glue

CamposCues said:
I see both points and don't care to argue them.

I do think an interesting test, if it hasn't been done already, would be to set two pins on either end of the same piece of wood, with the same amount of each epoxy. Maybe even clear coat the wood. Then see which would break loose easiest, with the least amount of heat, and the least amount of damage to the wood and or clear.

I'd probably choose to use the easier one, on pins at least. I don't think either would fail under normal wear and tear but it sure sucks when you can't get a bent one out without starting the whole cue on fire or drilling it out. I have had a couple, one a McDermott, that would not come out at all. It was frustrating.
Click to expand...

The light of reason in the darkness.............................LOL

Kim
 
Travis Niklich said:
Rick let me first say that I have checked out of this section of the forum as most of the information here is now useless drivel spewed out by people who just heard about it or read it online and regurgitated like it’s now gospel coming out of their mouth like they have years of first hand knowledge about that subject.

I will also say I could care less what glue you use. You could glue your cues together with Hubba bubba bubble gum for all I care.

You choose to throw rocks at an organization and members that you really know nothing about. Until you choose to attend a major trade show and put your work on display for all to see including the best cue makers in the world your barometer of success will be screwed up. You choose to single out Steve Klein for an adversary. A little Background about Steve and his appointment as a member in the ACA one of my mentors in the ACA called to ask me if I would like the appointment for sec. treasure of the ACA. I said I wouldn’t be a good choice as I lack the organizational skill to effectively do it but recommended Steve for the spot. He brings a level of professional experience and attitude that are a great addition to the group. His experience as a naval aviator took a great amount of self-control and I’m sure his background would surely include some amount of engineering education. . While I would describe Steve as controlled and politically correct at all times I’m about as subtle as a sledge hammer.

I can only describe your behavior on here to that of a small child that is seeking any kind of attention even if it’s negative reinforcement for your ridicules actions. Your use of engineering jargon and technical terms only makes you come off as an arrogant ass. Most of the cue makers you have stared problems with have an extensive knowledge of machinery and CNC CAD/CAM and bring a wealth of knowledge about cue making that you simply dismiss because you always know better. The way you wright reminds me of young engineers who come out on the shop floor and try to show up their senior machinist with their use of the human language most of the time they are left looking out of touch as it’s simply not the way machinist speak. It’s not that machinist and machine operators don’t understand it. A great engineer will know the people he is talking to and tailor his speech to the level that is accepted in that group.

I guess it goes back to the old saying in the shop “if you can’t wow them with knowledge, then bedazzle them with BULLSHIT.

I would say you fall into the second half of that statement.
Click to expand...

Travis,

Your are surly entitled to you opinion. Must be nice to be able to read others minds and intentions. Your amazing. Btw throwing stones at other members was never on my mind or in my statements. My only reference to them was to refer to them as a collective. That is not negative in sentiment by any standard.

You can shill for anyone you wish.

I myself am no spring chicken and i do have a vast amount of experience in every mechanical trade practicing for over 30 years in my past profession and I approach what I do in a little different way than you do, obviously.

I really don't know who you are but if you and I compare resumes and skill sets, I am pretty sure you would not talk about me the way you do. However that and a dollar won't get anyone a cup of coffee. Who cares.

The two times I have interfaced with your friend Steve he had gone on a public form and went personal with his comments directed specifically towards me just the way you did in your last post all without any provocation from me whatsoever. The last was a quote he quoted from one of my posts with a condescending remark "it is not with it" while leaving my quote on the board. Why and what's that all about. A slap in the face. You know he was fueling the fire for no good reason and for what, Over glue, come on just think about silly and pointless that is. He can find someone else to be his lap dog.

That first time we butted heads I tried to reach out to him when it cooled off with the hand of reconciliation and he refused the gesture. To me that speaks volumes.

I really don't care what the 30 people you talk about do but if I were part of a group I would try not to attack someone else in that same profession. Poor form and bad taste. Thats why i bring up his voting member thing. As the old saying goes in business, "never knock your competition because every knock is a boost. A funny thing is that it is also true with personal manners.

I don't know anything about you but when someone who does not know me goes out of his way to attack me and call me names I must make a rebuttal in self defense. I sure you get that point.

That's all. You don't have to like me are say goods things about me a can disagree with everything I embrace. I don't care but when someone attacks my character in a condescending way with overt and obvious motives,I must at least give my point of view in rebuttal. Surly you can understand that motivation.

So let others fight there own battles that develop from their own actions I say.

You have no skin is this game so you would be better served minding your own business. I am sorry you don't like the cut of my jib or my long posts, that's just too bad.

The culture of this forum from the way I see it should be to share information in a fashion that embraces peer check and review. Not juvenile behavior about who is right or wrong. Disagreements should be cordial not confrontational.

The funny this is that I do have a lot of respect for Steve because of his background and dedicated service to our country. You see I can compartmentalize my feelings as I know that is the best way to make my personal judgments concerning others.

Rick
 
Last edited:
Travis,

Who cares about what cue makers you have met or who knows you. What's your point this thread was about glue. Re read all my posts, i stayed on the subject until you jumped in like Gladis Cravits meddling ways. Even Steve stayed on subject while were pissing. BTW, Did you get all their autographs so you can put it under your pillow at night and get a warm fuzzy feeling. Get a life and grow up Travis.

I personally have no problem with trade associations as they have their place and also provide a social environment. Nothing wrong with friends getting together. You promote your ACA membership like a red badge of courage that somehow makes you a better cue maker. It does not. So you can make points, do rings, make a compound inlay ect. There are a gazillion guys out there who can do that. So what!

I also hope you feel better about yourself now that you got everything off your chest.

Btw, Steve's rude unprovoked attacks on me on two occasions is indefensible by any standard. He owes me an apology. No one has the right to berate someone else just because they have a different point of view. He nor I are a definitive authority and can only project our views and opinions here and can only base those opinions on observations and historical facts. There are many ways to skin the cat concerning glue in cue making.

I respectfully refuse to take his advice because it is my prerogative to do so. Who do you and he think you are. I myself am guilty of my retaliation comments. I called him the Gestapo the first time two years ago and The Grand High Exhalted Mystic Ruler this time. Wow am I bad!!!

Your professed thinking revealed hear, attitude and the epistemology of you apparent philosophy is rooted in collectivism kinda like communism. Putting the group mindset before individual thinking. I think that is dehumanizing to say the least and I bet you did not even have a hint that creativity is an individual human attribute when you let yourself get free of the chains that apparently are binding you at this point in your life. It's not too late for you to escape the wormhole Travis.

Bad behavior is just what it is. Sorry you can't see that and ignore the basis of this situation because you have blinders on. Plus for the second time, you have no skin in this game. You should to learn to mind your own business as I said. You took that as me attacking you as a cue maker and was quick to tell me how great you are. Maybe you are but I really don't know who you are or what you do frankly. You could be the Tiger Woods of cue makers. Maybe you should promote yourself a little more. LOL,

I think a few years of couch time with a professional and you will be ok.

My only advise to you is when you present an argument or your point of view try to stay on the subject matter and try to support your positions with providence or examples that are credible and factual not your feel good babble. Try it and someday you may get good at it because right now your ego is overwhelming any chance you have to be objective or credible. Just saying!

Rick
 
Last edited:
Travis Niklich said:
You see Rick while your writing style is at a college level your reading comprehension would be a grade school level. Most writing in news papers and what is written online is at a 8 grade level so as to be easily understood by a large group of people.
I will break down what I said and maybe you can understand it better.

"I think" --this is the language that I (Travis) chose to use this is a powerful speech word it means that I and I alone take responsibility for what I'm saying and that it represents my opinion. At no time in my post did I say we or us as to imply that I was speaking for a group or another person other than myself.

"your behavior on the forum reminds me of a child"-- this is to say that your choice in presenting-self and your choice of self-image on this forum is childish. What I never said was you are a child. You could be the Dudley Do-Right and Honest Abe of Cook County,IL for all I know I only commented on your behavior and presenting-self on this forum. It was a metaphoric speech as to say that most adults know how a child acts when they don't get their way.

I only mentioned my affiliation with the ACA and the number of cue makers who have meet me as a way to establish my credibility. It's to say that my work has been judged by a large group of my peers, cue buyers and collectors at major show for a period of over 10 years. It's the only way to accurately judge someones work on a large scale.

This part is where you should pay particular attention. Through the process of self-reflection and social-comparison you can establish if your choice of presenting-self is appropriate for the social-dyad that you are in, in this case the people and cue makers of azbilliards.

You bring up the subject of promoting my product. I choose to promote my products on a national scale by attending trade shows. Your choice to promote your product in the ask the cue makers section is misguided at best. Why would you choose to promote your cues to a group mainly comprised of cue makers not cue customers. Is your business plan to sell cues to cue makers? If you chose to post your marketing in the for sale section of this forum I could ignore it and accept it as simply you trying to spin a salesman's tail or story.

I would say that if you would like to continue in this verbal jousting with me a battle of whit's if you will. I would suggest that you head back to base camp for a few days get some R&R maybe grab your musket and knock the rust out of the barrel, Pick up some dry powder maybe a few extra patches and some minie balls before heading back to the battle. I will be here waiting patiently with my proverbial Barrett 50 cal for your return.

To take it back to glue and installing a ferrule here is how I would describe the process.

Step 1. determine the end of the shaft that represents the tip end of the shaft install said end into a machine or fixture with sufficient accuracy to machine a tenon that closely matches that of the chosen ferrule whether the ferrule is threaded or slip fit.

Step 2. apply a sufficient amount of adhesive with sufficient strength to hold the ferrule in place permanently.

Step 3. trim ferrule to flush with the wood behind the ferrule.

THE END

No need for a 5000 word marketing dissertation.
Click to expand...

Travis,

Just for the record, newspapers are written to a 4th grade standard.

Unlike you, I don't need someone else to establish my credibility. I have eyes and a mind. Believe me I am my biggest critic using the loupe. Some day when you mature a little more you will figure out what I and suggesting to you son.

I especially like the part where you tell me that I would not be qualified to sweep your shop floor. Now tell me who's the child here?? That was really fun to read Travis.

I know your not going to do this but if you take 5 minutes to re read my posts on this thread you will find that all of my posts and underlining sediments were courteous and respectful concerning the subject matter with respect for anyone else's views.

So then, there it is.

Rick
 
scdiveteam said:
Travis,

Just for the record, newspapers are written to a 4th grade standard.

Unlike you, I don't need someone else to establish my credibility. I have eyes and a mind. Believe me I am my biggest critic using the loupe. Some day when you mature a little more you will figure out what I and suggesting to you son.

I especially like the part where you tell me that I would not be qualified to sweep your shop floor. Now tell me who's the child here?? That was really fun to read Travis.

I know your not going to do this but if you take 5 minutes to re read my posts on this thread you will find that all of my posts and underlining sediments were courteous and respectful concerning the subject matter with respect for anyone else's views.

So then, there it is.

Rick
Click to expand...



For the love of god..... Let it go ....... Diarrhea is not good to hold.







.
 
scdiveteam said:
Travis,

Just for the record, newspapers are written to a 4th grade standard.

Unlike you, I don't need someone else to establish my credibility. I have eyes and a mind. Believe me I am my biggest critic using the loupe. Some day when you mature a little more you will figure out what I and suggesting to you son.

I especially like the part where you tell me that I would not be qualified to sweep your shop floor. Now tell me who's the child here?? That was really fun to read Travis.

I know your not going to do this but if you take 5 minutes to re read my posts on this thread you will find that all of my posts and underlining sediments were courteous and respectful concerning the subject matter with respect for anyone else's views.

So then, there it is.

Rick
Click to expand...

"courteous and respectful" :confused: Rick I find many of your posts to be condescending, including this one.

Stop digging Rick ... unless you have too much sediment .. then please carry on.

Dave
 
Travis,

This is where I must bid you adieu.

Using the special needs person as a reference to me is like pulling the race card for someone who attacks a person or a group when the attacker has never walked a mile or even one step in their shoes. That level of insensitivity is outrageous.

I have had the good fortune the be blessed with many things in my life and the best fortune I have is three healthy children who are now young adults.

My wife has done volunteer work with special need children for years and the families of the kids endure many hardships each and every day for the love of them only.

You can bash me all you want. Go ahead a have all the last words. I will never engage in any conversation here with you in the future.

Shame on you!

Rick
 
:deadhorse::shocked2:

I was going to add my three cents and provide specific reasons for using G5 in certain areas and other glues in other areas and most importantly why but with all the experts chiming in, there is no need for me to do so.

Let me see if I have all this correct.
1) some write well and have mounds of statistical data which sounds great and makes a good argument
2) others dislike some and just seem to want to argue regardless what the best is or isn't
3) others dislike the disliking people
4) others think excessive over engineering is the best method to build a cue without any regard to resonance, hit and playability or how that over engineering negatively affects the cues resonance. The strongest is not the best when you want build a cue with feel.

Someone said this.... I'm going to ad lib what was actually stated because I don't want anyone to feel targeted or target their harmonically built cues so on that note he stated that basically he uses the strongest, toughest epoxies because they cling better and become much harder.

Super-Duper 40,000 psi glue that becomes "much harder" is not the best choice in certain construction areas as it stiffens and hardens the cues playability. To make a point, using some glues can mean the difference between playing with a steel rod -vs- using proper glues making the cue resonate like a finely tuned billiard instrument with feel.

Putting a cue together is more than just using the best, toughest, highest strength glues but what is best for the specific purpose/application to make the best structurally engineered cue while still maintaining the best resonance and playability. Super-Duper hardening glues defeat that purpose.

Question: is there any difference in feel, hit, resonance when using lets say G5 -vs- West or 3M in certain parts of construction and which parts if there is any difference? Let's see who can answer this question and why there is a difference if there is in fact any difference at all. I have my experience and opinion, lets hear yours. Anyone? :D

BTW - Happy 4th!
 
JoeyInCali said:
Or I can assume you're full of sh!t and arguing dirty after flipflopping on your epoxy argument .
I had no hand in construction of Z's cues except oversized woods.
And there's a solution to slow set epoxies wicking too much.
And don't think everyone was/is infallible to glue failure.
Don't make repair people come forward and mention all the names they've repaired.
They include hall of famers.
Click to expand...

Joey, what is your solution to slow set epoxies wicking too much? Thx
 
whammo57 said:
Use fast set epoxy.......................

LOL

Kim
Click to expand...

If you keep looking enough, you'll find it in a video.
I'll PM it to the guy who asked.


As far as epoxy resonance, that's another whole can of worms.
A local ex cuemaker used to brag his cues hit the best.
He cored burl with maple and added a bunch of weight.
. He cored braz rosewood with maple since he didn't believe in
Braz's resonance.
He superglued his rings layer by layer for good bond and resonance.

His Ebay sales ran out and his brand died.
Maybe his cues hit too good.



Again, the original question was for an epoxy recommendation
for a UniLoc insert.
 
Last edited:
Any time I want the (more than adequate) strength of slow drying, high strength epoxy but I fear wicking, I just apply the slow-dry glue, let it wick away 'til it's dry, then re-machine, re-glue and assemble. Yeah, slow. I know. I've got the time though.
Woodworkers have been pre-glueing for a very, very long time.

Robin Snyder

I always leave my Radial joint screws unglued until the cue is complete so I can do last minute fiddling with weight and more particularly, balance.
If anyone on here would care to wager a nice amount on whether they can separate glued ones from unglued ones by feel, you've got action. Serious deal.
 
Last edited:
JoeyInCali said:
What is up with this 5-minute epoxy craze?
They're about the worst for construction epoxy.
What's the hurry?
Use a slowset epoxy that clings better and becomes much harder for construction pieces.
Click to expand...

I notice that plenty USA cuemakers use crappy epoxy. 3joint pins got loose from TNT j/b, 1 from Stacey, and last was from Lomax j/b :eek: :eek: :eek:

Lomax got loose plastic insert in jump section ...
 
wicking

carguy said:
Any time I want the (more than adequate) strength of slow drying, high strength epoxy but I fear wicking, I just apply the slow-dry glue, let it wick away 'til it's dry, then re-machine, re-glue and assemble. Yeah, slow. I know. I've got the time though.
Woodworkers have been pre-glueing for a very, very long time.

Robin Snyder

I always leave my Radial joint screws unglued until the cue is complete so I can do last minute fiddling with weight and more particularly, balance.
If anyone on here would care to wager a nice amount on whether they can separate glued ones from unglued ones by feel, you've got action. Serious deal.
Click to expand...



Sorry Robin I am not sure if I understand the term wicking?

MMike
 
peter_gunn said:
I notice that plenty USA cuemakers use crappy epoxy. 3joint pins got loose from TNT j/b, 1 from Stacey, and last was from Lomax j/b :eek: :eek: :eek:

Lomax got loose plastic insert in jump section ...
Click to expand...

:rolleyes:
steve must have used NON-CRAPPY epoxy on the other 5000 cues he's built
it's called "shit happens". happens to the best.
we are dealing with man made chemicals that dont ALWAYS do what they are supposed to do.
i had some epoxy that would not dry, would not harden.
manufacturer said i mixed it wrong . that was bullshit
 
epoxy

I have some 5 min gorilla epoxy that will not harden up.

When glues go bad it is hard to know if you are new to epoxy and glues, and resins.

MMike
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top