Got Strong-Armed for my Winnings Last Night (long story, small amount, but amazing)

I dont understand why you are not posting the name and address of this pool hall.If we know which place it is we wont go .You might also be saving someone from getting into a similar situation there.That is unless the story is B.S. and you are just looking to hear someone elses story.
 
bobroberts said:
I dont understand why you are not posting the name and address of this pool hall.If we know which place it is we wont go .You might also be saving someone from getting into a similar situation there.That is unless the story is B.S. and you are just looking to hear someone elses story.
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I have sent bobroberts the name and address of the bar and the story is not BS. My explanation given to him is as follows:

The reason that I haven't publicly posted the name and address is because I am still debating on whether I should let this out and have it get back to the place. If the owner is even somewhat reputable, the bouncer will be fired and I may have a 300 lb muscle head doing everything in his power to find out who I am and to come after me. Remember, I drove there and they certainly saw my license plates--because they are personalized and are very hard to forget.

Am I afraid--not today...but why push this thing any further and risk even more problems.
 
Where was the base of the ball touching the cloth. I always thought that was the dertimining factor of if the ball was in or out of the kitchen...If on the line its out.

That does not really matter though.....And I am not even certain that it was a blatant attempt to cheat on thier part...I just don't think they understood the rule....When you challenged thier integrety, they took it the wrong way...

I would have probably just given them the benefit of the doubt and continued playing...You were the outsider here so you have to play by thier rules or don't play.....I think the problem here is that you came accross as a stubborn person, but you ran into people that are just as stubborn as you are...

There is way more to bar gambling with unkowns than just playing good pool. You have to learn to take thier money and have them like you taking it.....You might have made friends with these guys by just saying..."Hey I will play by your rules here, but whoever wins this game buys the next round of drinks"....At this point though you probably don't want these guys as friends...all because of a lack of understanding of rules and both sides being "stubborn" and/or feeling challenged on thier own turf...(so to speak)

If this had not made you quit all together, I would suggest you go to the Danny Basovish School of gambling.
 
BRKNRUN said:
Where was the base of the ball touching the cloth. I always thought that was the dertimining factor of if the ball was in or out of the kitchen...If on the line its out.

That does not really matter though.....And I am not even certain that it was a blatant attempt to cheat on thier part...I just don't think they understood the rule....When you challenged thier integrety, they took it the wrong way...

I would have probably just given them the benefit of the doubt and continued playing...You were the outsider here so you have to play by thier rules or don't play.....I think the problem here is that you came accross as a stubborn person, but you ran into people that are just as stubborn as you are...

There is way more to bar gambling with unkowns than just playing good pool. You have to learn to take thier money and have them like you taking it.....You might have made friends with these guys by just saying..."Hey I will play by your rules here, but whoever wins this game buys the next round of drinks"....At this point though you probably don't want these guys as friends...all because of a lack of understanding of rules and both sides being "stubborn" and/or feeling challenged on thier own turf...(so to speak)

If this had not made you quit all together, I would suggest you go to the Danny Basovish School of gambling.
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The base of the ball was over the line and my opponent new that it was because he said that it was 60% over. They knew darn well what the rule was, because they came back with the ridiculous proposition that the edge of the ball needed to be completely not on the line at all to consider it playable.

I actually did eventually accept their "rule" and just played the ball like it was in the kitchen...but that didn't matter. They were bound and determined to keep playing and raising the bet until they won...and if I quit, they were planning on doing exactly what they did--strong-arm me and get their money back so that they can play some weaker players.

I'm not saying that I was smart in how I acted at all. I definitely should have quit when the debate started and just let them have the $10...but, yes...I was stubborn and therefore stupid and kept playing. I definitely learned my lesson...and thanks for pondering this with me...my talking/writing about this event is actually helping to calm me down knowing that this type of stuff is much more common than I realized.
 
I agree

Hal said:
There is not much good that can come from gambling in a bar. I'm 5'9" and 280lbs. I will not go into a bar alone and gamble. People will stab/shoot you during a moment of rage. I was in some shady bars while in the Marines. "Shootingarts" I have seen a cue stick broken in half and shoved into someones face also. It's not a pretty sight. It's just a bad idea. Period.
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Hal,

Being fifteen and green as a gourd I got myself in a stupid situation on the strip in Port Allen LA. Anybody that knows that strip from 30-40 years ago knows that there was law there, bought and paid for by the club owners. My options were to get mugged and maybe badly injured by someone several inches taller and a hundred pounds heavier than I was or fight my way out on my own. It wasn't going to happen bare handed. I was very lucky in those years that I wasn't killed and never killed anyone else.

I went into places barefoot then that I wouldn't go into heeled now. By good fortune I have little in the way of scars to show for it. Some friends died in those places and cuttings and stompings were nightly events. The thread starter here and another thread starter from a few months ago indicate that Get A Grip is very new to gambling in bars. Hopefully, my posts and others will make him realize that trouble will happen sooner or later if you gamble in bars, over anything or nothing, guaranteed. The other thing he obviously didn't realize is that the only support you usually have in a bar regardless of where it is at is who or what you bring with you.

Anything I did was to allow me to get to my vehicle. Once things went to hell my only priority was getting out of there, fast! I wasn't foolish enough to stay around to debate right or wrong or risk a raw deal with the law. Often anything that got me out without injury and without the law chasing me was the best I could hope for.

Hu
 
These stories remind me of why I don't play for money in bars anymore. There are actually people who will stab or shoot you over a $2 game of pool. I bought a table a few years ago, and I have friends over to play.
 
Unfortunately, that's all too typical of bar pool. When I was in my early 20's, my friends and I hit the local bars for about 6 months. We were each making $100 to $200 a week cash while we were in school. About once in 4 visits, something like this would happen. Actually, since I'm pretty big nobody bothered me directly, but two of my friends were threatened in the bathroom, short punched (like you were) and we had to be escorted out by the bartenders and bouncers several times when jerks were threatening us in the parking lot.

What happens is the winners in local bars become territorial. They think the winnings are an entitlement for them, so if a better player comes in and starts beating their fish, they threaten them.

If you find yourself in this situation again, just tell the bartender that you will call the police if they won't. The bars are scared of police cars pulling up because of neighborhood image problems.

My best advice is just play for whatever the standing bet is in a bar, win three or four games, and lose. Quit if things look like they're heading south. One night I held the table for 5 hours in a bar and everyone in the place wanted to kill me, including the women.


Chris
 
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If you are going to go out by yourself and play for even small stakes, carry a tiny bottle of mace in your pocket. Next time you start feeling shit is going sour, when they are looking in your direction check your watch and say something like "oh shit I'm gotta go" and just take off. If you get followed out in the parking lot, stick your hand in your pocket and be ready to pull out the mace. If they approach you, one quick spray in the face and they are done. Your mistake is staying there once you noticed they were getting hostile. I've seen alot of fights in poolhalls, and the assaultee almost always curls up into a ball and is too afraid to walk outside. So they stick around hoping people will calm down, but that never happens.
 
LastTwo said:
If you are going to go out by yourself and play for even small stakes, carry a tiny bottle of mace in your pocket. Next time you start feeling shit is going sour, when they are looking in your direction check your watch and say something like "oh shit I'm gotta go" and just take off. If you get followed out in the parking lot, stick your hand in your pocket and be ready to pull out the mace. If they approach you, one quick spray in the face and they are done. Your mistake is staying there once you noticed they were getting hostile. I've seen alot of fights in poolhalls, and the assaultee almost always curls up into a ball and is too afraid to walk outside. So they stick around hoping people will calm down, but that never happens.
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Hey, I think that you're all giving good advice. But I distinctly got the feeling that this guys ego was as big as Texas and that there was no way that he was going to let me get into my car without getting that money first. And remember, there was a total of five of them (including the bouncer). Mace or pepper spray might have worked on one, but I doubt that I could have zapped all five before they tackled me.

Of course, I could be wrong--but when things got hopeless, I knew that I had to give him the money. Even then I wasn't quite sure if he would let me leave without clocking me in the parking lot.

One additional thing...when I was walking out someone stopping the big guy and asked him what was going on and the guy with a straight face was telling him the story that we were only playing for a buck a game. How in the world do they all think that I got the guys $15--by pickpocketing him...LOL.
 
I used to play in bars in college alot, saw a few fights. Avoided getting in them by leaving early or losing a game if needed. Bars I played in I made sure to make plenty of friends the first few nights I was there. Buying drinks and and being friendly. Always tipped the staff well too. Never had any real problems, though these were often the town bars and not the college bars.

I quit going out to bars about 10 years ago. So much easier to just get a few people you play that like to gamble.
 
Maybe they just finished watching "The Hustler"

There is really something about this stupid story that bothers me. I would be embarassed to post it but I can just ignore that part due to your obvious inexperience an immaturity.
First of all it was obvious these guys were regulars and you were the outsider.
It seemed like everything would have been o.k. until you started whining to the bouncer and bar tender and then you had the audacity to call them cheaters. Listen young man you do not insult people on their own turf. Something else you need to know, all bars and all pool rooms have their own rules. Did you ever find out? No. In my pool room( I mean my own) the rule is any ball touching the line is in the kitchen. I don't care if it's one percent, if u could possibly see that, it is in the kitchen. Saves tons of arguments or any questions.
Now you think these guys are hassling you over a couple of bucks. If that was the case you would have left with nothing. There were not pulling anything. They probably figured out they were being hustled , then you called them names and they were not going to take it and ganged up on you.
Happens all the time in a crowded drunk bar.
You did not explain how you guys got to match up so often so quick in a crowded bar with people putting quarters up. How could you possibly do that. If he was lousy he would have lost the next game. It makes your story sound suspicious.
I suggest you start carrying a cell phone then you won't need someone to call the cops and you can do it anonymously. You had no guts whatsoever not to call the cops if you were getting strong armed. And I doubt very much they were looking at your plates which would do no good as as registrations are not available to the public. Sounds to me you are just trying to justify your answers people are putting to you. I would publicize the place in a heartbeat if it is that bad. I think the story is embellished.
Remember you started the shit.
By the way how old is everybody in this burg in Northern Illinois. Sounds like it is in the sticks and you are all hicks. At least you should have learned to keep your mouth shut or not try to hustle a group. FWIW
 
If a SUCKER says that the ball is in the kitchen and I am alone in his joint then its in the kitchen. Why did you not just kick at a ball?
You have the nuts. If you dont win the game and if you smell trouble then just leave a little down. No biggee.
If you win and keep playing but smell trouble then plan your exit then and maybe break even or quit a game loser.

If you were in most hangouts and quit winner while calling the local a cheater I dont think you would have just got a lovetap to the nuts.
You are lucky in this case. Very stupid move.
 
nfty9er said:
By the way how old is everybody in this burg in Northern Illinois. Sounds like it is in the sticks and you are all hicks. At least you should have learned to keep your mouth shut or not try to hustle a group. FWIW
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The place is in the Chain o' Lakes area up north of Chicago, he gave me the name of the town and Bar, but I am not going to give it up... River rats and Biker Gangs up there, preyin on tourists comin to fish and whatnot from the City... I'd say callin it the sticks is bout right...

About as close to Wisconsin as you can get without bein called a cheesehead (many of the bars up there are Packer bars anyway)...
 
nfty9er said:
There is really something about this stupid story that bothers me. I would be embarassed to post it but I can just ignore that part due to your obvious inexperience an immaturity.
First of all it was obvious these guys were regulars and you were the outsider.
It seemed like everything would have been o.k. until you started whining to the bouncer and bar tender and then you had the audacity to call them cheaters. Listen young man you do not insult people on their own turf. Something else you need to know, all bars and all pool rooms have their own rules. Did you ever find out? No. In my pool room( I mean my own) the rule is any ball touching the line is in the kitchen. I don't care if it's one percent, if u could possibly see that, it is in the kitchen. Saves tons of arguments or any questions.
Now you think these guys are hassling you over a couple of bucks. If that was the case you would have left with nothing. There were not pulling anything. They probably figured out they were being hustled , then you called them names and they were not going to take it and ganged up on you.
Happens all the time in a crowded drunk bar.
You did not explain how you guys got to match up so often so quick in a crowded bar with people putting quarters up. How could you possibly do that. If he was lousy he would have lost the next game. It makes your story sound suspicious.
I suggest you start carrying a cell phone then you won't need someone to call the cops and you can do it anonymously. You had no guts whatsoever not to call the cops if you were getting strong armed. And I doubt very much they were looking at your plates which would do no good as as registrations are not available to the public. Sounds to me you are just trying to justify your answers people are putting to you. I would publicize the place in a heartbeat if it is that bad. I think the story is embellished.
Remember you started the shit.
By the way how old is everybody in this burg in Northern Illinois. Sounds like it is in the sticks and you are all hicks. At least you should have learned to keep your mouth shut or not try to hustle a group. FWIW
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Just to clarify. Although I was an outsider, I had been to the bar about 4 or 5 times before and played for money--won--and had no problems. I got to know a few people there, so it wasn't like I walked into the bar for the first time.

I started "whining" to the bouncer, as you say, because I was being threatened and knew that the guy was serious.

I wasn't hustling anyone. I'm an OK player and wasn't trying to deceive anyone.

It was a crowded bar, but it was early and nobody else had quarters up at the time.

The story was not embellished.

Although the bar is near the WI border, it is not a hick place. Yes, it is near WI which is more rural, but it is not a hick bar--but a very nice looking place where there is a large mix of people regularly in there from young to older.

I am new to gambling and obviously wasn't too smart for not getting out of there quickly (I am 40 years old by the way--no spring chicken myself).
 
Man, I'd believe that in a heartbeat, based upon the crap I have encountered in dive bars like that.... which is why I only gamble in pool halls, with gamblers.
 
In the kitchen....

Oh, I forgot one thing. I have never heard of anyone playing that a ball is in the kitchen if any part of the ball is touching the line. But anyway...you forgot a part of the story and proves that they were willing to cheat.

The big guy looked at the ball and first said it was playable--and then he picked-up the ball and MOVED it completely out of the kitchen. Only when my opponent told him that it wasn't HIS shot did he move the ball back into the kitchen and say that it was NOT playable.

Although I was probably a bit too bold, they were not there to play a fair game and win money based on the players skill.
 
Get_A_Grip said:
Oh, I forgot one thing. I have never heard of anyone playing that a ball is in the kitchen if any part of the ball is touching the line. But anyway...you forgot a part of the story and proves that they were willing to cheat.

The big guy looked at the ball and first said it was playable--and then he picked-up the ball and MOVED it completely out of the kitchen. Only when my opponent told him that it wasn't HIS shot did he move the ball back into the kitchen and say that it was NOT playable.

Although I was probably a bit too bold, they were not there to play a fair game and will money based on the players skill.
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You can justify their wrongness (word?) and be completely correct, but you are responsible for placin yourself in that situation. It is simple risk/ reward analysis and the reward just wasn't there. It is also true that you called the guy a cheater. Not smart.

And, I thought it was true that any part touching the line was not shootable. But I play 9b, so wtf do I know?
 
Black-Balled said:
You can justify their wrongness (word?) and be completely correct, but you are responsible for placin yourself in that situation. It is simple risk/ reward analysis and the reward just wasn't there. It is also true that you called the guy a cheater. Not smart.

And, I thought it was true that any part touching the line was not shootable. But I play 9b, so wtf do I know?
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Don't get me wrong, I know that I wasn't smart about this. But one of the biggest tells was when the opponent said that HE didn't want to talk to me...but that I should only talk with the muscle (who wasn't playing). That told me that they have done this before and that they knew exactly what they were doing.
 
I just glanced through the replies to this thread, and didn't notice wether or not a certain point that particularly bothers me as been addressed. If you're playing 8-ball, and your guy scratches, it should be ball in hand, and none of that in the kitchen bullshit to begin with. If a scratch by your opponent leaves you at a disadvantage, that's bullshit, and it sounds to me like bar room rules, bar room 8-ball, with bar room hicks. The three elements any person with a respectable stick should avoid!
I went into a bar the last time I was in the states looking for some 8-ball action and as I watched the games people were playing, I was seeing guys playing what they considered safeties by just touching their object ball and making it roll a couple of inches (clearly no cushion foul) and they weren't playing it as a foul. First thing I thought was these guys don't know the rules, and the moment I start talking rules to these guys, I'm gonna get an enlarged @aahole! Besides that, a good stick playing hicks with those kinds rules is actually beatable because those kinds of rules turn the game into nothing but poke and hope, and the hicks are better at that!!
My 2 cents.........................you shouldn't have been even playing with guys that play with those kinds of rules. They don't know the rules, so they're nothing but bangers, and to low class hicks like that, $15 bucks combined with $200 in food stamps is probably all they have left until next payday!! There are people that can afford to lose $15, and then there are those that can't afford it. As a pool players that play for money
, one of the things we must learn first is to be able to tell the difference.
dave
 
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