I tell them let me go to an ATM FIRST! You don't get paid days later with me, you get it all right after that last ball is sank if I'm there.
 
Lotta Truth

That's the situation I run into all the time. It seems that if someone owes you $70, they have $50. If they owe you $120, they have a $100. People are clever nowadays too. They pay you a certain amount and since they owe you $20 they say, hey you just start out one game ahead next time we play. Stuff like that is nonsense.

Plus like I said I want the money each and every time. I don't mind paying each and every time and if I bet I am fully prepared to do so. The people who shoot $100 at a $1000 are usually the most tentative to play like this since they know where there bank stops going in to the game.

Good posts everyone keep going!


Mikey,

If your location wasn't listed in "need the nutz, IA", it would sound just like how they are here in "Gotcha by the short-n-curlies, CO" which is a 8 hour drive from "Air Barrell Canyon, UT" or 6 hours north of "Broke-dick Bets, NM" ... You might be right that people are like this all over.

-Ivan
 
I've had three such encounters in recent memory. Each guy was someone I knew fairly well and they paid off the next time I saw them (except for one guy, but I won a bit off of him the second time around and didn't worry about it). Still, it kind of peeved me since they had to owe me and I've never done such a thing to them (or anyone for that matter). If I'm short on cash, I will let them know and we can go from there.
 
I may only go into this poolroom once or twice a year. So I don't know when I'll see him again. I have played him about four or five times over the years, but this was my "biggest" win. And the first time he tried to stiff me. I think it sets a bad precedent anyway if I let him slide.

Some rich guys just forget what smaller amounts of money mean to regular folks. Not that you're going to lose the house over $40, but to him it's an absolutely trivial amount of money. To you it's an upgrade from Chili's to a nice steak dinner with your new bride!

Seriously, that guy probably thinks of $100 about the same way you and I think about a quarter. That might explain his reaction to you instisting that he "keep up".

Tom
 
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I havent read this thread but when I play I like to pay or get paid after each game. I have done the coin thing and from time to time it doesn't get moved which leads to disputes.
 
after each game

haveing money change hands is the fun part of gambleing.i go in a place
here in town from time to time most of the games are 8 ball some 9.
20.00 a game . there is a light fixture over pool table the money is put
on fixture ,no one else best reach over head except player that makes money ball . that just keeps everyone honest, or if they have to much to
drink they don't have to remember to pay up.
that system works good for me , take care johnqbs:anderson sc
 
I always pay up after each game and require the same. That is a rule I have followed for the last 25 years ever since the first and last time I had a person fire an air barrel at me and I got stuck with the table time and a worthless IOU.
 
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