Gold Crown I
- Thread starter Cdryden
- Start date
The guy must be on crack!!!! I don't think a brand new GCV is $10k. They are actually listed in the Granger catalog for $10,995, maybe that's where he got his pricing.:rotflmao1:
Unless the table had some correct work performed on it, I wouldn't give over $500 for it, and that's on the high side and had better be in good to better condition.
Don't you think that's a real low-ball number? If a guy don't have $6k plus for a Diamond it seems a GC is a good choice. I don't think you are better off buying some Chinese MDF table do you? I think even some of the Olhausens are MDF? A Diamond to most people plays the best but its still a matter of preference. If someone wants to pay less than a new Diamond price what table is he better off getting? For the most part I think most will agree the GC is probably the second best table out there and its not like the GC plays bad, just different, it just becomes an issue if you have to replace cushions cause the Monarchs are no longer available, correct? Its pretty sad if your only 2 choices are $500 or $6k
Depends on condition!
$2500 isn't necessarily unreasonable if the table was only used by a home owner, has had rails recalibrated, pockets properly tightened with subrail extensions and new high quality cushions installed. Also take into consideration the condition of the formica, aprons, castings, pockets, etc. :thumbup:
Now, will the guy actually ever get $2500 for it.... very doubtful. :boring2:
Most Gold Crowns I see usually go for around $1000. Sometimes you will find cheaper deals but chances are, the table has been used and abused and will need a ton of work to get it looking and playing up to par.
$2500 isn't necessarily unreasonable if the table was only used by a home owner, has had rails recalibrated, pockets properly tightened with subrail extensions and new high quality cushions installed. Also take into consideration the condition of the formica, aprons, castings, pockets, etc. :thumbup:
Now, will the guy actually ever get $2500 for it.... very doubtful. :boring2:
Most Gold Crowns I see usually go for around $1000. Sometimes you will find cheaper deals but chances are, the table has been used and abused and will need a ton of work to get it looking and playing up to par.
I have plenty of friends who've bought GC, s....all models out of pool rooms going broke for well under $500 a table, hell I even picked up 2 GC3's for free...just haul them away...after installing some Diamonds, because the retirement center didn't want to have to deal with storing them until they could find a buyer. There's plenty of table mechanics sitting on GC's that bought them real cheap as an investment, thinking they'd be able to turn right around and sell them and makea nice little profit, only they didn't see how the buyers market has changed, and the fact that the GC's are getting older and older, therefore worth less by the day....UNLESS someone fixes them up right...and I don't mean installing new cushions and calling it rebuilt.
Think about it this way, pick up a GC at what ever the deal price is, the fork out at least another $2,000+ to get the table moved, rebuilt to play right, then set up to play on. Now lets say you bought a GC1 for $1,500...add $2,000 and that brings your investment up to $3,500 for a GC1....really?...for a GC1? Diamond sells tables in that same ball park...ready to go used, so why would anyone invest $3,500+ into a GC1...OR 2 for that matter
Glen
perfectpocketz
Banned
Think about it this way, pick up a GC at what ever the deal price is, the fork out at least another $2,000+ to get the table moved, rebuilt to play right, then set up to play on. Now lets say you bought a GC1 for $1,500...add $2,000 and that brings your investment up to $3,500 for a GC1....really?...for a GC1? Diamond sells tables in that same ball park...ready to go used, so why would anyone invest $3,500+ into a GC1...OR 2 for that matter
Glen
Maybe because the GC are the best made tables ever....that's why there still around 40 and 50 years later....and even Brunswick tables older.
New sub rails and new cushions....what table's going to play better?
Brunswick builds tables for life....no other table manufacturing company can make the statement.
Most GC tables coming from a poolroom were totally put to the test from the player abuse to the hack mechanic really abusing table for years and years.
What other table do you or anyone know of that is still standing after 50 years.
Mark Gregory
I'll chime in and say I have owned both a GC-I and a brand new Diamond Pro. I played the GC for twenty years, sold it, and bought the Diamond. I played it for 13 years and never fell in love; I missed the classic feel of a GC. I sold the Diamond couple years ago and recently purchased a GC-II. And yes, I paid big bucks for a privately owned (since new) table, pristine condition, recovered only once, and never disassembled until moved to my home. The original cushions still play great; I don't think the table had much use over its life; its condition is amazing. Aside from a few small fixes/improvements, I kept everything original including the blue apron paint scheme and took a full two months to inspect, clean, and re-assemble. The table just gleams in its originality. As a player with 50+ years experience, the playability of the table leaves nothing to be desired. I guess we all have our opinions and preferences confirming the notion that variety is indeed the spice of life...
Not a mechanic, but I have used their services.
If you buy an old Diamond it has to be rebuilt with the new rails; that isn't very cheap is it?
GCs have definitely withstood the test of time, play nice, and have classic good looks.
If I was to buy a brand new table, I might have to give the edge to Diamond based on their support of US pool and where they are made. I guess that eventually I could get used to how they look.
GV IV owner
If you buy an old Diamond it has to be rebuilt with the new rails; that isn't very cheap is it?
GCs have definitely withstood the test of time, play nice, and have classic good looks.
If I was to buy a brand new table, I might have to give the edge to Diamond based on their support of US pool and where they are made. I guess that eventually I could get used to how they look.
GV IV owner
GC's tear shaped formica-topped rails are the best imo.
They make the balls more " visible " if that makes sense.
When you go down on a shot, that view is only available on Gold Crowns.
What you see from the opposite rail is 90% ( if that ) the cloth of the rubber .
GC's frame are better than anyone's I think. Maybe the AMf Grand Prix comes close.
You put well-done GC's in a pool hall along with any other table, most players will choose the Gold Crown. It was proven at Hard Times years ago.
They make the balls more " visible " if that makes sense.
When you go down on a shot, that view is only available on Gold Crowns.
What you see from the opposite rail is 90% ( if that ) the cloth of the rubber .
GC's frame are better than anyone's I think. Maybe the AMf Grand Prix comes close.
You put well-done GC's in a pool hall along with any other table, most players will choose the Gold Crown. It was proven at Hard Times years ago.
perfectpocketz
Banned
The Gold Crown 5 is light years ahead of any table today on the market.
Best looking of all GC table for sure.....best built frame of any table made today.
Brunswick has made some awesome changes from all the GC tables of past.
They figured out all the little mistakes from the other GC's and put all the changes into the GC5.
I know this because I had a good bit of imput into the GC5 table.....I have one in my house and love the table.....I did make the mistake of changing the cushions to Artemis......but as soon as I have free time to make the change back to the super speed....I will.
So many great changes to the table are just what the GC tables needed.
Trust me...if you have the chance to see or play on one...I believe you'll really like the table.
No...I don't work for Brunswick.....I just love the way Brunswick built the GC5.
Mark Gregory
Best looking of all GC table for sure.....best built frame of any table made today.
Brunswick has made some awesome changes from all the GC tables of past.
They figured out all the little mistakes from the other GC's and put all the changes into the GC5.
I know this because I had a good bit of imput into the GC5 table.....I have one in my house and love the table.....I did make the mistake of changing the cushions to Artemis......but as soon as I have free time to make the change back to the super speed....I will.
So many great changes to the table are just what the GC tables needed.
Trust me...if you have the chance to see or play on one...I believe you'll really like the table.
No...I don't work for Brunswick.....I just love the way Brunswick built the GC5.
Mark Gregory
Don't need to argue with you Mark, but I just moved and set up a GC3. Original buyer bought it in Dec 1976, sat in his house until I sold it, and delelivered it, just finished yesterday....and its only had two cloths on the table since new...and get this...REAL slate, pinned and doweled...withe the worst frame I've ever seen on a GC in the 30 years since I've been working on pool tables.
Here's something you can stick in your pipe and smoke...if Diamond would have came out with their current ProAm today....in 1961 to compete with the Brunswick GC1....they might have had to give them away for free just so they could say that had some out there!
Hell, I've seen 13 year old Diamonds with the Dymondwood rails that when buffed up...still look new, while the GC4's in the same room look beat to shit.
The only reason why you're so pro Brunswick GC's is because you make a living on rebuilding the rails on them...be honest with yourself Mark, you don't need to try and knock Diamonds just to find some work.
For what its worth, I ALSO like rebuilding the GC's too, because they're way more challenging to rebuild than a Diamond is...because by the time I get my hands on them, they all seem to be at the end of their usefulness.
And I'm still WAITING on that one customer that tells me they want their rebuilt GC to play like a new GC....REALLY? No, everyone wants them to play like a Diamond buddy, not like the original GC!!!
Table
When people say they want their table to play like a diamond I think they are referring to the pockets and not the entire table...the people ask how to get their valley like a diamond they don't know the difference between a bird from a bat...
Rob.M
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When people say they want their table to play like a diamond I think they are referring to the pockets and not the entire table...the people ask how to get their valley like a diamond they don't know the difference between a bird from a bat...
Rob.M
perfectpocketz
Banned
Glen...first off I'm not knocking diamonds.....I'm simple telling the truth about the Brunswick GC tables.
Never did I mention anything about GC are better than diamonds...the statements I said were the GC frame is better than any table made today.
Your the man thou.....you know everything....so me know it all...where am I going wrong....who makes a better frame?
Sure the dymond wood is going to last years and years.......what does that have to do with me saying that the GC5 is not only the best looking table....it also plays better than any tables today.
Maybe....just maybe your up set that I had a lot of input on the GC5.....and check out what a great design...and frame...and playability.
Now on the same hand you claim you designed the diamond bar tables...is that right?
Now any mechanic in their right mind would know that GC tables are more solid.....better looking....and play better than any table out here today.
I don't need to try and get work.....I can't get through the work and rails I have now......just because you do shit rail work....doesn't mean I'm knocking tables to get rebuilds.
And further more people don't want their GC to play like a diamond....like rob said....they want the table to have tighter pockets and better angles.
Your the guy that sold the country on Artemis cushions for their tables....and yes...I believed you as well.....until I said...you know what...Glens wrong again...just as you tried to change the way I was doing rail work....with your patch job system.
Look...I have no interest in going round and round with you.....I know your rail work first hand.....and some people are starting to catch on as well.
This was about GC tables.....but as usual...you make it about what you want.
I have always told the truth to everyone thats ever ask me a question on AZ...now what I tell them is what I think of tables or cushions....that don't make anything written in stone.
But you can take someone else having and answer that don't match who you think.
Look...AZ Billiards might think your who done it......but my opinion....your full of shit.
You try and steer everyone to diamonds.....do I get on here and knock you for that...NO
This is not your forum....I know you think it is.....but it's here for others as well.
So trying to knock my rails.....or who...or how I do my business...has nothing to do with you.
Send your work to Zack...or anyone else you like...I don't and never did need you references.
Go to harbor freight...pick up some more high quality tools....and try working.
I'm tired of getting in to it with you.....all it does is make me look like you....a know it all.
You want to talk about diamond tables...go right ahead.....I have no hard feelings, but this was me answering something I believe to be true....not asking for your opinion if I'm right.
Like I said.....I do my work everyday.....don't need to pick up the phone and ask if I'm doing things right.
(I KNOW WHAT I'M DOING ) remember I'm the guy that showed you what I was doing with rails....not you showing me.
Don't let the fumes of the truck bogle your thinking.....try to think clearly before you knock Brunswick GC.....really makes you look dumb.
Mark Gregory
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JC
Coos Cues
Hi Mark I've heard you say this more than once. Can you list the things different about the 5 from the 3 era that were improved to make it better in your opinion? Just curious what they identified and dealt with. Thanks,
JC
perfectpocketz
Banned
Sure...I'm glad you ask....and it's a great question.
First of all the frame was modified in the fact that all 4 center t-style beams are now locked into the long side so as to keep the frame from rolling down. The frame is butcher blocked and sanded flush...for perfect alignment.
The rails have been cut at 45degree angles to lock the rails and castings
together....not allowing the rails to get pushed in or out.
The rails have a small dado cut out in the back...with metal trim for your finger to brace on the rails. (Players love that )
For the first time Brunswick offers a 4.5 corner on the tournament table from the factory. That's the mahogany table...the black comes with 5 corners.
The blinds have small trim work under the castings but on the top of blind to Aline them together better and stronger.
The big ball box on the rack end of the table is now just a small ball box cut into the side of the end blind. Very sporty looking.
The table has those changes....with don't seem like much...but were needed for a much more solid table.
The frames on the GC was always great......the 5 just made the frame the best in the world.
Plus...not to mention how easy it is to work on the 5s.
Trust me....I don't see them making the GC 6 anytime soon....this table's going to be hard to out do.
Don't get me wrong....I do believe that the GC1-2-3-4 can all play as well as the 5......it's all about who works on your table...but more importantly who works on your rails.
I've just finished 3 GC 4 tables with new sub rails to my spec's...with Brunswick super speed cushions....also with 4-1/8th corners....and have heard nothing but how great the tables play....and that's from guy's like Johnny Archer....the mechanic makes a world of difference.
I'm not selling myself.....I'm stating how good Brunswick GC tables truly are.
I put a GC 5 in Johnny Archers house 5 years ago....he still won't let anyone other than me work on it.....and wants no other table in the world in his house....that's from him......not my opinion.
Mark Gregory
Mark, JA has had his GC5 for 5 years now ?
Have they been around that long?
Have they been around that long?