Experiments in looking at the cueball while delivering the stroke.

Okie said:
I would love to see the eye pattern of some of the major pros! In this thread CJ was asked about having his eye pattern videoed but not sure he ever saw it.

Thanks for the first slo mo video too. I really enjoyed watching it. How much does a camera like that run?

Good stuff!

Ken
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Thanks Ken.

I've found that most of the pros & shortstops I've approached politely declined to allow me to film them, but it's been a while since I tried. That was before everybody started carrying a video camera (smartphone). I'll ask around and see if some players would let me shoot some video.

CJ, you're just a couple of hours away... I respect your privacy, so no hard feelings if this is not for you. I'd still be willing to do the SloMo, even if it was only for your private collection. I appreciate all your help, and read everything you post.

That camera was $400 when I bought it. Now it's discontinued, and nobody has really come up with a worthy replacement, so they sell for about $1400 now. Crazy, but I wouldn't sell mine for $5000. It's too much fun.

-Blake
 
I agree, I use it often also for jumping. It´s so easy for us to shift something in the setup when we lift our eyes, the more jacked up, the farther the OB is the more you have to lift your head to see the OB and then it´s very easy that the rest of the body/setup will change.

It also fixed my break, I usually always look at the cb when I break.

The more you try it the more you train, the better it gets and the more you trust...... Believe in it and it will work.

In other words - works great for me on several types of shot but I don´t use it on "normal" shots - but I do aim with the cb....... I hope it makes sense.

thanks guys and girls for all your posts, I learn something new every day:)

Chrippa

vapoolplayer said:
My personal experiences have led me to vary which I look at last depending on the shot.

I've taken lessons and played with several pro player, one of which really helped me out on certain shots by telling me to look at the cue ball last.

Shots like jacked up over other balls, frozen on the rail, jacked up close to the rail, etc. His claim was that these shots were much easier to mis hit the cue ball and therefore hitting the cue correctly was the most important factor, thus looking at the cue ball last was the way to go.

After playing and experimenting, I wholeheartedly agree with this approach.

I'm sure other players have found looking at the CB last on other types of shots including routine ones to be beneficial as well.
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, I learn something new every day:)

Chrippa[/QUOTE]

Do You also do a good deed daily????????????????????????????????
 
As a matter a fact I do:wink:

A big hug to you:smile:



Do You also do a good deed daily????????????????????????????????[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

My Grand Paw made me learn some thang new evar day, and do a good deed daily???!!!! You can ask him if you donut believe me:D
 
What Efren does is worth a lot in my book.

SloMoHolic said:
Thanks again, Greg, for providing a new spark for my game. I look forward to following your continued progress and learning even more from you.

Sincerely,

-Blake
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Thank you for the kind words Blake. I have always said that I enjoy pool because I never stop learning. Sometimes even relearning! ;)

I just noticed this quote in the Aiming forum.
CJ Wiley said:
I've played Efren many times and we do many things very similar (as far as striking the cue ball). He DEFINITELY looks at the cue ball and he told a friend of mine that he looks at it last.
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WOW! What Efren does is worth a lot in my book. With this being "Hearsay" it would not be allowed in Judge Judy's court but I find it very interesting. I know that Efren has a strong background in 3 cushion billiards and that was Willie Hoppe's game, so it would add up.

What CJ and Johnny Archer do or recomend also carries a lot of weight for me. From their statements I gather that regardless of where you are looking when you pull the trigger aiming the cue ball is more important than aiming the object ball. So cue ball last is my method for achieving that.
 
brock said:
Do You also do a good deed daily????????????????????????????????
Click to expand...
[/QUOTE]

My Grand Paw made me learn some thang new evar day, and do a good deed daily???!!!! You can ask him if you donut believe me:D[/QUOTE]

My tribe calls that a mitzvah (mits-vah). Whenever I saw my grandfather, he'd always ask "So what mitzvah have you performed today?"

Thanks for bringing back the memories
 
I have come across players who think they are hitting the cb where they aim, but they aren't.

I think those players would see a sudden and drastic improvement in their game if they looked at the cb last, at least temporarily until they fix whatever problem is causing that error.

As for doing it permanently, I think there are more benefits to looking at the ob last, as long as the player can hit the cb where they initially aim.

What benefits? For me, it's overall perspective. I can still see the line and space from the cb to the ob when I'm focused on the ob. When I'm focused on the cb, I only see my cue stick to the cb. I lose my sense of distance and that affects more than just aim. It also affects my choice of speed. All of that comes from my overall perspective when I'm down on the shot.

Yes, we should be making certain decisions before we get down to shoot, but once we are down, we are fine tuning and calibrating those decisions.
 
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gregcantrall said:
What CJ and Johnny Archer do or recomend also carries a lot of weight for me. From their statements I gather that regardless of where you are looking when you pull the trigger aiming the cue ball is more important than aiming the object ball. So cue ball last is my method for achieving that.
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Mr. Cantrall,

One, thank you for the start of a great thread. Two wonderful things have occurred as a result. First an informative conversation and second ChrisBanks is gone (hopefully forever +1 day).

Just to add to the discussion (I did not read all ten pages so if already stated my bad)(I am planning on reading the entire thread as time allows)... Jim Rempe used the cue ball last in several situations. One that he speaks about openly on accu-stat tapes is when jack up over a ball prior to the delivery of his final stroke.. ".. after my aim is on I put all of my focus on the cue ball prior to delivering the cue."

If Chris reads this I would point out to him that Jim Rempe was known to play at a reasonably high level from time-to-time :smile:

great-16-Rempe_young.jpg
 
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Great input!

FranCrimi said:
I have come across players who think they are hitting the cb where they aim, but they aren't.

I think those players would see a sudden and drastic improvement in their game if they looked at the cb last, at least temporarily until they fix whatever problem is causing that error.

As for doing it permanently, I think there are more benefits to looking at the ob last, as long as the player can hit the cb where they initially aim.

What benefits? For me, it's overall perspective. I can still see the line and space from the cb to the ob when I'm focused on the ob. When I'm focused on the cb, I only see my cue stick to the cb. I lose my sense of distance and that affects more than just aim. It also affects my choice of speed. All of that comes from my overall perspective when I'm down on the shot.

Yes, we should be making certain decisions before we get down to shoot, but once we are down, we are fine tuning and calibrating those decisions.
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Thanks Fran. I have not discounted the idea that cue ball last could be a step along the way for me. I will definitly report if that proves to be the case.

The line of the shot is my focus but I am starting at the other end of the line(I think:)).
 
I watch ever shot to make sure it hits center (or where I want to hit)

SloMoHolic said:
Thanks Ken.

I've found that most of the pros & shortstops I've approached politely declined to allow me to film them, but it's been a while since I tried. That was before everybody started carrying a video camera (smartphone). I'll ask around and see if some players would let me shoot some video.

CJ, you're just a couple of hours away... I respect your privacy, so no hard feelings if this is not for you. I'd still be willing to do the SloMo, even if it was only for your private collection. I appreciate all your help, and read everything you post.

That camera was $400 when I bought it. Now it's discontinued, and nobody has really come up with a worthy replacement, so they sell for about $1400 now. Crazy, but I wouldn't sell mine for $5000. It's too much fun.

-Blake
Click to expand...


I would have no problem with this, and it has been done for me personally, but never released to the public. There's no secret to it, I look at the object ball last, but my focus is on the cue ball for the majority of the time (that I'm down on the shot).

Think it terms of "being aware of the object ball's presence," and then when I take my back stroke and pause, my attention focuses on the object ball only so I can see it go in the pocket.

We want to know at all times where the object ball is contacting the pocket so we can make minute adjustments for the next shot. My goal is to hit all the shots the same, so if I slightly under cut a shot, I'll adjust my TOI (Touch of Inside cuing) IMMEDIATELY for the next shot. After a period of doing this I'll be hitting the center consistently.

If you don't see where the object ball is contacting the pocket the reverse could happen to you in the negative sense. You could unconsciously be making minute adjustments AWAY from the pocket. How would you know for sure? I know because I watch ever shot to make sure it hits center (or where I want to hit if I'm cheating the pocket).
 
gregcantrall said:
Thanks Fran. I have not discounted the idea that cue ball last could be a step along the way for me. I will definitly report if that proves to be the case.

The line of the shot is my focus but I am starting at the other end of the line(I think:)).
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I would definitely be interested to hear how things progress with you and what you look at last as time goes by. Please do keep us posted.
 
Efren's eyes

I just watched this youtube video.
Efren Reyes: 9-Rack 9-Ball Run
There are two places that you can clearly see Efren's eyes as he is shooting. At 6:30 and again at 45:00 you get a close view of his eyes. In both instanses he apears to look at the object ball as he starts his stroke.
Darn:smile: I sure would have liked to see him looking at the cue ball last.
 
Darn it! This thread's got me trying stuff I really ought not to be trying...last night I broke/ran out to win my 8 Ball league match and never looked at the cue ball once. Just lined up above the shot, and once I was down, I looked only at the contact point on the OB...then after contact (confirming I hit the contact point precisely as planned), I followed the CB around the table with my eyes, staying down until the CB stopped. It was a really tough out, too. I was using TOI, but shot two spin shots, too. The frustrating thing is, I know this is not my best/most consistent method, but if I believed what I was doing, I'd always do it. Don't know why I did it, and I'm not advocating it, but it was kind of strange...especially since I was experimenting in competition. Sometimes that's good, but not really fair to my team mates if/when it doesn't work out!
 
gregcantrall said:
I just watched this youtube video.
Efren Reyes: 9-Rack 9-Ball Run
There are two places that you can clearly see Efren's eyes as he is shooting. At 6:30 and again at 45:00 you get a close view of his eyes. In both instanses he apears to look at the object ball as he starts his stroke.
Darn:smile: I sure would have liked to see him looking at the cue ball last.
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Mr. Greg,

No offense, but neither one of us is Efren. You need to do what's best for you. I only look at the cue ball when making the stroke for some odd bridge situations & sometimes not even then. But, you need to do what's best for you.

Regards to You &
 
Experiment is over.

FranCrimi said:
I would definitely be interested to hear how things progress with you and what you look at last as time goes by. Please do keep us posted.
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Cue ball last is no longer an experiment. It is now my normal. I have proven to myself that cue ball last is the answer for me. I still experience improved accuracy, better cue ball control and consistency, with no down side.:cool:
I will not be trying any more experiments in the forseeable future.
 
gregcantrall said:
Cue ball last is no longer an experiment. It is now my normal. I have proven to myself that cue ball last is the answer for me. I still experience improved accuracy, better cue ball control and consistency, with no down side.:cool:
I will not be trying any more experiments in the forseeable future.
Click to expand...

While editing this Shane instructional series I saw this thread. I went through some footage frame by frame and it appears he looks at the cueball last and his eyes shift to the object ball very quickly after contact.
 
cleary said:
While editing this Shane instructional series I saw this thread. I went through some footage frame by frame and it appears he looks at the cueball last and his eyes shift to the object ball very quickly after contact.
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Now that's something worth investigating further! Some "experts" would be in shock.
 
I've always looked at the CB last. And I find that if I'm able to get my body in the most correct shot alignment possible....and focus on a tiny pinpoint location on the CB, I shoot my absolute best.

Honestly, until I joined AZ, I didn't know that there was any other way.
 
That is interesting

cleary said:
While editing this Shane instructional series I saw this thread. I went through some footage frame by frame and it appears he looks at the cueball last and his eyes shift to the object ball very quickly after contact.
Click to expand...
That is cool to hear.
It is hard to find a video that is high res and shows the shooters eyes while shooting. I am still looking for more of Efren.
 
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