Galveston World Classic

[jay helfert]

Why does this make you feel good Jay? It's certainly not a good thing for pool. OH...wait , I get it, your feelings were hurt when they didn't seek out your sage advice.

I would think that someone that loves pool and wants to see it become more successful would be saddened by this tournament not continuing. I don't know what the total was they paid out, I'm guessing around $100k. But apparently, Jay, you feel good about it because you felt slighted in some way. Get your ego in check.

No sale here punter. This ain't about my ego or any hurt feelings. My skin ain't that thin. You're reading way too much into my statement. Nothing about the failure of this event made me feel good. NOTHING! Actually you don't "get it", not even close.

I think they did a credible job in producing this first event and even paid out a huge amount of money. If you ever read any of my posts regarding the event, you would know that. But you would prefer to deal in assumptions. Where they went wrong is closer to the post made by Mark Griffin. They failed to heed some sage advice being offered by several industry people who had been there and done that.

They didn't have to lose their ass on this event and could have lived to fight (and promote) another day. But they chose not to listen to anyone else and go on their merry way, and the result was a catastrophic failure. After blowing all that dough, I KNEW we would never see another Galveston Classic. That realization made me feel bad, knowing that it didn't have to turn out this way. Do you get it now?

 

[punter]

No sale here punter. This ain't about my ego or any hurt feelings. My skin ain't that thin. You're reading way too much into my statement. Nothing about the failure of this event made me feel good. NOTHING! Actually you don't "get it", not even close.

I think they did a credible job in producing this first event and even paid out a huge amount of money. If you ever read any of my posts regarding the event, you would know that. But you would prefer to deal in assumptions. Where they went wrong is closer to the post made by Mark Griffin. They failed to heed some sage advice being offered by several industry people who had been there and done that.

They didn't have to lose their ass on this event and could have lived to fight (and promote) another day. But they chose not to listen to anyone else and go on their merry way, and the result was a catastrophic failure. After blowing all that dough, I KNEW we would never see another Galveston Classic. That realization made me feel bad, knowing that it didn't have to turn out this way. Do you get it now?

I get that you called Bobby Rhone a thief on that thread about the raffle they had. This is just one more group, that put up serious money to try to have a first class event and got hammered from day one by many. That makes a lot of sense Jay, really, a group loses $300k +, and you want to accuse them of being a thief. Over what? Not including delivery charges on a furniture raffle? Sorry, but no sale here either Jay, you had it out for these guys from the gitgo.

 

[jay helfert]

I get that you called Bobby Rhone a thief on that thread about the raffle they had. This is just one more group, that put up serious money to try to have a first class event and got hammered from day one by many. That makes a lot of sense Jay, really, a group loses $300k +, and you want to accuse them of being a thief. Over what? Not including delivery charges on a furniture raffle? Sorry, but no sale here either Jay, you had it out for these guys from the gitgo.

I can't win with you. I can see that. Have it your way.

 

[Ky Boy]

I do know one thing regarding this event....and that is even the match commentators showed no sign of a want or desire to be affiliated with AZ Billiards......let alone for the promotion that happened within these forums to make the event the success (and by that I mean the large number of players who were there) it was.....


But that is neither here nor there.....this is the present!!


Gary

 

[bfdlad]

I can't win with you. I can see that. Have it your way.

Jay I know I saw you there, for some reason I thought that you were working there in some capacity. Am I wrong?
Also just a quick point I jsut thought about, if you wanted them to fail fromthe get go as Punter said, why would you go there and either work or support the event?

Just wondering on both.

 

[SoonerFan]

I think the problem is that this event set a standard that allot of people will think is what a good event should look like. Unfortunately, an event that looks like this will never be a viable profitable venture without several thousand spectators each and every day.

All these new "Promoters" thinks that if they put on an event that is grand and huge and has all the players that it will be a huge success. That is getting the cart before the horse. Veterans like Mark and Jay know that it just won't work like that.

Now, if Mark or Jay were to put on an event that can actually break even, or maybe even make a buck or 2, it will look very low budget and small scale compared to the lavish spending of the Galveston Classic. So what happens is a "REAL" viable event is looked down on because there have been far too many events like this one setting false standards for what is to be expected.

Pool just has too many players and not enough spectators. Remember, players expect to play and make money while spectators expect to pay to watch. We need more spectators.

soonerfan

 

[JoeyA]

Jay I know I saw you there, for some reason I thought that you were working there in some capacity. Am I wrong?
Also just a quick point I jsut thought about, if you wanted them to fail fromthe get go as Punter said, why would you go there and either work or support the event?

Just wondering on both.

Mark,
Jay was not working for Taylor Road Production.

He was just there to check out the event so that he would be able to say, "I told you so".

 

[boradriver]

I get that you called Bobby Rhone a thief on that thread about the raffle they had. This is just one more group, that put up serious money to try to have a first class event and got hammered from day one by many. That makes a lot of sense Jay, really, a group loses $300k +, and you want to accuse them of being a thief. Over what? Not including delivery charges on a furniture raffle? Sorry, but no sale here either Jay, you had it out for these guys from the gitgo.

oh no please don't bring the raffle up again I was just starting to forget about that.

 

[TimKrazyMon]

I don't know the Rhones or anyone else who ran the Galveston tournament. IMO these guys tried to put on a high dollar pro tournament here in the USA, which I think most will agree we have far too few of. I think their motive and intentions were their love of the game of pool. They made some miscalculations (massive understatment) which resulted in some of the purses being less than as advertised, and in them losing quite a bit of money. But, again, IMO. they put on a very good tournament, especially for a first time. Comparing them to KT (not saying that you did) would be unfair, considering KT's track record.

It's their money, so they make the decisions. Saying "I told you so" just seems like, "if they had only listened to me" ("me" should be "anybody") . At any rate, I enjoyed being able to see Efren and Earl, all the other pros, and some old friends at the Galveston tournament. Maybe they will try to do it again in the future at their new place in Houston.

It stands to reason that if you have never put on a pool tournament before that you should probably take the advice of people who have experience at it. Mark Griffin & Jay Helfert alone have several years of experience between them & just some small changes would have made Galveston infinitely more successful. The failure of this event proves the old saying "A fool and his money are soon parted".

 

[jay helfert]

Jay I know I saw you there, for some reason I thought that you were working there in some capacity. Am I wrong?
Also just a quick point I jsut thought about, if you wanted them to fail fromthe get go as Punter said, why would you go there and either work or support the event?

Just wondering on both.

Thanks Mark for wondering. You are absolutely correct, unlike punter who seems to have a hard-on against me for some reason.
I went and I played and I also staked more than one player. Additionally I did my best to help out with the set-up for the online streaming when they had it all F'ed up. I also worked in the booth a couple of matches with JoeyA and that was a blast.

 

[Scott Lee]

punter...The problem is that it wasn't just Jay. There were at least DOZENS of credible people here, with real-world tournament experience, who offered to help, in any way possible (many of which spoke to them either in person, or by phone), to ensure that this event might be successful. ALL of us were turned a "blind eye" to, and ignored, without even the courtesy of private responses. I spoke with Clark and Bobby at the BCA Nationals, where they had a booth to promote the event (too late), and they just weren't interested. BTW, they had no significant money invested in the event...it was a "deep pockets" investor who provided the financing. Sadly, due to the way things turned out, that person is highly unlikely to want to risk any more money in pool.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I don't know the Rhones or anyone else who ran the Galveston tournament. IMO these guys tried to put on a high dollar pro tournament here in the USA, which I think most will agree we have far too few of. I think their motive and intentions were their love of the game of pool. They made some miscalculations, which resulted in some of the purses being less than as advertised, and in them losing quite a bit of money. But, again, IMO. they put on a very good tournament, especially for a first time. Comparing them to KT (not saying that you did) would be unfair, considering KT's track record.

It's their money, so they make the decisions. Saying "I told you so" just seems like, "if they had only listened to me". At any rate, I enjoyed being able to see Efren and Earl, all the other pros, and some old friends at the Galveston tournament. Maybe they will try to do it again in the future at their new place in Houston.

 

[bfdlad]

Thanks Mark for wondering. You are absolutely correct, unlike punter who seems to have a hard-on against me for some reason.
I went and I played and I also staked more than one player. Additionally I did my best to help out with the set-up for the online streaming when they had it all F'ed up. I also worked in the booth a couple of matches with JoeyA and that was a blast.

Ah ok, makes sense to me. Like I said before I have a hard time getting on anyone who tries to do something special and I also know that it ain't easy.

I suppose if you are trying to make something more special than it been done before you have to break the mold a little to make it happen and sometimes people can think, I am not going to listen to them I am doing it different and MY WAY. I guess this way of doing things can sometime pay off but it seems in this case it didn't

When I am getting ready to try and do something a little different like the "Magnificent 7" event I am working on I want to push the envelope and do it my way to a certain extent, however before I get too deep into it I call people like you Jay and Mark Griffin and Justin from TAR and Jerry Forsyth to see if I am crazy first of all and seek out advise or opinions and I gladly take all advise and try to implement it into my plans.

However even with some of the most knowledgable minds in the biz sometime things just don't work and I guess you put it down to a lesson learned, I would not want to learn a $400k lesson though.

Just my thoughts.

 

[bfdlad]

I don't know the Rhones or anyone else who ran the Galveston tournament. IMO these guys tried to put on a high dollar pro tournament here in the USA, which I think most will agree we have far too few of. I think their motive and intentions were their love of the game of pool. They made some miscalculations, which resulted in some of the purses being less than as advertised, and in them losing quite a bit of money. But, again, IMO. they put on a very good tournament, especially for a first time. Comparing them to KT (not saying that you did) would be unfair, considering KT's track record.

It's their money, so they make the decisions. Saying "I told you so" just seems like, "if they had only listened to me". At any rate, I enjoyed being able to see Efren and Earl, all the other pros, and some old friends at the Galveston tournament. Maybe they will try to do it again in the future at their new place in Houston.

Punter, I agree with you also on a couple of your points. I don't agree with your shots at Jay but I do agree that it was their money and if they wanted to make the event different and special they make the calls and do it their way. Hopefully they will do another event at the pool room in Houston. I went to the one they had a year or so ago I didn't know they bought a new one too.

 

[Nostroke]

punter...The problem is that it wasn't just Jay. There were at least DOZENS of credible people here, with real-world tournament experience, who offered to help, in any way possible (many of which spoke to them either in person, or by phone), to ensure that this event might be successful. ALL of us were turned a "blind eye" to, and ignored, without even the courtesy of private responses. I spoke with Clark and Bobby at the BCA Nationals, where they had a booth to promote the event (too late), and they just weren't interested. BTW, they had no significant money invested in the event...it was a "deep pockets" investor who provided the financing. Sadly, due to the way things turned out, that person is highly unlikely to want to risk any more money in pool.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

How in the world could someone accumulate that kinda money and then entrust it to two guys who were absolutely clueless? Im so disappointed that the ones responsible for doing everything wrong didnt bear any of the financial consequences of their actions.

 

[Black-Balled]

How in the world could someone accumulate that kinda money and then entrust it to two guys who were absolutely clueless? Im so disappointed that the ones responsible for doing everything wrong didnt bear any of the financial consequences of their actions.

We don't know the back story of the money, but it surely has one.

 

[Scott Lee]

Walt...True, but in this case, my source got it straight from the horse's mouth!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

We don't know the back story of the money, but it surely has one.

 

[punter]

punter...The problem is that it wasn't just Jay. There were at least DOZENS of credible people here, with real-world tournament experience, who offered to help, in any way possible (many of which spoke to them either in person, or by phone), to ensure that this event might be successful. ALL of us were turned a "blind eye" to, and ignored, without even the courtesy of private responses. I spoke with Clark and Bobby at the BCA Nationals, where they had a booth to promote the event (too late), and they just weren't interested. BTW, they had no significant money invested in the event...it was a "deep pockets" investor who provided the financing. Sadly, due to the way things turned out, that person is highly unlikely to want to risk any more money in pool.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I can certainly see how it is frustrating (to the experienced pool promoters) when someone putting on a tournament like this doesn't want to take advice. And the result was a loss of a lot of money. I don't agree that the tournament was a 'complete failure', as someone else said. As a matter of fact, after the wrinkles were ironed out, I think the streamed matches that JoeyA commentated on were some of the best I've ever watched. What really added to it was Joey had guys like Jeremy Jones and Nick Varner in the booth sharing their pool knowlege.

I went and watched the Efren-Earl matchup and had a great time. I'm disappointed that there won't be another. One reason is that I live close to Galveston and it was an opportunity to see the top pros close to home.

My main disappointment here is that after it was over, I hoped that the pool world would have offered encouragement to these guys, despite their error of not seeking experienced advice. Maybe it wouldn't have mattered considering their heavy losses, but maybe it would have. Instead they get hammered on here with a thread about the furniture raffle (last time Borodriver). I know they saw it because I emailed Bobby Rhone about it and he posted in it. And, BTW, maybe some people did encourage them privately, but there was very little positve about it here, IMO.

Anyhow, another significant money tournament goes down in flames after one edition, and it's a shame. Island Drive says it is a pattern, over years, and the feeling is 'here we go again'. I submit that this kind of thinking can be a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

[Scott Lee]

punter...The main reason there won't be another, is because inexperienced people refused to accept (or even acknowledge) intelligent and sincere offers of help, direction, and support, from people who had done it before (successfully). All of us are disappointed that there won't be another...most of us clearly understand why.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I went and watched the Efren-Earl matchup and had a great time. I'm disappointed that there won't be another. One reason is that I live close to Galveston and it was an opportunity to see the top pros close to home.

 

[punter]

punter...The main reason there won't be another, is because inexperienced people refused to accept (or even acknowledge) intelligent and sincere offers of help, direction, and support, from people who had done it before (successfully). All of us are disappointed that there won't be another...most of us clearly understand why.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

This is certainly true. And if I was one of the peolple that were snubbed after offering advice, maybe I would want to say "I told you so" too. It takes a more intelligent approach to overcome that urge and to offer encouragement despite the snub. As I said maybe it wouldn't matter. But U.S. pool is certainly better off with more tournaments like this one.

 

[jay helfert]

This is certainly true. And if I was one of the peolple that were snubbed after offering advice, maybe I would want to say "I told you so" too. It takes a more intelligent approach to overcome that urge and to offer encouragement despite the snub. As I said maybe it wouldn't matter. But U.S. pool is certainly better off with more tournaments like this one.

I agree Punter, but this one was ill fated from the get go. There is more to this story than meets the eye. I will send you a PM.