Going Pro

[duckie]

I really think that those bashing the ABP are really short sighted in the long term good for pro pool.

I've often wondered how much of the earnings posted for players on the AZ main page are in the players pocket versus whats they earned on paper.

Just think about trying to go pro right now. For this thought experiment, lets say you are pro level material, you got game. Also, you got bills,living expenses and so on.

The equipment cost is really cheap, the cue and case. Equipment up keep is cheap.

So, the only real expenses for a pro player is clothes, travel, food, and lodging. Not all tourneys are held at the local bar or pool room.

So, now, on top of your everyday living expenses, you now have your expenses for your pool.

How you gonna pay for all that? How are you gonna kept from going into debit?

With the slow payouts or none even, lets not forget the USPPA drama, payouts that change from when you entered or not even a guarantee of how much will be paid out, why would anyone really want be be a pro player at this time?

No one has considered those future pro players. Those that gots game, but see the bullshit and say "It's not worth my time for so little return on my investment."

Being a pro player also means being a businessman. A smart business person will not keep losing money on a business. Doesn't make sense. Same with the current state of pro pool. It doesn't make sense to spend xxx dollars only to have slow payouts, no payouts, changed payouts that doesn't even let you break even.

Unless something like what the ABP is doing, the field of pro pool players will keep getting smaller. You want the field to grow in order for pool to survive.

 

[JAM]

I really think that those bashing the ABP are really short sighted in the long term good for pro pool.

I've often wondered how much of the earnings posted for players on the AZ main page are in the players pocket versus whats they earned on paper.

Just think about trying to go pro right now. For this thought experiment, lets say you are pro level material, you got game. Also, you got bills,living expenses and so on.

The equipment cost is really cheap, the cue and case. Equipment up keep is cheap.

So, the only real expenses for a pro player is clothes, travel, food, and lodging. Not all tourneys are held at the local bar or pool room.

So, now, on top of your everyday living expenses, you now have your expenses for your pool.

How you gonna pay for all that? How are you gonna kept from going into debit?

With the slow payouts or none even, lets not forget the USPPA drama, payouts that change from when you entered or not even a guarantee of how much will be paid out, why would anyone really want be be a pro player at this time?

No one has considered those future pro players. Those that gots game, but see the bullshit and say "It's not worth my time for so little return on my investment."

Being a pro player also means being a businessman. A smart business person will not keep losing money on a business. Doesn't make sense. Same with the current state of pro pool. It doesn't make sense to spend xxx dollars only to have slow payouts, no payouts, changed payouts that doesn't even let you break even.

Unless something like what the ABP is doing, the field of pro pool players will keep getting smaller. You want the field to grow in order for pool to survive.

This is so true, what you say. I wish there could be a happy medium where both sides, the pros and the promoters, could eke out a decent profit. As it stands, nobody's getting rich playing pool. The expenses are just too strong. If you were to win $100,000 in a year of tournament winnings, you'd be lucky to pocket half of it, and then there's taxes.

There was on European player who won $64,000 in a tournament on American soil. After he did the chop-chop with his backer, covered expenses, and took out taxes, he ended up pocketing $12,000.

True story! :frown:

 

[Neil]

.............

 

[easy-e]

I really think that those bashing the ABP are really short sighted in the long term good for pro pool.

I've often wondered how much of the earnings posted for players on the AZ main page are in the players pocket versus whats they earned on paper.

Just think about trying to go pro right now. For this thought experiment, lets say you are pro level material, you got game. Also, you got bills,living expenses and so on.

The equipment cost is really cheap, the cue and case. Equipment up keep is cheap.

So, the only real expenses for a pro player is clothes, travel, food, and lodging. Not all tourneys are held at the local bar or pool room.

So, now, on top of your everyday living expenses, you now have your expenses for your pool.

How you gonna pay for all that? How are you gonna kept from going into debit?

With the slow payouts or none even, lets not forget the USPPA drama, payouts that change from when you entered or not even a guarantee of how much will be paid out, why would anyone really want be be a pro player at this time?

No one has considered those future pro players. Those that gots game, but see the bullshit and say "It's not worth my time for so little return on my investment."

Being a pro player also means being a businessman. A smart business person will not keep losing money on a business. Doesn't make sense. Same with the current state of pro pool. It doesn't make sense to spend xxx dollars only to have slow payouts, no payouts, changed payouts that doesn't even let you break even.

Unless something like what the ABP is doing, the field of pro pool players will keep getting smaller. You want the field to grow in order for pool to survive.

I agree it is really difficult to play pool for a living. Maybe if it becomes too difficult, they can find a more profitable way to make a living.

 

[peteypooldude]

It takes a special breed to have the determination to endure
that type of risk.It is a wonder we have ANY pro players
Very good thread Greg :thumbup:

 

[macguy]

It takes a special breed to have the determination to endure
that type of risk.It is a wonder we have ANY pro players
Very good thread Greg :thumbup:

The other side of risk is reward. In this case there is no reward, none. It takes a special breed to live on the streets as well but not something many would aspire to. Pool is not a profession it is a recreation as well as an industry but not really anything you can make a living at playing. No so different then many other recreations. It is nice to get paid to do something you like to do but not any kind right. Many people make money in pool, just not as competitors for prize funds, but within the industry itself.

 

[peteypooldude]

The other side of risk is reward. In this case there is no reward, none. It takes a special breed to live on the streets as well but not something many would aspire to. Pool is not a profession it is a recreation as well as an industry but not really anything you can make a living at playing. No so different then many other recreations. It is nice to get paid to do something you like to do but not any kind right. Many people make money in pool, just not as competitors for prize funds, within the industry.

Goes back to it is amazing anyone would want to go pro. They might be on the street before they win an event. I may be reading you wrong, but it seems to me that you think they are all bums. Is this your viewpoint?
One other thing. Have you ever had to struggle? Did your parents put you through college ?

 

[macguy]

Goes back to it is amazing anyone would want to go pro. They might be on the street before they win an event. I may be reading you wrong, but it seems to me that you think they are all bums. Is this your viewpoint?
One other thing. Have you ever had to struggle? Did your parents put you through college ?

A bum does not start out to become a bum. Life choices as well as unknown factors can have them arrive in a place where they don't want to be. The real challenge is what they do about it. Do they choose to stay in a desperate place or take the initiative to make a better life for themselves. Do they care? We are all free to choose our own paths as long as it is not at the expense of others.

I have to address your use of the term struggle. It can mean different things to different people. I have struggled in my life but with realistic goals, I am not prone to futility. It is am important thing to be able to recognize when making choices.
Being a professional pool player, at least at this time in history, would not be a very good choice of profession regardless of the persons skills. It is similar to being a professional surfer. You may wish to choose the life but don't delude yourself or blame others as to what it really has to offer. You have to be realistic.

 

[bobroberts]

Most pro pool players become pro because they went into a pool hall one day and realized that they liked the game and were good at it. Then they played everyday and skipped school. By the time they realized that there was no money to be made, they were stuck in a nowhere job. On the other hand there were others who realized that pool wouldn't take them anywhere and either learned a trade or went to school for a profession.
Pool for a living has never been great. There has always been a few players who made some good money but the majority of pros don't. Sad and simple fact.

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

Seems like you skipped over a lot of posts on the "cons" of the way the pros are going about it.

And there you have it. I highly doubt there are really very many people that are against professional pool or the players in concept. If you look back in time on this forum you will see that many people who you (not you, Neil) seem to think are "against" the players have been totally in favor of a players association for years and when the announcement came out about the ABP said, "It's about time".

What many people are criticizing is the stance the ABP has taken in regard to the Open and the manner in which they are going about it. This is what is being debated.

Let me give you an extreme example. Say the ABP came out and declared that the ABP board should determine which two players should be seeded directly into the hot seat match because they really feel that this is in the best interest of professional pool, to have at least one hand-picked star in the final so that the event would be the most attractive to potential sponsors. Would you support this? I doubt there are very many ABP members who would support their own association on this.

I really don't believe are very many of us who don't support the players or professional pool in principle. Many of the most vocal critics in this situation care deeply about the players and the professional game, and want both to succeed.

 

[genomachino]

Great post...........

I really think that those bashing the ABP are really short sighted in the long term good for pro pool.

I've often wondered how much of the earnings posted for players on the AZ main page are in the players pocket versus whats they earned on paper.

Just think about trying to go pro right now. For this thought experiment, lets say you are pro level material, you got game. Also, you got bills,living expenses and so on.

The equipment cost is really cheap, the cue and case. Equipment up keep is cheap.

So, the only real expenses for a pro player is clothes, travel, food, and lodging. Not all tourneys are held at the local bar or pool room.

So, now, on top of your everyday living expenses, you now have your expenses for your pool.

How you gonna pay for all that? How are you gonna kept from going into debit?

With the slow payouts or none even, lets not forget the USPPA drama, payouts that change from when you entered or not even a guarantee of how much will be paid out, why would anyone really want be be a pro player at this time?

No one has considered those future pro players. Those that gots game, but see the bullshit and say "It's not worth my time for so little return on my investment."

Being a pro player also means being a businessman. A smart business person will not keep losing money on a business. Doesn't make sense. Same with the current state of pro pool. It doesn't make sense to spend xxx dollars only to have slow payouts, no payouts, changed payouts that doesn't even let you break even.

Unless something like what the ABP is doing, the field of pro pool players will keep getting smaller. You want the field to grow in order for pool to survive.

Hi there and you have hit on some good points.

I traveled and taught for about a year. The road is a little tougher right now because everything is just a little rediculous as far as motel,gas and food plus whatever else might pop up and it does.

Some people thought I made a ton of money teaching and selling videos but the bottom line was the bank account was pretty skinny after the year. The road is like a big hungry monster that just keeps gobbling up your money.

I had guaranteed money with the lessons and gambled some and won some tournaments but again the bottom line is the road monster just ate up the money.

I could never justify traveling to some of the pro tournys because of the expenses involved from the overpriced motels to traveling and eating. It's just too much not to mention all the top players in the world competing for a slice of the cheese that is just to small to go around.

I played on the tour in 98 and 99. $500 entry, $700 travel exspence and $700 to $900 for motel. I had usually around $2,000 invested before I hit a ball.

I learned from experience that this was a tough way to go. Almost rediculous. It was a good way to stay broke.

I like my gig right now alot better. I'm in Appleton, Wi working as a contractor for the summer to get enough cash to buy a fairly nice motorhome. This will cut out much of the exspence as far as motel rooms. Plus I will alway have the food I need being diabetic and the bed will always be close so I can get the proper rest. This will also allow me to be rested when someone wants to step up and gamble a little.

But I will be limited to only playing the tournys that are near me. The motorhome will make it pretty exspensive to travel accross the country but it will be Perfect for going from state to state, poolhall to poolhall.

The time frame for the start of my new journey teaching Perfect Aim will be when it starts to get cold up here in Wisconsin. Sometime in Oct or Nov. Plus the motorhome prices reall drop once the summer is coming to a close. i should get more bang for my buck.

Plus the New video will be done about the same time. Perfect timing for sure.

I can't wait to get on the road again because I am one of those players that just loves the road. Every town, state and pool hall is a new adventure with some great players but most of all the local players that work hard for a living that just love the game to play. This is the heart of the pool industry. And I've met so many nice people that always made me feel right at home. I cherish every friendship that I have made in my travels so far and plan on continuing making friends and teaching for years to come. And the motorhome I feel is a must.

But I have to be honest, it is kind of nice being in one spot and making that pay check every week for sure. Do a little golfing and fishing and just enjoying life. It's almost like taking a vacation from pool for now.

But like I said when it starts to get cold the wheels will hit the road again and the word will be out as to where my next stop will be.

If your doing something you enjoy you will never work a day in your life.

And that is a very true statement for anyone that teaches pool.

But the road is the one thing that actually makes it seem like alot of work sometimes. So you really have to love it and I do.

My hats off to all the teachers in the world that teach and have to travel to teach. You have to love it to do it and teach it.

Great post . Tough way to go. Traveling and playing in the pro tournys around the country. Some great sponsors would be great but there's not enough of them to go around it seems or not enough money.

 

[Scott Lee]

JAM...Still not a bad payday...for less than a week's "work"! No doubt there were dozens of other players who didn't do as well!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

There was on European player who won $64,000 in a tournament on American soil. After he did the chop-chop with his backer, covered expenses, and took out taxes, he ended up pocketing $12,000.

True story! :frown:

 

[JAM]

JAM...Still not a bad payday...for less than a week's "work"! No doubt there were dozens of other players who didn't do as well!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Scott, surely you jest.

How many times a year do you think a pro player in today's tournament trail comes in first place? We all know the answer.

Most pro players are so stuck from other tournaments due to entry fee, travel, lodging, and food -- EXPENSES -- that even when they win that $12,000 for a good payday, they may have $50,000 in debt still owed from previous tournaments throughout the year.

And the dozens of other players who paid their $2,000 entry fee for this particular tournament were indeed stuck.

What's happening in America today is the leagues, regional tours, and social shooting. Pro pool truly is not happening anymore, the way it used to, on American soil.

We can all criticize pro players for choosing the lifestyle they did; that's a given. It always amazes me personally to see the biggest bullies on these forums who brutally attack pro players verbally are the first to stand in line at a pool event to ask for an autograph or a photo opp.

 

[alphadog]

JAM...Still not a bad payday...for less than a week's "work"! No doubt there were dozens of other players who didn't do as well!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

As you know that "week" happens once ,twice,three,???, times in a pro's life.
Somewhat knocks the shine off,huh?

 

[pletho]

Hi there and you have hit on some good points.

I traveled and taught for about a year. The road is a little tougher right now because everything is just a little rediculous as far as motel,gas and food plus whatever else might pop up and it does.

Some people thought I made a ton of money teaching and selling videos but the bottom line was the bank account was pretty skinny after the year. The road is like a big hungry monster that just keeps gobbling up your money.

I had guaranteed money with the lessons and gambled some and won some tournaments but again the bottom line is the road monster just ate up the money.

I could never justify traveling to some of the pro tournys because of the expenses involved from the overpriced motels to traveling and eating. It's just too much not to mention all the top players in the world competing for a slice of the cheese that is just to small to go around.

I played on the tour in 98 and 99. $500 entry, $700 travel exspence and $700 to $900 for motel. I had usually around $2,000 invested before I hit a ball.

I learned from experience that this was a tough way to go. Almost rediculous. It was a good way to stay broke.

I like my gig right now alot better. I'm in Appleton, Wi working as a contractor for the summer to get enough cash to buy a fairly nice motorhome. This will cut out much of the exspence as far as motel rooms. Plus I will alway have the food I need being diabetic and the bed will always be close so I can get the proper rest. This will also allow me to be rested when someone wants to step up and gamble a little.

But I will be limited to only playing the tournys that are near me. The motorhome will make it pretty exspensive to travel accross the country but it will be Perfect for going from state to state, poolhall to poolhall.

The time frame for the start of my new journey teaching Perfect Aim will be when it starts to get cold up here in Wisconsin. Sometime in Oct or Nov. Plus the motorhome prices reall drop once the summer is coming to a close. i should get more bang for my buck.

Plus the New video will be done about the same time. Perfect timing for sure.

I can't wait to get on the road again because I am one of those players that just loves the road. Every town, state and pool hall is a new adventure with some great players but most of all the local players that work hard for a living that just love the game to play. This is the heart of the pool industry. And I've met so many nice people that always made me feel right at home. I cherish every friendship that I have made in my travels so far and plan on continuing making friends and teaching for years to come. And the motorhome I feel is a must.

But I have to be honest, it is kind of nice being in one spot and making that pay check every week for sure. Do a little golfing and fishing and just enjoying life. It's almost like taking a vacation from pool for now.

But like I said when it starts to get cold the wheels will hit the road again and the word will be out as to where my next stop will be.

If your doing something you enjoy you will never work a day in your life.

And that is a very true statement for anyone that teaches pool.

But the road is the one thing that actually makes it seem like alot of work sometimes. So you really have to love it and I do.

My hats off to all the teachers in the world that teach and have to travel to teach. You have to love it to do it and teach it.

Great post . Tough way to go. Traveling and playing in the pro tournys around the country. Some great sponsors would be great but there's not enough of them to go around it seems or not enough money.

Hey Gene, it's Steve Wells from Kansas City, we played lots in tourneys together at the brass rail, and other places, glad to see you got your product out to the public...... if you ever need any graphic design work or web design work or web graphics done, we can work something out for sure.....

Also, thanks for the aiming tips before your product was actually out.....