Fair? No way to sell a cue!

[Arbey007]

After reading all this non-sense..due to the fact that your odds will stay the same whoever buys a ticket...and you can't definitely rig the powerball red number....I would like to clarify here that all my raffles are strictly for AZB community only! I have never participated in it nor my friends outside this community!

So..what are we waiting for...I still got some spots left on my SW raffle...pick your number while supply last! LOL

 

[hangemhigh]

What is the thread link for this raffle???

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=100123&highlight=varney+jump+break

 

[smokey]

Arbey: help us here

After reading all this non-sense..due to the fact that your odds will stay the same whoever buys a ticket...and you can't definitely rig the powerball red number....I would like to clarify here that all my raffles are strictly for AZB community only! I have never participated in it nor my friends outside this community!

So..what are we waiting for...I still got some spots left on my SW raffle...pick your number while supply last! LOL

what is your raffle value: # x $ = ?
what is the real value of the cue if you sold it outright?

thanks for your help,
smokey

 

[Arbey007]

Southwest raffle

what is your raffle value: # x $ = ?
what is the real value of the cue if you sold it outright?

thanks for your help,
smokey

If i were to sell the Southwest Pre-date right now with LOA...I would take $2900 for it cash. It will include a sleeve case.

Now for the value of it. Why i add a little more to what im asking for? The answer is because of "PAYPAL". All the raffle participants simply pays me through paypal which if you sums it up, It will add up to almost $92.00 plus shipping. Hope this helps.

P.S. This cue comes with a LOA from Laurie, the value of this Southwest Pre-date is $3500.00 base on her word. I could easily make my raffle go for $83 per slot. But no...im doing it for $70 a slot. So talk about honesty? Hope this helps.

 

[Retail1LO]

I'm guessing this will not be a popular response but here it goes...

As long as the drawing is done publicly (such as a state lottery) then what difference does it really make if all of the participants are from AZB? By plunking down your money, you are purchasing 1 chance out of 42 to win a cue. If your number is selected the cue is yours to do as you see fit. If someone else's number is selected then the cue is theirs. It's just that simple.

To date, the raffles appear to have all been conducted above board. Granted, some "rafflers" have stretched the limit of reasonable pricing, but no one was forced to purchase spots. As long as the drawing is done in such a way that can't be manipulated I could care less who else is involved or even who pays. But if my number is called I had better get the cue...

Since this thread is about fairness...I have to say that I personally don't have problems with people using raffles to get more for their cue. In all honestly, what it boils down to is this: If you perceive it to be worth $75 (for instance) for a 1 in 42 chance at a monster Ginacue...then pay for it. I don't know why people insist on "doing the math" and multiplying out all the spots by the ticket cost, to see what the raffler is making. You're not spending all that bread. I actually think raffles JUSTIFY higher ticket costs just for the work the raffler goes through to set it up, collect payments, etc. Yeah yeah...I know...no one MAKES someone raffle a cue. But when you choose to conduct business, regardless of the manner, you're entitled to have your work paid for. Just my 2 cents.

 

[pharaoh68]

Soliciting Feedback, thoughts, ideas, etc.

A recent AZ raffle was "won" by a non-AZer. Apparently the raffle owner allowed this person to buy slots off of AZ.

I didn't realize it was a non-AZer until the same name popped up on another raffle, and another AZer asked the question I had - "who is this person"?

The raffle owner replied and stated it's a non-AZer. Buying raffle slots.
But no record.

Here is my reply: This is a major concern for me. When this same person, Ms Mickey, won one of your earlier raffles, I couldn't find her here to congratulate her.

Opening raffles up to "friends" who are not AZer is unacceptable, in my book. Not a reflection of you personally, but that really opens the door to corruption.

One could, theoretically, have a few of their friends "buy slots", then if they win they could, theoretically, tell their friend to keep the cue. That money never really exchanged hands. Who's to say these "friends" even exist??

So you get all the other raffle money and the cue.

The entire purpose of doing these in this format, with AZers publicly committing to buy slots, was to avoid this exact problem.

Selling raffle slots to friends off of AZ. Wow. There goes the entire check & balance system that we had, be it ever so fragile.


How do we know these ghosts even exist?

Since most raffles proceeds are far greater than the current market value of the cue, the raffle owner still comes out ahead when a real person (AZer) wins.

So a mystery friend/ghost/phantom "buys" 4-5 slots. Now the raffle owner has 10% chance of getting the money AND keeping cue. Worse case is, someone else wins and the cue is shipped, still getting top dollar for the cue.

Well, that's it for me and Raffles!
-von

All i have to say about that is:

THAT IS GAY!!!!

 

[GMAC]

Soliciting Feedback, thoughts, ideas, etc.

A recent AZ raffle was "won" by a non-AZer. Apparently the raffle owner allowed this person to buy slots off of AZ.

I didn't realize it was a non-AZer until the same name popped up on another raffle, and another AZer asked the question I had - "who is this person"?

The raffle owner replied and stated it's a non-AZer. Buying raffle slots.
But no record.

Here is my reply: This is a major concern for me. When this same person, Ms Mickey, won one of your earlier raffles, I couldn't find her here to congratulate her.

Opening raffles up to "friends" who are not AZer is unacceptable, in my book. Not a reflection of you personally, but that really opens the door to corruption.

One could, theoretically, have a few of their friends "buy slots", then if they win they could, theoretically, tell their friend to keep the cue. That money never really exchanged hands. Who's to say these "friends" even exist??

So you get all the other raffle money and the cue.

The entire purpose of doing these in this format, with AZers publicly committing to buy slots, was to avoid this exact problem.

Selling raffle slots to friends off of AZ. Wow. There goes the entire check & balance system that we had, be it ever so fragile.


How do we know these ghosts even exist?

Since most raffles proceeds are far greater than the current market value of the cue, the raffle owner still comes out ahead when a real person (AZer) wins.

So a mystery friend/ghost/phantom "buys" 4-5 slots. Now the raffle owner has 10% chance of getting the money AND keeping cue. Worse case is, someone else wins and the cue is shipped, still getting top dollar for the cue.

Well, that's it for me and Raffles!
-von

Couldn't agree more. Except you could also have Az'ers working together doing the same exact thing you are saying. Say 4 or 5 of them get together and are always in each others raffles but never pay. They just take up phatmon spots and it even looks more legit when they win. I think I may have just joined my last raffle.

 

[shamadam]

Couldn't agree more. Except you could also have Az'ers working together doing the same exact thing you are saying. Say 4 or 5 of them get together and are always in each others raffles but never pay. They just take up phatmon spots and it even looks more legit when they win. I think I may have just joined my last raffle.

Heres my take on the post above. So what if they do give away 5 spots to their respective friends. Thats just 5 less spots that are paid for. 5 less spots of money collected. If someone other than those 5 spots wins, the cue must still get shipped out. Now the seller whos running the raffle ships the cue/whatever and still collects 5 less spots worth of money. Its just like if he bought them him self. Like I said, If the cue/whatever is priced at fair market value, If I buy 1 spot, I have a 1 in whatever chance of winning, and thats what I paid for. I dont give a flying hoot who has the other chances. My 1 chance is legit. Again, JMO on the matter.

 

[gmcole]

Couldn't agree more. Except you could also have Az'ers working together doing the same exact thing you are saying. Say 4 or 5 of them get together and are always in each others raffles but never pay. They just take up phatmon spots and it even looks more legit when they win. I think I may have just joined my last raffle.

This would only have the potential to apply IF the raffle price is inflated. I think I would feel good as long as
1.combined price is close to current market value
2.#s are only choosen by posts to the thread ,not pm's etc.,by the person buying the spot(only way to do that is to be an AZ member) Post are time stamped so..in the event 2 people pick the same # ...whoever posted first gets that #
3.Make it very clear ,in an unedited post ,what raffle and raffle date is being used. Obviously, that needs done prior to the raffle. If I woke up sunday morning and found out someone won the raffle sat night, and there was no post saying that we were going to use saturdays raffle, It would seem very suspect.
4. the raffle host is a reputable person. Dale, (snowmon34) is a good example that comes to mind.
Now...
Having said all that, I think that all the raffles I've seen, to date ,were 100% legit. I would like to see legit raffles continue, I like them, and believe the Action they create is good for AZ. I just hope hope AZers follow the old saying-"You can shear a sheep many times,however, you can only skin him once."

 

[smokey]

If i were to sell the Southwest Pre-date right now with LOA...I would take $2900 for it cash. It will include a sleeve case.

Now for the value of it. Why i add a little more to what im asking for? The answer is because of "PAYPAL". All the raffle participants simply pays me through paypal which if you sums it up, It will add up to almost $92.00 plus shipping. Hope this helps.

P.S. In the LOA that came from Laurie, the value of this Southwest Pre-date is $3500.00. I could easily make my raffle go for $83 per slot. But no...im going it for $70 a slot.

noted and understood.

tks,
smokey

 

[classiccues]

It doesn't matter... if you are selling the 25 spots or 42 or whatever and the drawing is based on the powerball or some other random number. Who cares? You cannot rig it, someone who is slotted regardless of where that individual is from is going to win.

Maybe people should just clarify in the auction listing that it is either AZ exclusive or it isn't.. no big deal.

As far as inflated, if you think it is, don't bid. I will say that if someone says x cue is worth x and he has tried to sell it at x and it doesn't sell. Then x is incorrect.

But I'll use Arbey's SW as an example. He feels with the letter it is worth 3500. OK fair enough. Maybe you think it is overpriced, maybe he can't get that in todays economy. BUT you have a chance to get it at 70.00. 70.00 for a South West, and someone wants to complain? Incredible.

JV (--JMHO

 

[nick serdula]

No way!

A rip off involving a cue! Inconcievable!!!!
Nick

 

[Arbey007]

I got a better idea than to make this thread longer and we're just going in circles..I think everyone got the point.

Now, why dont we take all the people who participated in this thread and buy a raffle spot from me. And see who wins. $70 for a chance to win a SW Pre-date? You cant beat that!

 

[Monto P2]

Raffles

Hi,

I just look at this thread just now and dint know it was about raffles.

Here is my take-

I in all fairness feel that only az members should participate in raffles.In my raffles all particpants have been az members and not even a single no az person has participated.anyone can check all the raffle threads for same.

secondly i would like to know who decides the market value of the cue?
I would say for example I bought my franklin sw which has a gaboon ebony nose and is 1out of 5 ever made with one unplayed shaft for 2800usd and i decide to raffle it for 75usd spot and i sell 42 spots.some of us who dont know much about this cue say it is worth 2400 or 2500 or 2600.but i bought it for 2800 and i dont want to sell it below that price.I decide to raffle this cue.I pay paypal fees around 180 in paypal fees and another 100 usd to ship it and insure it.I spent countless hours on managing the raffle.People think i have earned a fortune out of it.

Thirdly some said about a 200 usd case being raffled for 420 usd.but in fact it is being raffled for 210 usd as for 10 usd u get 2 spots out of 42 and not 1.same case is beiing sold by jimmrayk for 225usd so should i increase the value of my case or is jimmy selling it expensive.

who decides the value?????????

A raffler spends countless hours on a computer managing a raffle in addition to paying paypal fees and shipping and insurance.So if he makes a few bucks than why not?anyone is open to do a raffle,if u think u have a good product that people will buy tickets for than go ahead.

IMO there is no way of deciding on a market value for a product.If people decide to buy spots than they obviously see value in the produt being offered and others should not have a problem in it.

about o/s people participating in raffles i also dont agree on that.

 

[beav99_4life]

Hi,

I just look at this thread just now and dint know it was about raffles.

Here is my take-

I in all fairness feel that only az members should participate in raffles.In my raffles all particpants have been az members and not even a single no az person has participated.anyone can check all the raffle threads for same.

secondly i would like to know who decides the market value of the cue?
I would say for example I bought my franklin sw which has a gaboon ebony nose and is 1out of 5 ever made with one unplayed shaft for 2800usd and i decide to raffle it for 75usd spot and i sell 42 spots.some of us who dont know much about this cue say it is worth 2400 or 2500 or 2600.but i bought it for 2800 and i dont want to sell it below that price.I decide to raffle this cue.I pay paypal fees around 180 in paypal fees and another 100 usd to ship it and insure it.I spent countless hours on managing the raffle.People think i have earned a fortune out of it.

Thirdly some said about a 200 usd case being raffled for 420 usd.but in fact it is being raffled for 210 usd as for 10 usd u get 2 spots out of 42 and not 1.same case is beiing sold by jimmrayk for 225usd so should i increase the value of my case or is jimmy selling it expensive.

who decides the value?????????

A raffler spends countless hours on a computer managing a raffle in addition to paying paypal fees and shipping and insurance.So if he makes a few bucks than why not?anyone is open to do a raffle,if u think u have a good product that people will buy tickets for than go ahead.

IMO there is no way of deciding on a market value for a product.If people decide to buy spots than they obviously see value in the produt being offered and others should not have a problem in it.

about o/s people participating in raffles i also dont agree on that.

If you decide to raffle a cue, thats fine, I hate the thought of raffles but thats your choice. But please dont talk about all the trouble that those putting the raffle on go through. You CHOOSE to do that in order to move your product at a cheaper price to those interested and most of the time for a higher profit on the item. So if you decide to raffle your product, good luck and I wish you all the best, but dont expect sympathy for the effort you have to put into it.

 

[bigshooter]

If they want to participate in the raffle why don't just register here on the board, it takes all of 60 seconds, you mean they are interested enough in pool to throw money at a pricey cue but not interested enough to take a few minutes to register on the forum.

 

[Black-Balled]

Couldn't agree more. Except you could also have Az'ers working together doing the same exact thing you are saying. Say 4 or 5 of them get together and are always in each others raffles but never pay. They just take up phatmon spots and it even looks more legit when they win. I think I may have just joined my last raffle.

Yo, G! U leev Phatmon outta dis. Yo bust a move G.

 

[Duce]

True. True. This raffle business will inevitably have a corruption.

Unless you use an unbias way to choose the outcome such as a USA Lottery system and chosing a Mega or Powerball number days in advancce.

You can also make fake AZB accounts about 5 of them with various emails and wait a few weeks and use each account to rep the other accounts.

There are ways to cheat and so I don't gamble. As one of the members here says "The quickest way to double your money is to fold it over and put it back into your pocket." COCOBOLO COWBOY! =)

 

[cubswin]

True. True. This raffle business will inevitably have a corruption.

Unless you use an unbias way to choose the outcome such as a USA Lottery system and chosing a Mega or Powerball number days in advancce.

You can also make fake AZB accounts about 5 of them with various emails and wait a few weeks and use each account to rep the other accounts.

There are ways to cheat and so I don't gamble. As one of the members here says "The quickest way to double your money is to fold it over and put it back into your pocket." COCOBOLO COWBOY! =)

that isn't a quote from Cakabolo cowboy...believe its actually a Will Rogers quote, at least attributed to him.

 

[kingwang]

If they want to participate in the raffle why don't just register here on the board, it takes all of 60 seconds, you mean they are interested enough in pool to throw money at a pricey cue but not interested enough to take a few minutes to register on the forum.

Actually it takes forever to get approved :frown: But I guess thats what keeps this forum legit.