Exactly how good are these professional players?

[MikesCues048]

The Pool players that are pros are proficient at what they do for a living.
I have played quite a few in the last 15 yrs. or so & lost.

Johnny Archer: Larry Nevel: Stevie Moore: Tommy Kennedy: Scotty Townsend: Rodney Morris & Corey Duel come to mind.

Yes, when they are instroke they will destroy most opponents on any givin day.

 

[Neil]

Played a number of pros over the years. What you find it that their shotmaking is not much better than an A players. However, they are a little more consistent. They miss less than the shortstops do.

The biggest difference may not readily be seen unless one knows what to look for. That is, cue ball control. The pro will be on the "right" side of the ob more often. The pro will usually have easier shots to shoot. The pro will play better safes because of that added cue ball control.

Those things may or may not be readily seen. In a short race, to 7 or even 9, the lesser player will win some of the time. However, over time, the gap will widen quite a bit. The pros consistency will add up quickly.

Where you might be running ones, two's, three's, and the occasional four, they are running two's three's, four's, and the occasional 5,6 or 7 or more. Those more consistent runs add up quick in a money game.

 

[BryanBpool]

Played a number of pros over the years. What you find it that their shotmaking is not much better than an A players. However, they are a little more consistent. They miss less than the shortstops do.

The biggest difference may not readily be seen unless one knows what to look for. That is, cue ball control. The pro will be on the "right" side of the ob more often. The pro will usually have easier shots to shoot. The pro will play better safes because of that added cue ball control.

Those things may or may not be readily seen. In a short race, to 7 or even 9, the lesser player will win some of the time. However, over time, the gap will widen quite a bit. The pros consistency will add up quickly.

Where you might be running ones, two's, three's, and the occasional four, they are running two's three's, four's, and the occasional 5,6 or 7 or more. Those more consistent runs add up quick in a money game.

^This.

I spend as much time as I can donating to a local shortstop and a pro level player that play out of my home pool hall.

They are both spectacular players, but as Neil mentioned, the difference is consistency. They both are capable of running out from everywhere, but the difference is that the pro level player is rarely out of line. He is on the right side of the ball the vast majority of the time and his safety and kicking play are better.

 

[Icon of Sin]

Had my teeth kicked in by Mike Davis numerous times in local tournaments... but I'm terrible anyway, so that definitely isnt proof that he is good.

 

[West Point 1987]

^This.

I spend as much time as I can donating to a local shortstop and a pro level player that play out of my home pool hall.

They are both spectacular players, but as Neil mentioned, the difference is consistency. They both are capable of running out from everywhere, but the difference is that the pro level player is rarely out of line. He is on the right side of the ball the vast majority of the time and his safety and kicking play are better.

That and they NEVER make a bad choice...a roll or execution MIGHT get them, but not choice in safe/shot selection/etc. A shortstop will occassionally go at a flyer they should play safe on...not a top pro. That's the fastest way to differentiate a player.

 

[Bambu]

Top pros can give shortstops the 5 out. I think that's pretty f'n good.

Biggest spots I've seen would be the call 5 ball and a game on the wire(race to 5). But that would be a pro against a C. Never seen a pro give out that kind of weight unless the opponent played D speed.

 

[Neil]

Biggest spots I've seen would be the call 5 ball and a game on the wire(race to 5). But that would be a pro against a C. Never seen a pro give out that kind of weight unless the opponent played D speed.

I've seen Danny Medina give a shortstop road player the 6 out on a bar box. Shortstop thought that he was stealing, until Danny got to the table. Danny flat out tortured him. Danny ran so many packages on him that UPS gave him a bonus even though he didn't work for them.

 

[Masayoshi]

Biggest spots I've seen would be the call 5 ball and a game on the wire(race to 5). But that would be a pro against a C. Never seen a pro give out that kind of weight unless the opponent played D speed.

I've seen first hand a top pro give a well known shortstop the 6 out and win, but the 5 out and the breaks sounds like too much. A short stop should be putting down packages consistantly, which would be impossible to overcome if you are giving away the break.

 

[jhanso18]

Played a number of pros over the years. What you find it that their shotmaking is not much better than an A players. However, they are a little more consistent. They miss less than the shortstops do.

The biggest difference may not readily be seen unless one knows what to look for. That is, cue ball control. The pro will be on the "right" side of the ob more often. The pro will usually have easier shots to shoot. The pro will play better safes because of that added cue ball control.

Those things may or may not be readily seen. In a short race, to 7 or even 9, the lesser player will win some of the time. However, over time, the gap will widen quite a bit. The pros consistency will add up quickly.

Where you might be running ones, two's, three's, and the occasional four, they are running two's three's, four's, and the occasional 5,6 or 7 or more. Those more consistent runs add up quick in a money game.

I agree 100%

I would also add that a Pro doesn't break down (as much or often) when the pressure is one.

 

[gxman]

Dennis gave bighurt the break and BIH and couldnt keep up.

 

[hang-the-9]

Since we are on the subject of pool being a dying sport and pro's should consider another occupation. I would like to ask how good are they exactly? Has anyone played against a pro before?

That is actually an issue with the pros being as good as they are, they don't look like they are doing anything hard when they play. So when the average person happens to see them on TV or somewhere, it looks like they are just banging in hangers over and over which any drunk guy with a screw on tip in a bar can do.

Ever see a pool movie where the top players are actually shooting correct shots? Nope, they have to shoot banks and do jump shots so people understand that they are GOOD, otherwise they just see great position play with easy shots. Only those that actually know about billiard games actually understand that if those TV/Movie players were GOOD, they would not be left to shoot those tough shots all the time.

I've played a few games with several pros and played a few sets with Dechaine, I think I got to 4 or maybe 5 both times in races to 11. And that was probably because he goofed around in a few games. When you hear that they will put you in a coma when they play you, it's exactly what it feels like.

 

[CreeDo]

This is one of my favorite posts on the difference between a pro (or top pro)
and a normal human who plays pretty good -

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=3820808&postcount=13

The main thing about pros is they just don't miss. Their cueball is tightly controlled but
every so often they will get tough on a ball. For most of us that's game over.
We either miss, or we cinch it and get bad position on the next ball.
Pros don't miss it and get right back in line.

Top pros are even scarier. They literally go hours without a miss.
And they will fire at some pretty hairy opening shots after the break.
Another great example of how brutal it is playing a top pro:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=4122336&postcount=91

"See the Dennis vs Shane 8-ball match on TAR, Dennis shot 100% accustat on that match,
he never missed a shot, he never played safe, he ran ever rack he looked at, and he lost."

Imagine playing perfect and losing anyway because you merely had an "excellent" break
and not "the best break on the planet". I believe I read that in Shane's TAR match with Mike Dechaine,
two races to 27, Shane did not miss a single cut. He only missed a handful of bank shots.

 

[Nostroke]

Biggest spots I've seen would be the call 5 ball and a game on the wire(race to 5). But that would be a pro against a C. Never seen a pro give out that kind of weight unless the opponent played D speed.

In the mid/late 90's Efren gave Ginky the 7 and the breaks and they pushed. Efren then offered Ginky the 6 out and he turned it down.

 

[Bambu]

In the mid/late 90's Efren gave Ginky the 7 and the breaks and they pushed. Efren then offered Ginky the 6 out and he turned it down.

Wow, only guys like Efren could do that to Ginkly in his prime. Back then Ginky would spot me and the rest of us bums the 5 and out. If he didn't make a ball on the break, he would push out to a spot where I couldn't kick at the 1 ball. I'd let him shoot again(back then it was push out style). Then he would unscrew his cue, jump the 1 ball in with his shaft, and proceed to run out! Things like that I can never forget.

 

[Maniac]

When Jung Ling Chen (pro speed...won a pro event in Reno a few years back) lived in the area, I beat him in a game of 9-ball..........

............He beat me 7 games :embarrassed2:.

And....I only won the one game because he scratched with three balls remaining on the table.

He was doing things with the cueball that almost had my jaw dropping. If he couldn't run the rack (which he did several times), he locked 'ol whitey up so tight I'd of needed dynamite to get it out.

I just sat back and enjoyed the show. And...after that....I had a newfound RESPECT for the talents of the upper echelon players. It certainly educated me on where I stood in the food chain of pool!!!

Maniac

 

[Cdryden]

All I know is that NONE of todays pros have ever beat me!

Of course I haven't played any of them but that's besides the point.

 

[hang-the-9]

Biggest spots I've seen would be the call 5 ball and a game on the wire(race to 5). But that would be a pro against a C. Never seen a pro give out that kind of weight unless the opponent played D speed.

If the non-pro did not get all the breaks or ball in hand after a miss or something, that would not be that much of a spot. It may be a bit under an even game for the pro.

For a B player, breaks, ball in hand and the 5 or 6 may be an even game playing a pro.

After seeing how I did against a pro (with no spot), I would probably play a race to 11, with the breaks, ball in hand after the break and the ability to move the cueball a handwidth at least once in a rack. I think that would still be a good challenge to win for me as a B+. I found the games I lost I either ended up out of position and missed a tough shot to play shape or flat out hooked myself.

 

[BasementDweller]

Played a number of pros over the years. What you find it that their shotmaking is not much better than an A players. However, they are a little more consistent. They miss less than the shortstops do.
...

I actually think this is one of the most common misconceptions about professional pool players -- they just control the cue ball better. No actually most of them pocket the balls a lot better too. Sometimes this isn't so obvious when you are watching them play a race to 7 or 9 or something like that, but watch them practice and then you begin to understand how much better they cue than most "A players".

An A player will step up to a shot and be a 80% favorite to make it. A pro will step up to that same shot and be a 95% favorite to make it. They may both make the shot but this 15% difference is astronomical and it quickly catches up to the lessor player.

 

[Jaden]

At higher levels...

In the mid/late 90's Efren gave Ginky the 7 and the breaks and they pushed. Efren then offered Ginky the 6 out and he turned it down.

You kind of have to understand that at the higher levels ball spots don't really mean much.

There are very few times and conditions where players at that level are going to get past the seven and not be able to run out.

There are very few times even when it is wild that a flyer is going to go in, even on the break.

In a race to eleven, it's going to be a difference of one or two games at most.

The main thing that a spot like that does is give a tad more confidence to the player getting it.

Jaden

As to the OP... Top pool is played at between .900 and 1.000. Can you imagine a baseball player batting a .900??? Hell even bowlers are only averaging like a .700.

Pool is played at the highest level of almost any sport.

 

[Bambu]

If the non-pro did not get all the breaks or ball in hand after a miss or something, that would not be that much of a spot. It may be a bit under an even game for the pro.

For a B player, breaks, ball in hand and the 5 or 6 may be an even game playing a pro.

After seeing how I did against a pro (with no spot), I would probably play a race to 11, with the breaks, ball in hand after the break and the ability to move the cueball a handwidth at least once in a rack. I think that would still be a good challenge to win for me as a B+. I found the games I lost I either ended up out of position and missed a tough shot to play shape or flat out hooked myself.

Never seen any pro give out the 5, breaks and ball in hand after the break to a B. B players I've seen would string too many racks together with the 5 and BIH. Old predator tour rules, for instance, would spot a game on the wire for every level of difference. So a pro spots a semi/open player a game on 7. The A player gets 2 games, B player gets 3, etc.
I never thought that was enough, and usually it wasn't.

On local levels, around here anyway, ranks go from 5 to a +3 instead of Pro/ABCD. Even then, nobody gets the breaks or BIH after. Worst I've seen it get for the pro is the 5 and a game on the wire.