FYI Robotic Testing and "CORKED" Shafts
- Thread starter Barioni Cues
- Start date
No no no. What I asked for was what I wanted to see, known members of this forum coming forward to talk about their experience with you and your product. There is nobody on AZ Billiards that believes its possible for someone to be doing the great things you claim to be doing with cues for as many people as you claim, for as long as you claim without plenty of AZ members having some experience with you.
That's what I'd like to see. Some testimonials by people we all know, not some thing that could have easily been faked on a web-site created by and controlled by, you. We already know you are willing to sing your own praises. I'm looking for someone other than you, someone known here on AZ, to jump up and talk about how great you and your work are.
Thanks again
Kevin
That's a very good point Kevin. RKC is one of our more boastful members but his bragging is always backed up by a backed by testimonials from very happy customers.
When will someone say nice about Mr. Roboto?
When will someone say nice about Mr. Roboto?
So if I order one of your shafts how long will it take for you to ship it to me?
Sure man, I'm convinced that RKC knows everything there is to know about tables and does great work, but it wasn't RKC that convinced me of that, it was his customers, guys who I know and respect the opinions of, from AZ, coming on AZ and being in a state of ecstasy after RKC has worked on their tables.
I have no argument with LD shafts. I believe in the technology myself. Even Mr Baroni isn't crazy enough to claim he invented coring or lowering the end mass to achieve a more LD shaft and to be honest from what I've seen of his workmanship in his own pictures, that aspect of his craft leaves a little to be desired. So I'm confused, if he didn't invent the process and the work I can see looks a little shabby, I'm wondering what intangible result he has that causes him to be so boastful?
And I'm anxious for his customers, again, people known here on AZ, to share information about that with me.
Thanks
Kevin
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I'm out here, like Mr Baroni, in California, but as many of you know, I'm way too busy trying to make a meager existence of a living to be very involved in the pool world. However, many many of our esteemed AZ members hail from California. Mr Baroni says he's been out here for 9+ years, turning out a product that is well worth double or triple what other top tier maker's charge for similar products and services, and that totally improves one's game. Certainly all that being true, there must be loads of AZ members that have direct experience with this miracle product.
And I'd love to hear from them.
Thanks
Kevin
And I'd love to hear from them.
Thanks
Kevin
It all depends on what you want. Am I matching it to the butt? Is their custom ring work involved? Diameter and length of shaft wanted. Grade of shaft.
I sell a B+ grade shaft for $250 + shipping.
I sell a A- grade shaft for $300 + shipping.
I sell a A grade shaft for $350 + shipping.
They all will perform and play close to the same.
It is very possible that one of the B+ grade shafts will play more accurate than an A grade shaft.
The $600 TUNED SHAFTS are A++ grade shafts. They are very rare and hard to come by. The labor involved in tuning a shaft is extensive. I am having second thoughts if I even want to sell these to the general public right now. I need to keep these shafts for my personal cues or my real high end cues I sell.
The term Tuned Shaft is the process of repeating multiple procedures until the shaft plays the best that it can. Each and every shaft is different. The more the growth rings the stiffer the shaft. The stiffer the shaft the more you have to do to it and the harder it is to reduce the deflection. Some shafts you never can make it perform to top specs no matter what you do to it.
All my time frames are estimates or guesstimates I like to say!
I don't work when time frames are a concern or factor. Your best work does not come from being in a rush or trying to meet a dead line.
I learned that early on in my body shop building show cars. I keep my customers posted on the progress and call them when it is done.
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Scott
I know this. Lets say you are posting here on AZ, and some guy takes exception to what you say and starts to go on and on and goes to "what do you know?" and "who are you to say?", pretty soon a host of AZ members who I recognize will come running to your defense saying just who, in their opinion, you are and what you do know.
Mr Baroni has made some big claims about his product. Pool players love to try stuff. As long as he says he's been around and as much as his product improves peoples' games (so far according to him) I'm sure that soon we will see a host of established AZ members popping in and attesting to the genius of Mr Baroni.
Probably lots of his customers are out here in California and will be posting as soon as they get back from surfing and talking to bikini girls.
Thanks
Kevin
With all due respect you brought Kevin into this by having his name (and city) written across the screen in the video you posted.
I have played the Blue Hog ridr and he can play a bit ... not up to Brad or Fabians level, but I've seen him run a few balls.
Your shaft technology sounds interesting enough that I'd like to try one, hopefully someday I will.
Dave
One thing this thread has got me wondering about is how to determine the quality of the grain in a shaft. I don't know anything about woodwork :embarrassed2::embarrassed2:
Can somebody explain this to me? I was looking at some of my shafts last night and couldn't figure it out
Can somebody explain this to me? I was looking at some of my shafts last night and couldn't figure it out
Kevin...I'm on your side. I was merely reiterating what you posted...in two words! LOL I guess we'll see who comes to the aid of Mr. Barioni. Who knows, he may be another one of pool's "saviors". 
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Kevin...I'm on your side. I was merely reiterating what you posted...in two words! LOL I guess we'll see who comes to the aid of Mr. Barioni. Who knows, he may be another one of pool's "saviors".
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott
I know.
I hope he's pool's savior. I'd like to have a LD Gina shaft or 2. Ernie won't do it. Its just that after looking at the quality of Mr Baroni's cues, I'd be a little skittish about sending him a $300 Ginacue shaft that Ernie shaved little by little over almost as long as Mr Baroni has been making cues.
Some testimonials from AZ members I know that have used Mr Baroni's work would really set my mind at ease before I sent him Gina shafts to core out and plug for me. I'm sure those testimonials are coming soon.
Thanks
Kevin
i do not know mr barioni but i have known of him for about 3 years. i played a guy that was using one of his cues. it looked ok, no better or worse than most other cue makers. i have no idea how it hit , because i aint in the habit of asking people i just met if i can shoot with their cue.
as for him being a relatively unknown cue maker after the amount of years he has been building cues. let me share this piece of info i found pretty interesting.
i do not think there is a person on this forum that does not know about eric crisp or sugartree cues. also there are probably not too many that do not know about mark gregory.
well mark was at this guys house working on his table and he spotted some cues. he was some distance from them but he immediately spotted a herscheck,cogsnicenti and some others that i do not recall the name of. the guy happened to mention that he just got in a sugartree that he wanted to show him. mark said whats a sugartree ? the guy said its made by eric crisp. mark said who is he ?
now i dont need to remind you that mark travels all over rebuilding tables and is a pretty sporty player in his own right. he also probably knows as many players as any body on here. given that he is pretty involved in the pool world i found it odd that he knew nothing of eric crisp or sugartree.
this just happened about a month ago. i just wanted to put it perspective that you have 2 cuemakers who have been in biz for about the same length of time. barioni who almost nobody on here knows and sugartree who almost every body on here knows. then you have mark gregory who knows almost every cuemaker there is but never heard of sugartree.
the point is, just because you never heard of a particular cuemaker does not mean he is not any good.
last but not least . he came on here to inform people that he was cutting out some particular work he was doing. just as with some other threads involving some cuemakers and a particular thread about 2 pros it quickly turned into a pissing contest.
granted it looks like mr barioni could use a few classes in public relations. there are a few other cuemakers that should probably join him in those classes. in all fairness mr barioni did tone it down a little even after certain posters continued to browbeat him .
as far as the shafts go i think he may be on to something. it is pretty natural to be skeptical of anything new. just think about it. it was just a few years ago everybody was saying pretty much the same thing about ob and predator. oh yea, and meucci black dots too.
now a days ld shafts are the best thing since moms apple pie to a lot of people. years ago evry one thought 200.00 for a predator shaft was stupid, they same thing you are saying now about mr barioni.
years ago we did not have cored butts, radial joints, g 10 pins, bowling alley shafts, ob shafts, predator shafts, lake salvaged shafts and even kamui chalk and all the layered tips too numerous to mention. whos to say years from now mr barionis cored shafts will not be as common place as all the aforementioned products ?
all those products were being ridiculed when they 1st came out , just like his shafts are being ridiculed now.
as for him being a relatively unknown cue maker after the amount of years he has been building cues. let me share this piece of info i found pretty interesting.
i do not think there is a person on this forum that does not know about eric crisp or sugartree cues. also there are probably not too many that do not know about mark gregory.
well mark was at this guys house working on his table and he spotted some cues. he was some distance from them but he immediately spotted a herscheck,cogsnicenti and some others that i do not recall the name of. the guy happened to mention that he just got in a sugartree that he wanted to show him. mark said whats a sugartree ? the guy said its made by eric crisp. mark said who is he ?
now i dont need to remind you that mark travels all over rebuilding tables and is a pretty sporty player in his own right. he also probably knows as many players as any body on here. given that he is pretty involved in the pool world i found it odd that he knew nothing of eric crisp or sugartree.
this just happened about a month ago. i just wanted to put it perspective that you have 2 cuemakers who have been in biz for about the same length of time. barioni who almost nobody on here knows and sugartree who almost every body on here knows. then you have mark gregory who knows almost every cuemaker there is but never heard of sugartree.
the point is, just because you never heard of a particular cuemaker does not mean he is not any good.
last but not least . he came on here to inform people that he was cutting out some particular work he was doing. just as with some other threads involving some cuemakers and a particular thread about 2 pros it quickly turned into a pissing contest.
granted it looks like mr barioni could use a few classes in public relations. there are a few other cuemakers that should probably join him in those classes. in all fairness mr barioni did tone it down a little even after certain posters continued to browbeat him .
as far as the shafts go i think he may be on to something. it is pretty natural to be skeptical of anything new. just think about it. it was just a few years ago everybody was saying pretty much the same thing about ob and predator. oh yea, and meucci black dots too.
now a days ld shafts are the best thing since moms apple pie to a lot of people. years ago evry one thought 200.00 for a predator shaft was stupid, they same thing you are saying now about mr barioni.
years ago we did not have cored butts, radial joints, g 10 pins, bowling alley shafts, ob shafts, predator shafts, lake salvaged shafts and even kamui chalk and all the layered tips too numerous to mention. whos to say years from now mr barionis cored shafts will not be as common place as all the aforementioned products ?
all those products were being ridiculed when they 1st came out , just like his shafts are being ridiculed now.
What is new about his shaft? Its cored and stuffed with lighter than wood weighted material, for lower end mass. As you mention, Predator and others have done that for years. I'm trying to understand what new technology he has?
Thanks
Kevin
lorider...To be fair, Mark is "old school" and him not knowing about Sugartree or Eric is not unusual at all. I know about Eric because I met him at the DCC 5 years ago, and played a little with one of his cues. I guarantee you that he knows or knows of at least most of the top 20-30 cuemakers (of which Eric is too new to be included yet). Also, Mark stays pretty much in the east. He's an outstanding table mechanic, and a very sporty player...not to mention a nice guy too. The jury is still out on Mr. Barioni's cues and shafts. To be fair, I am no longer a collector (although I was for 20 years), and outside of here, I've never heard of Barioni cues either.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
John:
Quick question. It obviously seems as though you have shaft-making mastered. I've found that the reduction in deflection is inversely proportional to the hit of the shaft. Meaning, it's my humble opinion that as the shaft's end-mass gets reduced (and filled with something -- cork, foam, rubber, etc), the vibration of the hit is greatly reduced (feels dead - lacking that certain hit harmonic, if that makes sense).
I'm curious to hear your thoughts on that matter. I've always found LD shafts, in general, to feel inferior to solid maple shafts. I'm only talking about the quality/feel of the hit -- not the deflection.
Maybe if we turn this into a technical discussion, it might swing the thread back on track. If people want to pay $600 for a shaft and they think it helps them -- good for everyone involved. I'm used to $250 shafts and I think most serious players are. Amount of labor invested (as you claim) really doesn't determine market value. What determines the market value is quality/experience vs. cost.
Let's be frank -- if your shaft is the end of the world nuts --- $600 might be a good value. I think what a lot of people are thinking is in order for $600 to be a good value, it HAS TO perform and feel OVER twice as good as their current shaft (which they prob already love). That's a big delta.
Hope that makes sense and look forward to your reply-
Dave
Quick question. It obviously seems as though you have shaft-making mastered. I've found that the reduction in deflection is inversely proportional to the hit of the shaft. Meaning, it's my humble opinion that as the shaft's end-mass gets reduced (and filled with something -- cork, foam, rubber, etc), the vibration of the hit is greatly reduced (feels dead - lacking that certain hit harmonic, if that makes sense).
I'm curious to hear your thoughts on that matter. I've always found LD shafts, in general, to feel inferior to solid maple shafts. I'm only talking about the quality/feel of the hit -- not the deflection.
Maybe if we turn this into a technical discussion, it might swing the thread back on track. If people want to pay $600 for a shaft and they think it helps them -- good for everyone involved. I'm used to $250 shafts and I think most serious players are. Amount of labor invested (as you claim) really doesn't determine market value. What determines the market value is quality/experience vs. cost.
Let's be frank -- if your shaft is the end of the world nuts --- $600 might be a good value. I think what a lot of people are thinking is in order for $600 to be a good value, it HAS TO perform and feel OVER twice as good as their current shaft (which they prob already love). That's a big delta.
Hope that makes sense and look forward to your reply-
Dave