sicbinature said:
In One Pocket, YES!
Efren Reyes vs. Ronnie Allen
- Thread starter HitHrdNDraw
- Start date
In One Pocket, YES!
hemicudas said:
Just my two cents here. If one-pocket were a more popular game you can bet this discussion would include the names of more than just two people. I could be wrong, but I think the better pool-player would also (in most cases), be the better one-pocket player, if he played it as much as the guy who favors or plays it almost exclusively. Ronnie Allen was good at all games, but one-pocket is a specialty game where really good players can become really great players by dominating a less populated field. It's like the world's 100th ranked downhill skier loses his leg in an accident and goes on to become the best one-legged skier in the world. Bad analogy? Maybe. But I like it. Thanks for reading.
Tommy Joe
Waiting for Jay's post
I was waiting for my pal, Jay's incisive opinions before I responded to this thread. His opinions deserve comments.
the Beard
I was waiting for my pal, Jay's incisive opinions before I responded to this thread. His opinions deserve comments.
the Beard
jay helfert said:
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I never saw a person like Ronnie move more balls at once offensively, it was common to see 8 or 9 balls move all towards Ronnies hole on one shot, and because he was so good he also learned the game one handed, in the air (he was the best I ever saw) on a 9' table just to get action. He had carisma and an incredible gift of gab. I looked at him as the golden bear of our era, and what an entertainer, when there was action and RA was involved you'd better watch your wallet especially if you were not directly involved in the game.
Reading Jay's and Island's comments made me recall one very important facet of Ronnie's game which would just about even the scale, or even tip it his way against Efren -- hypothetically-- with both of them in their prime. In an Email from John H., it all came back to me:Island Drive said:
If you were unlucky enough to be gambling against RA on the green baize, you were treated to a virtual wall of hustle, con and shark, which was relentless. All delivered at a very high energy level, which tended to wither his oponents. I imagine just about everyone who played Allen in his prime mentally gave him the nuts going in, whether they knew it or not. In effect, they spotted him 1-2 balls, just because he had the psychological advantage. Hell, the times I was around him in a poolroom, I wouldn't even enter into a conversation with him. I knew he'd find a way to get me into a game that I could not lose-- then beat me.
So if you combined the psychology along with Ronnie's near-perfect playing, I doubt if Efren could have possibly prevailed. Efren may very well be the most complete expert pool player of all time, but a opponent needed alot more than that to beat Ronnie Allen.
Doc
jay helfert said:
Just FYI Jay, Buddy Hall also told me efren is the best 1 pocket player ever.
Impossible Task
There is no way that question can be answered because it is an impossibility. The question who was better Ali or Marciano, Marciano or Louis, or the one I spent many wasted hours discussing who was better Mosconi or whoever?
It is fun to discuss but that is why Baskin-Robbins has 31 flavors of Ice Cream. Everybody has a different opinion. I take umbrage when the media trys to make the players today Reyes, Woods, Tyson the best brfore they had proved themselves. Tiger Woods is a great golfer but not the greatest that ever lived. We saw Tyson go down the tubes. Reyes is a great player but everyone wants to prematurely make him THE GREATEST.
What he is is the best one pocket player at this time.
How would Tiger have done with a like set of clubs like Bobby Jones and the courses conditions of the same era.
How would Efren have played with the same equipment Ronnie used to play with. There was no Simonis, no plastic balls.He might have only been a mediocre player under those different conditions.
In closing it is a shame that videos and digital cameras were not available when Ronnie was in his prime We only have the recollections of some older guys including myself. But I can tell you this for a fact! At the time Ronnie was the most colorful player in existence. Did he shark people ? Of course he did but no one ever minded it. He was the show everyone wanted to watch.
I saw him in L.A. at Millikens come into the pool hall after the bars had closed and gave a guy this game. He took the breaks and raced to 7. If he did not get out the other guy won. Beat 4 players in a row at that game.
And for the record IMHO if the game lasted 10 minutes Ronnie would have had the triple dead nuts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is no way that question can be answered because it is an impossibility. The question who was better Ali or Marciano, Marciano or Louis, or the one I spent many wasted hours discussing who was better Mosconi or whoever?
It is fun to discuss but that is why Baskin-Robbins has 31 flavors of Ice Cream. Everybody has a different opinion. I take umbrage when the media trys to make the players today Reyes, Woods, Tyson the best brfore they had proved themselves. Tiger Woods is a great golfer but not the greatest that ever lived. We saw Tyson go down the tubes. Reyes is a great player but everyone wants to prematurely make him THE GREATEST.
What he is is the best one pocket player at this time.
How would Tiger have done with a like set of clubs like Bobby Jones and the courses conditions of the same era.
How would Efren have played with the same equipment Ronnie used to play with. There was no Simonis, no plastic balls.He might have only been a mediocre player under those different conditions.
In closing it is a shame that videos and digital cameras were not available when Ronnie was in his prime We only have the recollections of some older guys including myself. But I can tell you this for a fact! At the time Ronnie was the most colorful player in existence. Did he shark people ? Of course he did but no one ever minded it. He was the show everyone wanted to watch.
I saw him in L.A. at Millikens come into the pool hall after the bars had closed and gave a guy this game. He took the breaks and raced to 7. If he did not get out the other guy won. Beat 4 players in a row at that game.
And for the record IMHO if the game lasted 10 minutes Ronnie would have had the triple dead nuts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I saw him in L.A. at Millikens come into the pool hall after the bars had closed and gave a guy this game. He took the breaks and raced to 7. If he did not get out the other guy won. Beat 4 players in a row at that game.
Not sure i get that.
He had to break, make a ball and then run out or he lost that game?
Not sure i get that.
He had to break, make a ball and then run out or he lost that game?
titanic said:
Efren has been playing since he was a kid. He grew up playing on tough equipment, and very slow tables too.
And RA grew up playing the great players out of the depression era, that was quite a group.
Strong game
Yes. At Millikens he gave up that weight. If he did not make a ball on the break his opponent scored a bead on the wire.
If you watched him play one-handed you went home figuring you had a weak game.
As I said before it's impossible to make that comparison because the conditions are not equitable.
Case in point......how do you think Efren would have played on a 5 x 10 ?
Ronnie was a pretty strong pay ball on a 6 x 12 player. Saw memorable ring games at Cochran's in San Francisco.
I think it is a shame how Ronnie is today and I am sure that has a lot to with people being reticent to give him the credit he deserves.
Yes. At Millikens he gave up that weight. If he did not make a ball on the break his opponent scored a bead on the wire.
If you watched him play one-handed you went home figuring you had a weak game.
As I said before it's impossible to make that comparison because the conditions are not equitable.
Case in point......how do you think Efren would have played on a 5 x 10 ?
Ronnie was a pretty strong pay ball on a 6 x 12 player. Saw memorable ring games at Cochran's in San Francisco.
I think it is a shame how Ronnie is today and I am sure that has a lot to with people being reticent to give him the credit he deserves.
Voodoo Daddy
One Pocket 101
Not sittin the fence but...
At the DCC in 2001 I watched Ronnie get 10-2/10-3 from Joyner, RA playing one handed and it wasnt close. RA was in Complete control against one of the modern day superstars of one pocket shooting 2 rail banks and 2 rail kicks with one paw. Yes, I did make $$$.
BUT....
A older player from the NY/NJ area {Jersey Joe} told me the following story recently; Efren was in NJ playing Allen Hopkins playing some one pocket, after 3 games Allen told Joe that "This is the smartest one pocket player I ever played". When a guy like Hopkins says that about a player, shouldnt your cash be bet on Efren?
Bottom line...who can contest either mans ability...couldnt they be co-holders of the title "All Time Great"?
HitHrdNDraw said:
At the DCC in 2001 I watched Ronnie get 10-2/10-3 from Joyner, RA playing one handed and it wasnt close. RA was in Complete control against one of the modern day superstars of one pocket shooting 2 rail banks and 2 rail kicks with one paw. Yes, I did make $$$.
BUT....
A older player from the NY/NJ area {Jersey Joe} told me the following story recently; Efren was in NJ playing Allen Hopkins playing some one pocket, after 3 games Allen told Joe that "This is the smartest one pocket player I ever played". When a guy like Hopkins says that about a player, shouldnt your cash be bet on Efren?
Bottom line...who can contest either mans ability...couldnt they be co-holders of the title "All Time Great"?
Jerry, Millikens was the joint in Bellflower, wasn't it?titanic said:
Doc
Nice debate we got going here.
I asked Little Al Romero about this since he has played both Efren and Ronnie a ton. Little Al used to get two balls from Ronnie in his prime, supposedly.
Little Al picked Efren.
I asked Little Al Romero about this since he has played both Efren and Ronnie a ton. Little Al used to get two balls from Ronnie in his prime, supposedly.
Little Al picked Efren.
The real way to decide this is ask the top players that if they had a gun to their head and had to beat Efren or Ronnie in his prime 1 match to live, ask them who they would rather play. Anybody that says Efren might as well play russian roulette with 6 f***ing bullets and see how they do at that. How would you like to bet your life against Michael Jordan or Tiger Woods. As they are cocking the trigger to blow your brains out not only do you lose your life but your last thought on this earth is ..I lost my life betting agaist these guys.. Think About It
Island Drive said:
Well said!