Dumbest tournament rule ever???

[Maniac]

I was watching a stream (Las Vegas 10-ball). Skyler Woodward was playing fellow American Payne McBride.

They lag. Sky wins easily. The referee told Sky he forfeited the lag because his cue ball hit the top rail before McBride's did. A discussion between Sky and the ref ensued.

The ref eventually goes and gets what I suppose was the head referee (he had a referee's shirt on), and a discussion between he and Sky ensues.

We never really get the gist of what the discussion/rule was about, but from what I could gather the original referee was saying that Sky's lag couldn't hit the top rail before the opponent hits his ball. After a brief discussion, they were allowed to re-lag, again with Sky winning.

So, am I missing something here? If it is against the rules for a lagger's ball to hit the top rail before the other lagger strokes his ball, therefore causing a rules violation and immediate loss of lag, wouldn't it be advantageous for a lagger to not even strike his ball until the other lagger's ball has hit the top rail?

What an ingenuous way to win every lag, right? Dumbest rule ever!!

Hopefully after this fiasco it was discussed and fixed.

Again, am I missing something here?

 

[boogieman]

I've never heard anything like it. I'm guessing the ref needs additional training because they don't know shit apparently.

 

[gmiller]

WPA has the rule below. Certainly not loss of lag though.

The players will lag again if:
(a) a player’s ball is struck after the other ball has touched the foot cushion;

 

[Iwishiwasrich]

I was watching that match, I think Payne should be on the receiving end of a penalty. He waited too long after the ref waved for the lag to start.

 

[Iwishiwasrich]

In league play I see people do this all the time. It's like they are trying to judge the speed of the opponents ball before they shoot their ball.

 

[Bob Jewett]

In league play I see people do this all the time. It's like they are trying to judge the speed of the opponents ball before they shoot their ball.

There was a top player around here who used to teach students to lag after their opponent's ball was part way back from the far rail so they would know the right speed to play. I wonder what happened when two of those students lagged against each other.

 

[garczar]

Simple fix: FLIP the damn coin. Case closed.

 

[sjm]

Sorry, but when a tournament goes to a tiebreaker in nearly half of its Stage 1 matches, the lag rule is only the second dumbest rule in use.

 

[nicksaint26]

Just another dumb rule in play here. Thank you Matchroom for everything you’re doing!

 

[EL'nino]

Worst rule in pool history (Yes, jump cues are allowed)

 

[Black-Balled]

Dumbest one I ever encountered was that I have to spot everyone else the 4,5,6,7,8,9 and the breaks playing 9b.

Dammit, I thought we were having fun playing 'can anybody win this tournament other than I?'!!

Haha. I won that weekly event a LOT before they imposed that. After that, I went quite a few weeks losing 3 in a row from the break shot only. Ahhh, good times

 

[Texas Carom Club]

thats as chicken shit a rule as the guy who touched the cb just a bit before it stopped rolling after pocketing the 9 and no scratch possible loses

 

[Chili Palmer]

I was watching a stream (Las Vegas 10-ball). Skyler Woodward was playing fellow American Payne McBride.

They lag. Sky wins easily. The referee told Sky he forfeited the lag because his cue ball hit the top rail before McBride's did. A discussion between Sky and the ref ensued.

The ref eventually goes and gets what I suppose was the head referee (he had a referee's shirt on), and a discussion between he and Sky ensues.

We never really get the gist of what the discussion/rule was about, but from what I could gather the original referee was saying that Sky's lag couldn't hit the top rail before the opponent hits his ball. After a brief discussion, they were allowed to re-lag, again with Sky winning.

So, am I missing something here? If it is against the rules for a lagger's ball to hit the top rail before the other lagger strokes his ball, therefore causing a rules violation and immediate loss of lag, wouldn't it be advantageous for a lagger to not even strike his ball until the other lagger's ball has hit the top rail?

What an ingenuous way to win every lag, right? Dumbest rule ever!!

Hopefully after this fiasco it was discussed and fixed.

Again, am I missing something here?

I was watching that also. Did you hear Sky arguing that if he loses the next lag does it become best of 3 lags?

And yes, stupid rule, if there's going to be any rule about this it should be automatic loss of lag by the player who did NOT strike the CB fast enough. What a load of crap that Sky lost that first lag due to the other player's actions.

I will say though, he handled that very well, on the next lag I would have absolutely waited until my opponents ball hit the end rail before I stroked, or maybe not even stroked at all.

 

[JolietJames]

I watched that match. Payne plays over his Fargo imo. I usually feel I can hang with the 630-670 guys fairly well (and generally do).
That young man pots balls well and has a level head on his shoulders.
His defensive shots and decisions need work but I could not hang with him regardless.
He may be one to watch. I don't watch many junior events so I had not heard of him prior to this.

 

[AtLarge]

... Again, am I missing something here?

Yes. Under WPA rules, it is not loss of lag, just a re-lag (as gmiller shows in post #3). The rules require both players to lag "at about the same time." This is to prevent the type of stuff others mentioned above.

 

[poolscholar]

Must be some power hungry refs out there. This sums it up

 

[bbb]

WPA has the rule below. Certainly not loss of lag though.

The players will lag again if:
(a) a player’s ball is struck after the other ball has touched the foot cushion;

not a dumb rule as it prevents someone to gauge speed from the other players shot and have an advantage
only thing dumb is it rewards the player who waited because if he lost the lag anyway he gets to try again after a "practice " lag

 

[jay helfert]

I was watching a stream (Las Vegas 10-ball). Skyler Woodward was playing fellow American Payne McBride.

They lag. Sky wins easily. The referee told Sky he forfeited the lag because his cue ball hit the top rail before McBride's did. A discussion between Sky and the ref ensued.

The ref eventually goes and gets what I suppose was the head referee (he had a referee's shirt on), and a discussion between he and Sky ensues.

We never really get the gist of what the discussion/rule was about, but from what I could gather the original referee was saying that Sky's lag couldn't hit the top rail before the opponent hits his ball. After a brief discussion, they were allowed to re-lag, again with Sky winning.

So, am I missing something here? If it is against the rules for a lagger's ball to hit the top rail before the other lagger strokes his ball, therefore causing a rules violation and immediate loss of lag, wouldn't it be advantageous for a lagger to not even strike his ball until the other lagger's ball has hit the top rail?

What an ingenuous way to win every lag, right? Dumbest rule ever!!

Hopefully after this fiasco it was discussed and fixed.

Again, am I missing something here?

The ref either didn't know or misinterpreted the rule. You can't wait and watch your opponents lag before lagging yourself. That is why you must lag before their ball hits the end rail. If you fail to do that then you lose the lag. We had a pro player who used to watch his opponents lag until it came off the end rail, and when he saw the speed he would then lag. I watched and warned him a couple of times and finally called a foul (loss of lag) on him for doing it. I never saw him do it again. Not a big name player, just an angle shooter who will remain nameless for now. He's still around somewhere I believe.

 

[mr3cushion]

The ref either didn't know or misinterpreted the rule. You can't wait and watch your opponents lag before lagging yourself. That is why you must lag before their ball hits the end rail. If you fail to do that then you lose the lag. We had a pro player who used to watch his opponents lag until it came off the end rail, and when he saw the speed he would then lag. I watched and warned him a couple of times and finally called a foul (loss of lag) on him for doing it. I never saw him do it again. Not a big name player, just an angle shooter who will remain nameless for now. He's still around somewhere I believe.

One or the other's players ball is going to contact the top rail first. The question is, can a player 'Past Post' the lag. Wait till your opponent's ball contacts the rail and then hit the CB.

When in World 3C events the matches went to 15 Point games, winning the lag in a 2 out of 3 match is Huge.
Honestly, you would rarely see the infraction in 3C.

 

[spartan]

Already 3 matches caught up in "lag-gate"
Sky v McBride

Chang v McBride

Chao v Maciol

Don't like to call people names but that ref in Sky v McBride is a laggard. He was also the ref in Chang v McBride match