Foul or no foul
- Thread starter Rusty C
- Start date
some events are cue ball only fouls and some events are all ball fouls.
if playing head to head with someone not in tourney or similar then set which rule ahead of time.
if playing head to head with someone not in tourney or similar then set which rule ahead of time.
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BCA 8 ball
In that case it shouldn’t be a foul unless one of the moving balls contacts that ball during the shot.
Used to be, even the pros didn’t usually call object ball fouls unless the match was televised.
BTW: The local social club tournaments I enter have VERY relaxed (friendly) rules. While playing a finals game recently, a ‘knowlegable’ opponent committed a glaringly obvious cue ball foul, and begged me to overlook it. Since little money was involved, and not wanting to promote any ill feeling, I told him to go ahead and shoot. He lost, and I couldn’t help thinking afterward that if our positions were reversed, my ‘guilty conscience’ would then likely have affected my play. Whether that really was the case in this instance, I could only guess. I just remember that back when I was a lot younger, and sometimes didn’t have the courage to call an unnoticed foul on myself, I alway unded up losing anyway!
BTW: The local social club tournaments I enter have VERY relaxed (friendly) rules. While playing a finals game recently, a ‘knowlegable’ opponent committed a glaringly obvious cue ball foul, and begged me to overlook it. Since little money was involved, and not wanting to promote any ill feeling, I told him to go ahead and shoot. He lost, and I couldn’t help thinking afterward that if our positions were reversed, my ‘guilty conscience’ would then likely have affected my play. Whether that really was the case in this instance, I could only guess. I just remember that back when I was a lot younger, and sometimes didn’t have the courage to call an unnoticed foul on myself, I alway unded up losing anyway!
I kind of think it should always be a foul.
That said, I am glad it isn't, coz i inadvertently move them all the time.
Related: when one player moves a ball, his opponent has the choice to move it back, or to leave it. I was playing a big player once and bumped a ball that was a little in the way of my cueing. When the other dude moved it back, it was all the way in the way. 2 kinds-a moving going on.
That said, I am glad it isn't, coz i inadvertently move them all the time.
Related: when one player moves a ball, his opponent has the choice to move it back, or to leave it. I was playing a big player once and bumped a ball that was a little in the way of my cueing. When the other dude moved it back, it was all the way in the way. 2 kinds-a moving going on.
It happened to Tony Robles against Mika Immonen today in the World 14.1. Foul. [And it was the 3rd consecutive foul for Tony, but he still went on to win.]
I think the key thing to consider is that he said the cue ball was in motion, meaning the shot was already in play, then touched the object ball. In that case there is no option to reposition the moved ball so it should be foul.
Absolutely not a foul under BCAPL rules, as long as the movement does not affect the play and that was the only object ball disturbed.
This exact thing happened to my teammate's opponent at the BCAPL World Championship three weeks ago. The opponent disturbed a ball he was bridging over after he made contact with the cue ball. In this case, the cue ball came around and contacted the disturbed ball, which IS a foul.
Unfortunately my teammate incorrectly thought it was a foul when her opponent initially disturbed the object ball and she didn't realize that the cue ball had eventually contacted the disturbed ball. She called the ref over and explained what she thought the foul was, and the ref asked if the disturbed ball touched any other ball. She said she didn't know, and her opponent (whether he knew or not) also said he didn't know. Thus no foul was called. (My teammate went on to win that game).
In the BCAPL team events you cannot coach. I would have loved to explain to the ref what happened (all her teammates saw the foul) but we could have been assessed a foul for doing so (on both tables we were playing on) had we said anything.
Moral of the story is to know the rules forwards and backwards.
This exact thing happened to my teammate's opponent at the BCAPL World Championship three weeks ago. The opponent disturbed a ball he was bridging over after he made contact with the cue ball. In this case, the cue ball came around and contacted the disturbed ball, which IS a foul.
Unfortunately my teammate incorrectly thought it was a foul when her opponent initially disturbed the object ball and she didn't realize that the cue ball had eventually contacted the disturbed ball. She called the ref over and explained what she thought the foul was, and the ref asked if the disturbed ball touched any other ball. She said she didn't know, and her opponent (whether he knew or not) also said he didn't know. Thus no foul was called. (My teammate went on to win that game).
In the BCAPL team events you cannot coach. I would have loved to explain to the ref what happened (all her teammates saw the foul) but we could have been assessed a foul for doing so (on both tables we were playing on) had we said anything.
Moral of the story is to know the rules forwards and backwards.
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Professional level 14.1 tournaments have generaly been all ball fouls, although that can be problematic if there is no referee watching closely, and even then sometimes only the player knows if they've touched a ball and they may or may not call it on themselves.
For 9-ball, for our weekly tournaments, we've always played that if the foul was on the next ball in line - say you are shooting at the 5-ball and you touch the 6-ball with your hand or cue shaft, then it is an automatic ball-in-hand foul for your opponent. Any other ball, it would not be and your opponent has the option to move it back where it was or leave it where it ends up at.
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Agreed
The problem with allowing contact is players can shoot lower, easier shots without penalty and move balls as they please.
If you are playing me for the cash and contact any ball after hitting the cueball and it is a foul. This also happens when people are allowed to lay across balls and shoot. It has to be a foul.
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Oh, so you lost coz of karma? Riiight:grin-square:
Nothing so metaphysical.
Too bad no one is born with wisdom nor integrity (a concept like ‘honor’ can seem rather vague to a stupid kid with his last dime on the line). Sometimes I envy the sociopathic hustlers I met over the years who are not so handicapped.
Well, it turns out, there IS karma after all. Tonight in a finals match (same social club weekly tournament) I touched (but didn’t really move) the cueball with the bridge-rake. I immediately called a foul on myself, but my opponent (who wasn’t watching) refused to penalize me, and directed me to shoot. I briefly considered passing the shot anyway, but thought that might well create a ‘consternation’ issue with the other members (‘friendly rules’). After all, the referee (your opponent) does have the final say. Since I guess I thought I ‘had one coming’ anyway (see above), I went ahead and ran out. But, this got me to thinking: Is touching the cueball with anything other than your cue tip generally considered a ‘cueball foul’?
Makes me nostalgic for the days when ‘a foul was a foul’, and life seemed simpler (and thus your opponent likely paid more attention when you were shooting).
Yes. (The obvious exception is when it's in hand.)
Technically true, but (go figure) when I explained the transgression to my opponent in detail, his reply: “We only call cueball fouls”. This from a supposedly experienced/knowledgeable player. I usually forgive barroom amateurs who second-strike the cueball, or shoot directly into balls less than 1/4” apart, since I realize they just don’t know any better. The rules for 8-ball (because the coin-op/barbox game is usually all they know) are so parochial/inconsistent, every new venue is a learning experience.