Earl Strickland Video showing him trying to hit his opponent with his cue.

JAM said:
One night at the local 9-ball tournament in the then-Champions in Laurel, Maryland, this discussion came up, the Skins match between Earl Strickland and Charlie Williams.

There were about 20 to 25 people playing in the $20-entry-fee tournament, and there were also quite a few "regular" railbirds in attendance. They liked sweating the Wednesday night 9-ball tourney and the prospective action that sometimes would occur. :D

This little local tourney did, and still does most likely, attract some of the best shooters in the Metro D.C. area, which would consist of players like Keith McCready -- :D -- both Brandons, Jerry Slivka, Ryan "Genie Man" McCreesh, Tommy Kay, Danny Green, Spanish Rob, "White Max" and "Black Henry" from Baltimore -- [I don't make up these nicknames] -- Filipino Jimmy, Seth from USA Billiards, Shawn T. from Baltimore, and a cadre of others whose names escape me at the time of this writing.

When somebody asked the question, what would you have done if you were Earl in that situation, interestingly it was the pool players unanimously that sided with Earl's actions, and the railbirds thought just the opposite, that Earl should have called the foul on himself. I just thought that was an interesting little divide, a mini poll, if you will. :p

JAM
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That is an interesting look at it. However, I dont think it's so much as calling a foul on oneself as much as it is admitting a foul but saying the Ref didnt see then continue shooting.

Im not gonna lie. If I was in that situation, I don't know what I would have done. I probably would have tried to play it off the way I stated in the above post. Im sure I wouldnt come right out and say: so the ref didnt see it, that means it's not a foul.
 
Jen, how does the dynamic change when your opponent saw the foul, but not the ref?

Would the players still say the same thing?

It's one thing if maybe nobody saw it and the guy didn't rat on himself, but he knew that Charlie knew.
 
Mr. Wilson said:
Jen, how does the dynamic change when your opponent saw the foul, but not the ref?

Would the players still say the same thing?

It's one thing if maybe nobody saw it and the guy didn't rat on himself, but he knew that Charlie knew.
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I'll be honest with you. I didn't see it up front and close, even though I was there. I was sweating it from afar, as they say.

I did see Earl after the match in the hallway. He said to us, "Did you see that shot?" I am not 100-percent positive that Earl knew exactly what he himself had actually done, at least not until he may have seen it on TV.

Pool players, especially at that INAUGURAL Skins tourney with the $100,000 added -- :D -- want to win that money so much, they can taste it. At this event, all 16 players were serious in their demeanor before their matches. This was the opportunity of a lifetime, and believe me, they were practicing by themselves in solitude and not very chatty. There were definitely dollar signs dancing in all of their collective heads. :D

So, in a competition of this magnitude, after being instructed at the players meeting to not "argue," for lack of a better word, with the Tournament Director, that pool player's first reaction is going to be to comply with the Tournament Directors's instructions when he tells them to go to their designated chair. And that's what Earl did. :o

If you check out Scott Smith's expression on his face, there was definitely a pregnant pause. After a few seconds, he made the call, and that was that. Earl moves forward. As it so happened, Charlie did win this match. So, for those who think Charlie got a bum deal, maybe justice did prevail.

JAM
 
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In reply to sliders comment on "laughing out loud'. My suggestion tofind some humor in the situation did not include the further baiting of Earl by spectators. It was a suggested reaction to 2nd and 3rd hand stories of earl behavior. The short part of my post he used did not really represent my meaning or intention. I think my full post shows that clearly.
 
The fact of the matter was, the ref was out of position, he didn't see the foul.

That being said, how many other instances such as this have ocurred in other sports and the offending player would not own up to the foul?

Barbara
 
Barbara said:
The fact of the matter was, the ref was out of position, he didn't see the foul.

That being said, how many other instances such as this have ocurred in other sports and the offending player would not own up to the foul?

Barbara
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I saw it happen at the SBE in a finals match between Keith and Shannon. They both played brilliantly, I must add.

When a referee was called to rule on a shot before Shannon shot it, everybody in the audience saw that the referee made a bad call. The seating there is very up front and close in that venue, too.

I'm not saying that Shannon thought he didn't commit a foul, but the majority of spectators thought he did. He kept shooting and won the tournament. It was best two of the three matches, and this third match was the tie-breaker.

If a referee makes a ruling, he is the authority, and the two players' opinions don't enter into the equation. What the audience thinks isn't even considered either.

JAM
 
Mr. Wilson said:
Jen, how does the dynamic change when your opponent saw the foul, but not the ref?

Would the players still say the same thing?

It's one thing if maybe nobody saw it and the guy didn't rat on himself, but he knew that Charlie knew.
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REAL champion who knows the ethics of life, would call a foul on him self, even he would be 100% sure nobody saw it. REAL champion is not interested in others respect, he's interested in pure self-esteem and self respect.

When he sees it him self, it is enough.
 
Marvel said:
REAL champion who knows the ethics of life, would call a foul on him self, even he would be 100% sure nobody saw it. REAL champion is not interested in others respect, he's interested in pure self-esteem and self respect.

When he sees it him self, it is enough.
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Marvel,
I like your analysis.

There is a DIFFERENCE between "winning a championship" and "being a champion." My respect is reserved for players in the latter category.
 
Marvel said:
REAL champion who knows the ethics of life, would call a foul on him self, even he would be 100% sure nobody saw it. REAL champion is not interested in others respect, he's interested in pure self-esteem and self respect.

When he sees it him self, it is enough.
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Earl used to call fouls on himself. I saw him do it more than once. Never forget when Shannon was about to shoot the wrong ball in Reno, and Earl reached out and laid his cue on the table to stop him. He could have let him shoot and cried foul. But he didn't, and showed good sportsmanship.

I guess those days are over.
 
jay helfert said:
Earl used to call fouls on himself. I saw him do it more than once. Never forget when Shannon was about to shoot the wrong ball in Reno, and Earl reached out and laid his cue on the table to stop him. He could have let him shoot and cried foul. But he didn't, and showed good sportsmanship.

I guess those days are over.
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I'm sure there's a lot of examples of Earl's good sportmanship in the past, and whatever whenever he does well, it shouldn't be ignored because of all the negative attention he has had.

I remember in another forum couple of year's ago when there was this famous link to the famous Z-shot made by Efren, and people were so conditioned of Earl's bad antics, that they started to bash him even in his behaviour in that occasion.
They sort of thought that he was cheering for the (up coming) win, when Efren get's the bad roll as he hooks him self b4 "The Shot".

Truly, how I see it, Earl is just with cheerful attitude thanking the heavens for such a luck, and as Efren makes that Z-shot, Earl's antics are really of a great sportsman.
I know this occasion was already mentioned in this thread, but as I didn't read all, I'll still add what Earl said afterwards. It was something like this:"I'd rather lose hill-hill and see that shot, than win without..."


Like I said earlier, there's no excuses for his behaviour in these links and in many others, but personally I like him - meaning I like him as a person when there's no others around and he can be in peace with his urge to show something to the 'audience' - and I'm looking forward to meeting him, as I feel he's looking for something which I may be able to give him.


Meanwhile, if someone really feels to be his friend and has chance to meet him, one should not listen him trying to fool himself, but to show him the mirror gently but firmly. He'll never get rid of his problems unless he'll stop making excuses and face's himself with all the demons he's carrying. Carrying with no reason at all.
 
do you guys think earl's out of line for complaining about the playing conditions sometimes?

If I remember correctly, his excuse for not calling that foul was something like "the table robbed me and made the cueball rock backwards and caused me to be hooked, so I decided not to call the foul because I'd already been robbed once".

Sounds like most people here would say that's no excuse, but it does make me more sympathetic. A player of his caliber should have near perfect conditions, especially with so much on the line. But you can't grouse about the tables when the table maker is one of the tournament sponsors and you're on TV too :P
 
Once upon a time,

I was raising money at Bob and Eydie's Midwest Open, a very well known cuemakers wife was hurting bad and in the hospital. We decided to try something nice for him and his wife.

I went around asking everyone in the building for twenty or ten whatever they could spare. They get a raffle ticket for $20 or two for $30 with a chance to win a $2000 cue.

Well you will never believe this after all the bashing in this thread, but guess who spent the biggest wad. You guessed it Earl, not only did he purchase one raffle he bought 5. Then told me to give his tickets to the next young kid I saw. Never asking for anything in return. And giving more than any other pool player in the building. I'll bet he doesn't even remember it.

The very next day Earl was teaching someone how to play pool and I told a bad joke about how the guy would never miss if he could bring Earl around in his pocket like a pocket sized Earl. Well this same man who was so nice the day before turned on me and defended his student, almost to the point where we got into a fist fight. (I don't like being yelled at by another man, more than that I don't like being in jail without bail money)

I was mad until I realized he was right. I shouldn't have said that in front of his student and discredited his student's effort. He didn't need a pocket Earl he needed to believe in himself and I was the one being the ass not anyone else.

Earl isn't always wrong and he really has a good heart. He loves pool so much that he doest play when he is around the table, it's his job. He takes it serious and doesn't waver in his pursuit to make it a real sport.

Nowadays, I wonder about pool more and more. It's OK to do a handful of pills to get going before a match most people won't mind at all. It's OK to be a fake religious man or a bad father/mother who has abandoned his/her kids for a game. It's OK to play favorites when you are making out the list of players to invite. Damn the man who would dedicated his entire life to this game. Makes no sense to me.

As far as how he acts in public, It's his business how he conducts himself.
Here is a quote from a famous dead guy.

He is not here to live up to your expectations and your not here to live up to his. If you should meet and see eye to eye then great, if not it couldn't be helped.

Not an exact quote, but really close off the top of my head.

Long winded,
Jamison
 
Mr. Wilson said:
Do you know anyone else who complained that a ceiling fan caused a ball roll?


'Nuff said.
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Only Mosconi would come up with something like that. Heaven forbid someone light a match in the tenth row when he was shooting. Boy, if they had cell phones back then, Mosconi would have trashed a few.
 
JimS said:
When at a tournament that's the way we as spectators MUST try to see things. It's the players point of view that counts during a match.

JAM. What's up with the soccer avatar? Are we seeing a new passion for you? :eek: :rolleyes:
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Looks like a jockey on a horse, to me.
 
ive seen a lot of posts on this foul subject. with a referee present, ALL EARL NEEDED TO DO AFTER HE MISSED THAT BALL (OR ANY BALL) IS GO BACK TO HIS CHAIR.

You guys want him to call a foul on himself??? That would be fine if he did, but dont hold it against him if he didnt. Can you imagine a guy sliding into second base during the world series, ump calls him safe, and he's like, oh no, he got me... and walks back to the dugout.

Further, this subject gets me kinda heated becasue a lot of people don't understand this..... if you are playing in a league or something that is one this (i agree a guy should probably just call a foul on himself there), but if i am matched up with a c player for a large sum.... you have to realize, a skill that is developed through playing pool is recognizing when no rail is hit after contact. if i am playing a c player for 1000 and no rail was hit, that is his skill level failing him if he doesnt recognize it, it has nothing to do with me. all i need to do is go back to my chair.... and if somebody tells him, that is strait coaching obviously.

this subject is just very black and white for me.
 
enzo said:
ive seen a lot of posts on this foul subject. with a referee present, ALL EARL NEEDED TO DO AFTER HE MISSED THAT BALL (OR ANY BALL) IS GO BACK TO HIS CHAIR.

You guys want him to call a foul on himself??? That would be fine if he did, but dont hold it against him if he didnt. Can you imagine a guy sliding into second base during the world series, ump calls him safe, and he's like, oh no, he got me... and walks back to the dugout.

Further, this subject gets me kinda heated becasue a lot of people don't understand this..... if you are playing in a league or something that is one this (i agree a guy should probably just call a foul on himself there), but if i am matched up with a c player for a large sum.... you have to realize, a skill that is developed through playing pool is recognizing when no rail is hit after contact. if i am playing a c player for 1000 and no rail was hit, that is his skill level failing him if he doesnt recognize it, it has nothing to do with me. all i need to do is go back to my chair.... and if somebody tells him, that is strait coaching obviously.

this subject is just very black and white for me.
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Ever seen a snooker match? Snooker players regularly call fouls on themselves in refereed matches. They play for a helluva lot more than pool players do, so it's a poor excuse to say that money is a good reason to show bad sportsmanship.

This subject is very black and white for me, too. I find it extremely saddening to know that there are players and fans and members of this forum who think it's perfectly fine to knowingly break a rule to try to win.

I'm not a religious man, but I think a lot of people have forgotten the lessons in 1st Timothy chapter 6, verse 10: "For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows."

-djb <-- my integrity is worth a lot more than $20k
 
DoomCue said:
Ever seen a snooker match? Snooker players regularly call fouls on themselves in refereed matches. They play for a helluva lot more than pool players do, so it's a poor excuse to say that money is a good reason to show bad sportsmanship.

This subject is very black and white for me, too. I find it extremely saddening to know that there are players and fans and members of this forum who think it's perfectly fine to knowingly break a rule to try to win.

I'm not a religious man, but I think a lot of people have forgotten the lessons in 1st Timothy chapter 6, verse 10: "For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows."

-djb <-- my integrity is worth a lot more than $20k
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now, notice please i said if somebody wants to call a foul on themeselves that's fine by me, but you really cant hold it against people for not doing it, they are not breaking any rules as you say. snooker players can do whatever they want my friend, but if one of their kids goes hungry becasue a guy calls a foul on himself i think hes a bad parent. i just hope people can see the difference between serious play and league stuff in these discussions. you may, for example, have a steady income stream. i dont see how you can judge the actions of a player you dont know on what he does at the table (when hes not in violation of the rules).
 
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