Explain cues to me please

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AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ok $100 cue 19oz straight apart and together $1000 cue 19oz straight apart and together. Other than art work or a name and price what is the difference?

If your an average bar room player I doubt either cue would make a difference in your playing, am I wrong?

How about a mid level player?

If your a Pro would it make a difference?

What makes one straight cue better than another?
 
Ok $100 cue 19oz straight apart and together $1000 cue 19oz straight apart and together. Other than art work or a name and price what is the difference?
[This can be really hard to answer.]

What makes one straight cue better than another?
[This is easy:grin:the player who is using it:grin-square:]
 
Your gunna wish you hadnt asked. LOL

A big bag of worms for this one. Ill try to help.

A lower to mid class player can definitly improve there game with a good cue. The biggest difference is in the shaft. Low deflection shafts can help improve a novices game at a very rapid rate. They make moving the cue ball easier and there for allow the shooter to be more accurate. A beat up bent house cue doesnt allow you to get VERY comfertable with it. They are all a little different. If you get your own cue the hit will always be the same and you will get used to that. Then you will change tips and cues to find what you like.:wink:

The pros can almost play with anything. There understanding of cue ball deflection and english as well as stroke, pattern play, and form, are light years ahead of most. They are able to alter there aim for a different cue very quickly, this makes only the toughest of shots a little tougher to them.:eek:

As for cost there are many factors involved in what a cue is worth. Who made it, the production numbers, as well as the age, and design can make a cues value increase or decrease. The materials in the cue also alter the price. Custom cues can be altered to fit your preferences to a T and they are generally very solid playing cues.

Hope this help but to be honest it is just skiming the top.
 
Ok $100 cue 19oz straight apart and together $1000 cue 19oz straight apart and together. Other than art work or a name and price what is the difference? Not a ton...probably a better "feel" with the $1000 cue, but that is subjective.

If your an average bar room player I doubt either cue would make a difference in your playing, am I wrong? nope

How about a mid level player? probably not enough to justify spending $1K

If your a Pro would it make a difference? A pro has a better "feel" for a cue they like. I've seen pros play great with $100 cues and $10,000 cues.

What makes one straight cue better than another? again, it's subjective from player to player


Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
Today's custom cues are mostly art. Functional, but still art. The $3000 Mottey will no doubt have a nice feel to it but a player won't spend that money thinking it's going to give him an edge at the table. It's more of a "pride of ownership" thing.

Lets face it. Earl, Efren, Johny, Mikka, Ralph, Thorsten or any of the other top pro's (to name but a few) could beat the lips off of most of us with our own cues that we've played with for months or years. It's never about what you have in your hand, but you shouldn't handicap yourself with a piece of junk either.
 
where's the popcorn?

you wil get answers! i will get the ball rolling AS I SEE IT. i certainly do not know it all by any wild stretch of the imagination, let me make that clear.

for a hundred bucks you can get a two piece cue that is straight and may stay that way. for a thousand bucks you will get a cue that is straight and may stay that way. a beginning player probably wouldn't notice any differences between the two cues in the way they hit- if in fact there is any. the higher dollar cues go for higher prices due to maker's reputation,materials(ie. ivory, snakewood, leather, inlays), construction methods,and intracacies of details.
the $100 cue may have been assembled in five minutes time from a 1000 identical parts. the $1k cue probably was assembled over hours and hours of painstaking work and attention to details.
shaft blanks turned down, seasoned, turned again, seasoned again, until desired diameter. mcdermott for instance has wood that has been seasoned for years. cues selling for $100 MAY have been seasoned from the tree to the kiln to the cue factory. i imagine cuemakers are pretty close mouthed about their sources of wood.
the $100 cue will have the benefit of mass production: mass produced parts created with a jig or cnc machine to get identical parts time after time. the $1000 cue will have much more hands on work by the cuemaker.
to me the fit of the ferrule is a very telling part of a cue. if the ferrule is able to move on a shot/doesn't have a tight fit, the cue may not impart draw english as well as a proerly fitted ferrule on a good shaft/cue. the cue can not be better than the weakest link-poor fitting joint,ferrule; bad butt/handle pin, forearm/handle pin, bad wood, bad construction techniques.
i will stop, i look forward to others weighing in on this.i have read somewhere: "a good cue happens, a great cue is an accident." maybe a bit of hyperbole there!
 
You're overlooking the fact that a lot of custom cues at $1000+ aren't necessarily "art" cues. There are a bunch of four pointers out there today that are $1000 or more. Tascarella is a good example. If my Dishaw was made today, it would cost over $1000.
As to the difference, and this is just my opinion, if I could find a production cue that played as good as any of the numerous custom cues I've owned I'd buy it and play with it. I've yet to find one.
 
Cues are 100% personal preference. Efren played for years with a $15 cue that was made in Taiwan and did things no one had ever seen before. Stephen Hendry won more than $15 million playing with a one-piece cue that was worth about $50 (though he did pay a £20,000 reward to get it back once when it was stolen). Most high-end cues are expensive solely because of the 'artwork' and the cuemaker's reputation. They make all kinds of claims about how their cue has more 'playability' than lower-end products but the bottom line is that a cue is just a hunk of wood with a piece of leather glued on the end. The rest is all in the eye of the beholder.

If you're looking to buy a cue, just buy something from a reputable company for somewhere in the $4-500 range and just stick with it forever. Eventually your game will adjust itself to the cue and it will be like an extension of your arm.
 
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first of all... i applaud the OP's bravery to ask a potentially contraversial question.

and second... i agree that a can of worms may have been openned...
so i'm keeping my mouth shut and my hands clean :grin:
 
Ok $100 cue 19oz straight apart and together $1000 cue 19oz straight apart and together. Other than art work or a name and price what is the difference?

The difference in cues regardless of price has to do with materials used, tolerances in construction, and how well the wood is seasoned.

Some materials and practices aren't suited to making lasting durable pool cues that are pleasurable to play with.

Just to give you an example - take two cue makers and both are using Birdseye maple for the cue - Both cues look identical to each other.

Cuemaker A charges $1000 for his cue and cuemaker B charges $100.

Cuemaker A bought the wood he will use in his cue from the supplier 5 years ago and in those five years he has taken the wood and carefully dried it and cut it and let it rest and repeated this process many times to allow the wood to achieve maximum stability. When he puts the cues together he makes sure that each part fits perfectly to each other part, the adhesive he uses is top grade and he knows exactly how to use it. When his cue is done it's a perfectly constructed instrument that is highly tuned.

Cuemaker B bought the wood he is going to use 3 months ago and he has relied on the supplier's word that it is "dry" he cuts it a few times and dips it in wood stabilizer to chemically alter the composition of the wood. He isn't so concerned about making sure that each part is compression fitted with tight tolerances, instead he fills any gaps with glue which is course isn't the best quality and he has little experience with glues anyway. When his cue is done it looks great.

The difference in these two cues is that Cuemaker A has put way more effort and time and money and experience into making his cue and it will DEFINITELY stay a highly tuned precision instrument for decades. Cuemaker B's cue might be great now but it's unlikely that it will hold up over time. It "might" and if it does then great but the odds are that it won't. The odds are also good that it's "hit" can change with conditions whereas the cue from A is likely to be much more consistent over a wider range of conditions.

This scene has been played out hundreds of times in the cue making business.

New cue makers and others who try to take shortcuts often find that their cues develop problems. This is the same for factories as well as individual makers.


If your an average bar room player I doubt either cue would make a difference in your playing, am I wrong?

You are mostly right. It's hard to buy a "bad" cue these days and most production cues are pretty damn good. But depending on the brand of the $1000 cue it might be pretty noticeable to even the average player that it's much nicer to play pool with. That it feels better. Using the old car analogy both the Ford Focus and the Porsche 911 will get you to the store and back but only one of them will do it in 6 seconds from 0-60. Everyone who can drive will feel the difference between a Focus and a 911.

So the increased confidence alone one gains by playing with a cue that feels better is sometimes worth a ball in one's game. As for which cue actually performs better - well that is a whole 'nother can of worms.

How about a mid level player?

If your a Pro would it make a difference?

The better player you are the more you are attuned to the differences in hit from one cue to another in terms of what you like. That said it has been proven that even pro level players can't tell how a cue is made, i.e. stainless steel joint vs. phenolic or WHO made it just by "hit" alone. They can only tell you if they like the way a cue hits not whether they WILL LIKE it before they shoot with it based on how it's made. Of course you will hear people all the saying that they don't like this or that brand - but if you cover up the brand and joint then a lot of people suddenly seem to like the hit of cues that they formerly despised.


What makes one straight cue better than another?

How it feels to you. All other things being equal if the $100 cue and the $1000 cue both feel the same to you then the $1000 cue is no better. You can't know how they were built and you can't know how they will hold up. You can do your homework and if the maker of the $100 cues has a lot of problems then that's a consideration. But in the moment, if you pick up a production brand $100 cue and it feels as good to you as a $1000 famous custom brand then that's your personal experience and it's as valid as anyone else's.

I personally wouldn't go spouting off that the $100 cue is as good as the $1000 cue. For one thing you can't know that - all you have to go by is your own personal judgement which is subjective due to your experience level and the fact that you can't dissect the cues.

My opinion for example might be more objective since I happen to know how most cues are made due to my experience in both custom shops and large factories.

So you can see how there are a of variables.

At the end of the day though it's all about whether you like it or not. If you are second guessing your equipment then maybe you need to change your equipment or get in tune with it.
 
A pro using a $1000 cue will beat you and your $100 cue.

A pro using a $100 cue will beat you and your $1000 cue.
 
Ok $100 cue 19oz straight apart and together $1000 cue 19oz straight apart and together.
1) Other than art work or a name and price what is the difference?

2) If your an average bar room player I doubt either cue would make a difference in your playing, am I wrong?

3) How about a mid level player?

4) If your a Pro would it make a difference?

5) What makes one straight cue better than another?

Basically, I like Scott's answers. IMO, the answer to 1 and 5 is about the same.

A cue made by a maker who has really fiddled around with their design and has developed an exact recipe for playability is worth a lot. This is what production cues do not do as well. . .It is tip choice, taper, weight range, weight distribution, grip diameter, grip texture, etc. Then the trick is finding the cuemaker whose recipe makes the feel you want.

After this endless search, I would guess it wouldn't be a huge difference, but it would be nice! . . .at least from what I have tried.
 
Find some one that will let you shoot with their SW. Then you will find out why people wait 9 years to have one built.
 
Find some one that will let you shoot with their SW. Then you will find out why people wait 9 years to have one built.

You may or may not ever play with a Southwest cue so I will explain why people wait years for one.
Hype.

A fad. A clever marketing strategy which a product is advertized as the thing everyone must have, to the point where people begin to feel they need to consume it.

After the first $150-a pool cue is all Hype.
Don't buy into it. Just Practice.

Eddie
 
You may or may not ever play with a Southwest cue so I will explain why people wait years for one.
Hype.

A fad. A clever marketing strategy which a product is advertized as the thing everyone must have, to the point where people begin to feel they need to consume it.

After the first $150-a pool cue is all Hype.
Don't buy into it. Just Practice.

Eddie

Hmm considering a Predator or OB1 or other low deflection shaft is about $200 your $150 Hype Rule is interesting. I'm not disagreeing with you but it is interesting.
 
Ok $100 cue 19oz straight apart and together $1000 cue 19oz straight apart and together. Other than art work or a name and price what is the difference?

If your an average bar room player I doubt either cue would make a difference in your playing, am I wrong?

How about a mid level player?

If your a Pro would it make a difference?

What makes one straight cue better than another?

With any luck, the 1K cue is of higher quality materials, that have been properly dried, and seasoned. The 1K cue, will probably be made by a cuemaker who takes their time in between turnings, which allows the cue to settle, as it progresses. Better construction techniques, and more personal attention to each cue, usually results in a better finished product, that will hopefully last quite awhile. If you are an average bar room player, probably doesn't matter. A mid-level player, maybe. A pro, you wouldn't be asking......JMO. Hope this helps.
 
Today's custom cues are mostly art. Functional, but still art. The $3000 Mottey will no doubt have a nice feel to it but a player won't spend that money thinking it's going to give him an edge at the table. It's more of a "pride of ownership" thing.

Lets face it. Earl, Efren, Johny, Mikka, Ralph, Thorsten or any of the other top pro's (to name but a few) could beat the lips off of most of us with our own cues that we've played with for months or years. It's never about what you have in your hand, but you shouldn't handicap yourself with a piece of junk either.


Another........What he said. :thumbup:
 
The 1st (production) cue for the "almost' beginner should be one that has SOME quality build in to it. OK shaft wood, decent fittings, etc.. This $100-$200 cue will be replaced when and if you improve and play enough to truly enjoy the game. This starter cue is NOT junk, but a reasonable quality cue that will give you some degree of performance. It IS a compromise...giving you the "middle of the road" for taper of the shaft, type of tip, type of ferrule, quality of the grip area, etc..

The ideal approach to cue selection is having the opportunity to play and hit MANY cues in order to determine what works for you...what weight, what balance, what shaft taper, what kind of "hit"and more. IF you can get those decisions made and truly KNOW what you like, you've probably played a lot already and possibility are ready to have a cue built to those specs.
Good Luck !
 
The difference in cues regardless of price has to do with materials used, tolerances in construction, and how well the wood is seasoned.

Some materials and practices aren't suited to making lasting durable pool cues that are pleasurable to play with.

Just to give you an example - take two cue makers and both are using Birdseye maple for the cue - Both cues look identical to each other.

Cuemaker A charges $1000 for his cue and cuemaker B charges $100.

Cuemaker A bought the wood he will use in his cue from the supplier 5 years ago and in those five years he has taken the wood and carefully dried it and cut it and let it rest and repeated this process many times to allow the wood to achieve maximum stability. When he puts the cues together he makes sure that each part fits perfectly to each other part, the adhesive he uses is top grade and he knows exactly how to use it. When his cue is done it's a perfectly constructed instrument that is highly tuned.

Cuemaker B bought the wood he is going to use 3 months ago and he has relied on the supplier's word that it is "dry" he cuts it a few times and dips it in wood stabilizer to chemically alter the composition of the wood. He isn't so concerned about making sure that each part is compression fitted with tight tolerances, instead he fills any gaps with glue which is course isn't the best quality and he has little experience with glues anyway. When his cue is done it looks great.

The difference in these two cues is that Cuemaker A has put way more effort and time and money and experience into making his cue and it will DEFINITELY stay a highly tuned precision instrument for decades. Cuemaker B's cue might be great now but it's unlikely that it will hold up over time. It "might" and if it does then great but the odds are that it won't. The odds are also good that it's "hit" can change with conditions whereas the cue from A is likely to be much more consistent over a wider range of conditions.

This scene has been played out hundreds of times in the cue making business.

New cue makers and others who try to take shortcuts often find that their cues develop problems. This is the same for factories as well as individual makers.





You are mostly right. It's hard to buy a "bad" cue these days and most production cues are pretty damn good. But depending on the brand of the $1000 cue it might be pretty noticeable to even the average player that it's much nicer to play pool with. That it feels better. Using the old car analogy both the Ford Focus and the Porsche 911 will get you to the store and back but only one of them will do it in 6 seconds from 0-60. Everyone who can drive will feel the difference between a Focus and a 911.

So the increased confidence alone one gains by playing with a cue that feels better is sometimes worth a ball in one's game. As for which cue actually performs better - well that is a whole 'nother can of worms.



The better player you are the more you are attuned to the differences in hit from one cue to another in terms of what you like. That said it has been proven that even pro level players can't tell how a cue is made, i.e. stainless steel joint vs. phenolic or WHO made it just by "hit" alone. They can only tell you if they like the way a cue hits not whether they WILL LIKE it before they shoot with it based on how it's made. Of course you will hear people all the saying that they don't like this or that brand - but if you cover up the brand and joint then a lot of people suddenly seem to like the hit of cues that they formerly despised.




How it feels to you. All other things being equal if the $100 cue and the $1000 cue both feel the same to you then the $1000 cue is no better. You can't know how they were built and you can't know how they will hold up. You can do your homework and if the maker of the $100 cues has a lot of problems then that's a consideration. But in the moment, if you pick up a production brand $100 cue and it feels as good to you as a $1000 famous custom brand then that's your personal experience and it's as valid as anyone else's.

I personally wouldn't go spouting off that the $100 cue is as good as the $1000 cue. For one thing you can't know that - all you have to go by is your own personal judgement which is subjective due to your experience level and the fact that you can't dissect the cues.

My opinion for example might be more objective since I happen to know how most cues are made due to my experience in both custom shops and large factories.

So you can see how there are a of variables.

At the end of the day though it's all about whether you like it or not. If you are second guessing your equipment then maybe you need to change your equipment or get in tune with it.


One the most insightful posts you'll ever read! Great post John. :cool:
 
How is that?

Eddie can you define a "fad"?
Can you give us an example of clever marketing?
The fact a person will wait that long for a product is a true testament.
Just sayin.
 
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