Envelope Case Feeler

JB Cases

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
Is there a market for envelope cases?

I get a few requests a month for envelope cases. I can't stand any case that has a open gap at the top of the case. So I have stayed away from making them for this reason. That said I have designed a new one with no gap at the top and if I make them then they will be around $250 with simple tooling and more as the complexity and coverage increases.

I often see that people snap up envelope cases on here and so I wonder if it's because there aren't that many around or you just like the look, the light weight, or what? (by the way, an envelope case with tubes isn't going to be much lighter than a normal case if at all.)

I guess my main questions are really what do you expect in an envelope case?

I have some great designs on the drawing board but I wonder if I am over engineering something that isn't broken.

Are you as consumers happy with one or two pieces of leather folded over with a flap on it? Does it need to be any more than that?

And one more question. A few days ago, as an experiment, I made a case that looks like a tube case but with no tubes inside. I used the JB Organic Rebound interior and extra foam rubber. The case weighs just under 3lbs. Is this something that you would buy? I am on the fence about it because it LOOKS just like a normal tube case and works just like a normal tube case BUT it does not offer the same protection as a normal tube case. With an envelope/soft case you know going in that the protection level in regards to crushing and impact is not there. So would you sacrifice some protection for a reduction in weight?

Your input is appreciated.
 
So would you sacrifice some protection for a reduction in weight?

Your input is appreciated.[/QUOTE]

#1 Priority, protection, #2 cost, #3 looks, #4 weight. imho........Charlie D
 
I don't like that gap either....
But if you can make one without it and have a good protection, maybe even use PVC tubes inside (1x2 configuration) then I think you can find a market for it.

I got a Justis roadrunner envelope case that I got with a cue I won in a raffle, I have no idea if it's missing its interior or what... there is nothing in it just a flat leather sleeve.... I would not hold any cue in it....
If this is how all envelope case are made then STAY AWAY!!!
 
JB Cases said:
Is there a market for envelope cases?
Click to expand...
Yes
JB Cases said:
I get a few requests a month for envelope cases. I can't stand any case that has a open gap at the top of the case. So I have stayed away from making them for this reason. That said I have designed a new one with no gap at the top and if I make them then they will be around $250 with simple tooling and more as the complexity and coverage increases.

I often see that people snap up envelope cases on here and so I wonder if it's because there aren't that many around or you just like the look, the light weight, or what? (by the way, an envelope case with tubes isn't going to be much lighter than a normal case if at all.)

I guess my main questions are really what do you expect in an envelope case?
Click to expand...

small, compact, to hold one butt and one shaft, $$$

JB Cases said:
I have some great designs on the drawing board but I wonder if I am over engineering something that isn't broken.
Click to expand...

maybe

JB Cases said:
Are you as consumers happy with one or two pieces of leather folded over with a flap on it? Does it need to be any more than that?
Click to expand...

I think thats all it really needs to be. But I think the different designs could make them pretty cool. I actually think tweaking the flap could make it different. Maybe a flap/handle.

JB Cases said:
And one more question. A few days ago, as an experiment, I made a case that looks like a tube case but with no tubes inside. I used the JB Organic Rebound interior and extra foam rubber. The case weighs just under 3lbs. Is this something that you would buy? I am on the fence about it because it LOOKS just like a normal tube case and works just like a normal tube case BUT it does not offer the same protection as a normal tube case. With an envelope/soft case you know going in that the protection level in regards to crushing and impact is not there. So would you sacrifice some protection for a reduction in weight?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't. I have a 2x4 Justis and I love it. I don't have an envelope and I never have. Although, I have considered them in the past because of how practical they seem. Many times I have just needed my shooting cue and nothing else. Lets say I was going to friends house, that lives close by, to play one pocket. I don't need my break cue, tips, tools, etc.

There are plenty of other examples that I can't think of right now.
 
hi john

i bought an envelope case on here that was not even finished on here,i had recieved some new cues in felt bags.i put 2 of my cues in 2 felt bags and placed them in the envelope.i was perfectly happy using it until dennis glenn bought it,since then i have regretted not having it

just me but i never think of protection at all,my case is never in a place where it is getting smashed,if i dropped my envelope case i would not think the cue would be hurt.i have had questions about the open space at the top,i don't know if air inside is good or bad

drop me a line i would like to see your experimental case,looks of the case is more important to me than protection,and as you know i have nice cues like scruggs and cochran

oh yes the cases you made for mike and tim scruggs are really top notch

dean
 
The Envelope style case for me is the epitome of class and taste. So there is a gap.....so what? Built properly, they will last a life time and then some more. I suppose it depends on your climate and how long you spend outside with your case. For me, its to the car, straight into pool hall, car, home. Envelope case is perfect.
 
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Envelope

I really like the envelope cases...but I seldom see any with a handle or sling on it. I'm sure it could be an option.
 
the one i had was just leather that looked like oil tanned leather,classy and the rough leather on the inside and thats all i want now,no handle or strap.but as i said in my original reply i first put the cue in the felt bag and then into the case

my case looked like a single but 2 cues fit nicely.if instead of fet you made deerskin removeable bags i would want that too

i still like the other cases you made me but the ease of handling and weight is more important to me that protection,in 50 years of playing pool i have never seen a cue damaged while in a case of any kind,but i am not talking about checking it in at the air port,

ias far as carrying stuff i use a shaving or dop bag not attached to my case so i like these cases clean
 
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I have been looking for a case for my Brunswick Hoppe cue, the thick butt won't fit in any of my cases. I have been thinking that an envelope case might do the trick.
 
Envelope cases are definiely perfect for me.......

after I saw Matcase's envelope cases here with al the tooling and high quality build and protection, theres no doubt that I will be getting a couple made for the road and my collection
 
Hoppe

Maxx said:
I have been looking for a case for my Brunswick Hoppe cue, the thick butt won't fit in any of my cases. I have been thinking that an envelope case might do the trick.
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I have a 1945 or so willie hoppe professional I put it in a Engles (butt down) fits with no problem!Sam Engles made nice cases like Fellini except a little larger to hold 2 butts and shafts if you want!Covered them with Elephant hide,EEL,full quil Ostrich,Kangaroo,tooled Leather,SHARK,hair on cow,Stingray,Lizard and I dont have the Crocadile,Zebra,or Reindeer.Get you one I like my 28 that I have!!!!Ron
 
John

Any case that does not have some layer of protection between shafts and butt is pretty useless. Whether is be leather or cloth interleaving something is better than nothing

I have a folded over Justis envelope with nothing inside and don't see how for the life of me someone would want to stick a high dollar cue in there. Looks like Scratch City would be the end result

I will say an evelope is a very classy look, one needs to be designed though with cue finish protection in mind

Clif Watkins
 
I carry an envelop case over 1 year already, and the only thing that bothers me is no space for my cell phone and car keys. (that's why I'm ordering a case from you, John:wink:)

the things I like about an envelop case

super lite
simple/sleek and unique

regarding the protection and the gap at opening
the way i see it is our cues are in way more dangerious position when out of case laying around on the table or put against to the wall/chairs..... etc

how many times someone would accidently knock our cues off? the chance between inside & outside of case for my cues being damaged, I'd rather pay more attention on my cues' safety when they are out of my case:rolleyes:
 
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JB Cases said:
Is there a market for envelope cases?

I get a few requests a month for envelope cases. I can't stand any case that has a open gap at the top of the case. So I have stayed away from making them for this reason. That said I have designed a new one with no gap at the top and if I make them then they will be around $250 with simple tooling and more as the complexity and coverage increases.

I often see that people snap up envelope cases on here and so I wonder if it's because there aren't that many around or you just like the look, the light weight, or what? (by the way, an envelope case with tubes isn't going to be much lighter than a normal case if at all.)

I guess my main questions are really what do you expect in an envelope case?

I have some great designs on the drawing board but I wonder if I am over engineering something that isn't broken.

Are you as consumers happy with one or two pieces of leather folded over with a flap on it? Does it need to be any more than that?

And one more question. A few days ago, as an experiment, I made a case that looks like a tube case but with no tubes inside. I used the JB Organic Rebound interior and extra foam rubber. The case weighs just under 3lbs. Is this something that you would buy? I am on the fence about it because it LOOKS just like a normal tube case and works just like a normal tube case BUT it does not offer the same protection as a normal tube case. With an envelope/soft case you know going in that the protection level in regards to crushing and impact is not there. So would you sacrifice some protection for a reduction in weight?

Your input is appreciated.
Click to expand...
My input is: John, you know of an envelope case maker here that you recently commented on how nice his work is. I believe his name is Rusty Melon. I have one of his lightly stamped 2x2 with tubes that he sold me for a paltry price more as a favor than to make a profit. Now, he is starting to supplement his income by producing some fantastic looking cases. His cases are the nuts. Now, if you are thnking of having your Chinese "Artisans" dig into this market, I have to say.. you are beginning to annoy me. Quit using your low cost sources to compete with our American craftsmen every time you see somebody doing something that becomes popular. GTF and all the other import BS case makers will never see a penny of my money. The only foreign made cue case I own is a German Instroke. I think enough is enough with the outsourcing. IBM wants millions in taxpayer bailout money, all the while they have announced they are jobshifting American workers (taxpayers) jobs to India. Enough is enough. Unless you use saddle thick and grade leather, you are not going to make a case as durable as Rusty's. It will last 3 lifetimes. We have had great communication in the past, but here you go again. I would love to see Chinese copied products taxed out of existance.
 
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sleek and light

I would love to see a 2x4 with no tubes, but still keeps everything separated, so no scratches. Made out of quality, but thin material, light and inexpensive. When I travel I like protection but most of my time is spent locally, and I go for looks over protection.

Nice looking
Sleek
Light
Inexpensive

Edited for my opinion.
Mass produced with minimum customization, to help keep the cost down.
 
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our_auctionguy said:
My input is: John, you know of an envelope case maker here that you recently commented on how nice his work is. I believe his name is Rusty Melon. I have one of his lightly stamped 2x2 with tubes that he sold me for a paltry price more as a favor than to make a profit. Now, he is starting to supplement his income by producing some fantastic looking cases. His cases are the nuts. Now, if you are thnking of having your Chinese "Artisans" dig into this market, I have to say.. you are beginning to annoy me. Quit using your low cost sources to compete with our American craftsmen every time you see somebody doing something that becomes popular. GTF and all the other import BS case makers will never see a penny of my money. The only foreign made cue case I own is a German Instroke. I think enough is enough with the outsourcing. IBM wants millions in taxpayer bailout money, all the while they have announced they are jobshifting American workers (taxpayers) jobs to India. Enough is enough. Unless you saddle thick and grade leather, you are not going to make a case like mine.
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Um, I made "envelope" cases 17 years ago. Mine had a zipper on the side instead of flaps and they had dividers for each part.

They were called Instroke soft cases and were the first such cases with pockets on them in the way I did them and have since been copied by everyone.

"Cut into his market"? What? What market is that? The envelope case market?

IBM has nothing to do with me. I started a company in my basement in Germany and from there grew it to the point that it employed 17 people making cases and five handling management and marketing and shipping. I have never taken a penny from any government entity in any country for my business and I never will. I am debt free and every penny invested into my case business is my own. Every employee I have ever had was paid a great wage and treated like gold. So please direct your anger at people who deserve it.

"Begininng to annoy you"? Well I guess that settles it then I better quit before you get mad. Seriously who the hell do you think you are to tell me what I can and cannot make? I gave Rusty advice on how to build a better case you idiot. Are you so dense as to think that Rusty's business would dry up if I started making envelope cases? You know what annoys me.....when someone like you comes in here preaching about how all the big companies are ruining America and railing on outsourcing and greedy profitmongers and what do you say about your transaction with Rusty,

"I have one of his lightly stamped 2x2 with tubes that he sold me for a paltry price more as a favor than to make a profit." is what you said. So why didn't you insist that he take a profit? Instead you elected to accept his "paltry price" and withhold the profit he needs to grow in business. And you would like to accuse me of using people. And his name is Rusty MELTON, not Melon.

The impetus for this market survey is because TWO people have lately been pressing me to make an envelope case and as I told them I have put it off for a long time because of the flap issue. However I have intended to make an envelope case in the style of Chas Clements since 2000 when I met Chas and he showed me how he makes them.

And as I said I want to know if people don't really care about the gap on the flap. I started to feel that maybe I was being to anal about it and so I put it to the public. Because a flap with a gap is certainly the EASIEST way to make it.

But back to cutting into people's business since you are so clueless on that score, what about Brian Bonner? He started making envelope cases a year or more ago - why didn't you berate Rusty for cutting into his business, or berate Brian for cutting into Dennis Swift and Jack Justis' envelope case business? Because you are a clueless nit that's why.

And newsflash for you, there is no such thing as a "German" Instroke case. The ones that come from Europe are made in the Czech Republic, which has a wage roughly equal to Taiwan. I trained all the workers who make those cases and they are all made according to the design I created.

As for the leather I can use any thickness of leather like this for example www.jbcases.com/gunslinger.html which uses 4mm - 10oz vegetable tanned cowhide. We can tool and carve deeply and use our own orginal patterns as we are doing right now for a German collector, or use patterns from masters like Chan Geer (as Rusty has done), Ron Ross, and Chas Clements, either those which are freely available or with permission from their creators.

I guarantee you that when I do make envelope cases that they will be as good as anything else we make and hopefully as good as anyone else makes as well. But that is something that each person must decide for themselves.

This is always my goal as it always is with all cases I make.

- to everyone else thank you for the input I really appreciate it. -
 
In fairness to John, I must say, pound for pound, $ for $ the GTF Fellini replica is the best case of its type made. All the big collectors I know of have literally dozens of them to individually store their collection. There are several good makers of similar cases but they aren't made in the Fellini foldover edge style

Do I wish they were made in good old USA?? Sure! But you guys wouldn't want to pay the price (evidenced by the fact many want a cue here that plays like the hand of God for less than $100). I probably would pay the price, but the fact is, you can't find it
 
JB Cases said:
And one more question. A few days ago, as an experiment, I made a case that looks like a tube case but with no tubes inside. I used the JB Organic Rebound interior and extra foam rubber. The case weighs just under 3lbs. Is this something that you would buy? I am on the fence about it because it LOOKS just like a normal tube case and works just like a normal tube case BUT it does not offer the same protection as a normal tube case. With an envelope/soft case you know going in that the protection level in regards to crushing and impact is not there. So would you sacrifice some protection for a reduction in weight?

Your input is appreciated.
Click to expand...

So away from the envelope cases, protection is of utmost priority, followed by weight and cost. I end up riding my bike with my cues most of the time to league nights and have taken one or two light spills. So I need a hard case that will also protect from the elements (mostly water, but dirt accumulates on the outside too).

I have a 4x8 tube case, but was thinking of buying one of your wave cases or your new black 4x8, thinking they might be lighter. I've also been thinking of purchasing a 2x2 or 2x4 for league nights and keeping my 4x8 when I need more cues for my personal practice sessions. But I'm sure I'm probably in a unique situation.
 
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