Grandsons: Let them win one or beat up on them?

JimS

JimS

Grandpa & his grand boys.
Silver Member
I have a 15 yr old and 12 yr old grandsons who got a 7 ft table for Christmas. When I go to visit we play almost non-stop and they've won no games... not one.

I feel bad that they don't win any games but on the other hand they would win a few games if they worked on their game and got good enough to beat grandpa. I love teaching them what I've learned and I do show them everything I can think of to show them and often pause as I'm running out to explain the logic of something I"ve just done.

I'm wondering if I should dump a game or two now and then and let them beat me. There have been a couple of times that they got to the eight ball only to miss it and have me run out and while running out I've thought seriously about missing a shot that would leave them straight in on the eight but I've not done it because I want them to experience the joy of a true win. A win where they took control and won the game. When they honestly beat me then we can celebrate together in true joy in what they've accomplished.

Or... maybe I need to have them win so they won't get discouraged.

Opinions??? Thanks, Jim
 
I'd say, it depends on the personality of the kids in question.

If they're the sort to give up if they're losing, then yeah, dump a game now and again. Keep'em interested.

If they're the sort that losing just makes'em want to win more, and learn how to win, then don't let up!

Maybe you could start having the kids play each other, while you coach both of'em.
 
When I first started playing with my dad he'd beat me, but only barely. I practiced more and more and then we played again a few months later after I'd improved significantly. He beat me again, but only by a little. Back to the table I went and spent as much time as I could playing and learning. A year ago we played and the same thing happened.

Now I'm a strong player who can break and run 1 out of 10-15 racks and he could still probably give me the 8. Been playing for 4 years and I still don't know my dad's speed.

My advice, win by just enough to encourage them to improve.
 
Are they interested in more than playing just for fun? If so, give give them pointers to get better. If not, I say let them win some games.
 
Mess around with them and let them think that they have a chance to beat you. Always stay one step ahead.
 
JimS said:
I have a 15 yr old and 12 yr old grandsons who got a 7 ft table for Christmas. When I go to visit we play almost non-stop and they've won no games... not one.

I feel bad that they don't win any games but on the other hand they would win a few games if they worked on their game and got good enough to beat grandpa. I love teaching them what I've learned and I do show them everything I can think of to show them and often pause as I'm running out to explain the logic of something I"ve just done.

I'm wondering if I should dump a game or two now and then and let them beat me. There have been a couple of times that they got to the eight ball only to miss it and have me run out and while running out I've thought seriously about missing a shot that would leave them straight in on the eight but I've not done it because I want them to experience the joy of a true win. A win where they took control and won the game. When they honestly beat me then we can celebrate together in true joy in what they've accomplished.

Or... maybe I need to have them win so they won't get discouraged.

Opinions??? Thanks, Jim
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I would probably make a game where they had an almost equal chance to win then as they improved you could change the game. For example if you are right handed but play left handed about their speed then play them left-handed or if you are a really strong player give them ball in hand when you miss. Just figure out a spot that makes it an almost fair game where you really have to play all out to win. This way you don't have to worry about dumping.
 
The incentive is for the kid to improve in order to beat grandpa. If he stays at it and gets better it's bound to happen eventually and will be a big boost to his confidence - even if it takes a long time. If you miss on purpose I doubt you will fool him and a victory on his part would probably have less meaning then if he knew you were playing at full potential.
 
One of my fondest and earliest memories of pool was watching my dad and my Uncle Elwood play pool on his basement Gold Crown. Uncle Elwood would do things with the pool balls that were amazing to me and I would wait and wait till I could play a bit. They always beat me but it was a lot of fun. Their game of choice was usually rotation. I'd say if they keep wanting to play ya you should keep kicking their butts:)
 
Dartman said:
If you miss on purpose I doubt you will fool him and a victory on his part would probably have less meaning then if he knew you were playing at full potential.
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Dead Money said:
I'd say if they keep wanting to play ya you should keep kicking their butts:)
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I agree with these guys. I felt it was my duty as an Uncle to show my Nephews how to play the game well...at least as well as I could...so they would learn from the experience.

I was trying to not only show them how to play the game itself, but how to place high expectations upon yourself and achieve that goal under pressure.

No one benefits from an easy reward. If they are motivated to play, they will will be motivated to improve in order to beat you. Imagine how sweet that will be for them when they finally achieve that goal.
 
NO MERCY!!!:D :D

Show no mercy, shark them when they are shooting and make them bet on every match ( if you lose>Dairy Queen if they lose>clean out the garage):D

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P.S. anyone who doesn't think I'm joking needs to lay off the crack

Jake
 
JimS said:
I have a 15 yr old and 12 yr old grandsons who got a 7 ft table for Christmas. When I go to visit we play almost non-stop and they've won no games... not one.

I feel bad that they don't win any games but on the other hand they would win a few games if they worked on their game and got good enough to beat grandpa. I love teaching them what I've learned and I do show them everything I can think of to show them and often pause as I'm running out to explain the logic of something I"ve just done.

I'm wondering if I should dump a game or two now and then and let them beat me. There have been a couple of times that they got to the eight ball only to miss it and have me run out and while running out I've thought seriously about missing a shot that would leave them straight in on the eight but I've not done it because I want them to experience the joy of a true win. A win where they took control and won the game. When they honestly beat me then we can celebrate together in true joy in what they've accomplished.

Or... maybe I need to have them win so they won't get discouraged.

Opinions??? Thanks, Jim
Click to expand...

Don't spend too much time playing against them. Spend most of that time teaching them how to whip you every time!

The day will come when they can hold their own and then you all can have a great time playing each other.
 
You could also give them a spot when they play you. They better they get, the less of a spot they'll need. You can use this to measure their improvement.
 
how about drills

Rather than play games all the time how about doing some drills like the 15 ball minefield or two balls on each rail and if you miss you have to start over. Another way would be to break a 9-ball rack with the 8 in the middle and then play solids out like a ghost game

I would think you could get the practice and teach them something that they can work on while you're not around

I do believe that you should earn wins but ...
 
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i would beat them just to make them want to win more. I know my dad and older brother beat me in chess and pool before i learned how to play well. That just made me want to try harder to win and brought out my competitive side. Now, i can beat them at both. but it all depends on the kids tempermend and how they have been raised. I know growing up (which i still am, im only 19) if i did not know how to do something my brother or dad did not do it for me, they showed me how to so i can do it myself. i am glad i was raised like that i know how to do a lot more.


So dont do your grandsons' dirty work and beat yourself so they win, teach him how to beat you like the others said. Either way i think they will learn a lot more
 
My dad taught me to play and it took me about 15 years or so before I could beat him at 14.1 once in awhile. And then it was because he had got glasses and I was on top of my game. He never let up on me and I'm thankful he didn't now. Johnnyt
 
I think they are old enough to be serious about the game, but only if they WANT to be.

If they are really competitive, beat their heads in. If they aren't, they'll never end up taking the game seriously anyway.

I learned early on to only teach people who already had a good amount of interest in the game, and while teaching them, play as well as possible. If they see me playing mediocre, they tend to see the game as a waste of time. If they see me playing spectacularly, that can really give them a goal to shoot for.

I know a lot of us got into the game or became more interested in the game when we saw a great match, or saw an awesome exhibition. Would the fire still have been there if those players played mediocre?

I played my first good player at 19. He beat me mercilessly for a solid year. For two years after that, I imagined playing that player every time I practiced. I ended up beating him for a military championship. It was all the sweeter, because I knew he played as hard as possible every single game. He beat on his 12 year old son the same way. He son ended up being a pretty good player.

Russ
 
Interesting question. I have a son who isn't old enough to play yet. When he gets older I have thought about this a little. I do not think I will ever dump a game. Pool or golf or whatever. I want him to learn several things from it. First, I want him to learn to focus on the process of getting better and fundamentals, not results. Dumping games can short circuit that and confuse the goal of the activity. This is also a two way street because I want him to see that I don't get all excited about beating him; I want him to see I feel the same way about him whether I can beat him in a certain game. I also never want to fake reality with my kid. I think people teach their kids not to lie without having a philosophical framework to show the danger in dishonesty. Eventually when you fake reality enough, through whatever process, it hurts your ability to reason and hurts your ability to function in the world. Granted winning a pool game is a minor example of this, but I think it is dangerous to give them an incorrect idea. And if they figure it out it will be worse. So why pretend? OTOH, you can show them the nature of real self esteem by praising them for working hard or improving, or whatever. Like tell them, "Hey, much better stroke on that shot" before you beat them.;)

I also want it so when he does beat me at something, it is a tremendous and satisfying thing for him. It will be for me too. Because the day your kid beats you should be a happier day for you than them. If it isn't, the parent has a lot of growing up to do.

I think a lot of parents, and people in general, have faulty ideas about what competition is and what it should be. They also place undue emphasis on results rather than process. All of us have seen this playing youth sports or pool leagues or whatever. I think both the soft "self esteem" crowd that doesn't even want to keep score and the ridiculous little league/figure skating/cheerleading/etc... parents who emphasize winning at all kinds of costs have it wrong too. The world is a competitive place and people keep score. However, you have to focus on learning and improving and when you do that results tend to take care of themselves. Youth sports are not the time to focus on results. Hell, watching the documentary on John Wooden's teams the other night was fascinating. Here is a guy who coached 10 championship teams at a very competitive level and never mentioned winning or losing. That is how I want to try to be with my kid at whatever activity.

Also, it should go without saying that my "no dumping" policy does not apply to physical things where the kid could get hurt. You don't throw a ball as hard as you can to a kid, or wrestle all out or whatever. But when it doesn't pose a risk to the kid I don't think you need to dump, and in fact can be worse to their self esteem than beating them.

P.S. I have noticed the trend of kids crying when they lose. I went to a wrestling tournament for kids and saw kids consistently crying when they lost. This drove me nuts. Crying for injury or true emotional loss is one thing, but these kids were missing something. I don't remember kids crying just at a loss when I was a kid, not to sound like too much of an old guy. Teach 'em to win or lose with some grace and dignity. Easier said than done I guess.
 
Depends on how THEY feel about it.

My Dad was a very good pool player but was unable to teach the game. He learned by experience in the early Forties. It was no fun for the family as he whipped everyone every year at my cousin's house around Xmas time. I didn't get into the game until I was 46 and he was 73. I only played him once after 6 months of intense practice, book reading and instructional videos. He had bad knees, a cataract in his dominant eye, hadn't touched a cue in 14 years, a couple of martinis under his belt and bifocals that he never figured out how to adapt to his game. I thought I had the nuts! When he was up 42 to 17 in our one and only straight pool game, I asked if he minded if I didn't keep score anymore:eek: ! When I think of all those lost years we could have enjoyed together, my heart breaks. He never would come out with me again, not even to watch me compete.
Do whatever you have to do to make sure they will keep playing with you. The memories of being together are more important than impressing them with your skill. If they develop a love of the game, they'll ask you to teach them later on. Do not lose this opportunity to spend time together.
I wasted mine.
Sincerely,
Ed
 
EDRJR said:
My Dad was a very good pool player but was unable to teach the game. He learned by experience in the early Forties. It was no fun for the family as he whipped everyone every year at my cousin's house around Xmas time. I didn't get into the game until I was 46 and he was 73. I only played him once after 6 months of intense practice, book reading and instructional videos. He had bad knees, a cataract in his dominant eye, hadn't touched a cue in 14 years, a couple of martinis under his belt and bifocals that he never figured out how to adapt to his game. I thought I had the nuts! When he was up 42 to 17 in our one and only straight pool game, I asked if he minded if I didn't keep score anymore:eek: ! When I think of all those lost years we could have enjoyed together, my heart breaks. He never would come out with me again, not even to watch me compete.
Do whatever you have to do to make sure they will keep playing with you. The memories of being together are more important than impressing them with your skill. If they develop a love of the game, they'll ask you to teach them later on. Do not lose this opportunity to spend time together.
I wasted mine.
Sincerely,
Ed
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TAP TAP TAP TAP. Don't force them into the game. And certainly don't destroy them while playing.

My mom is easily the best basketball player I know. I have movies of her scoring 40+ with 15 assists back in college. So I grew up playing a lot of b-ball. Unfortunately, I don't have too many fond memories. All I remember is how miserable I was whenever we played. I probably scored a total of 6 points on her by the time I was 14. What kills someone's self-esteem? How about getting the ball stolen every time you touch it? Every pass picked? Every shot blocked? That would make anyone want to quit. It worked that way with everything. I played her some chess once when I was 6. I remember it clearly. She started with my pawns and worked her way to my bishops before I quit, eyes filled with tears.

If you want them to play pool...LET THEM PLAY. As their grandfather, they already see you as the best pool player in the world. They'll back you against Efren any day of the week. You don't need to impress them. You need to encourage them. Let's face it, pool isn't very fun to watch. Seeing grandpa run out all the time isn't going to make them any better, nor is it going to keep their interest.

Playing pool has it's own rewards. It starts with just making balls, then running balls, and finally running racks. Ask yourself, "What first got me interested?" I'm sure the answer is nowhere near getting beaten senseless by the shooters. That's what kept you motivated after several years of play.

My advice: play them one handed, left handed, eyes closed, etc etc. But don't play them too often. Let them play each other. Sibling rivalry will definitely motivate them. Show them some cool things every so often. It sounds like they're a little too new to the game for drills so stay away from those. Drilling is never as fun as playing. And seriously, get them gambling. Play for that little red car, or a candy bar or someone's turn on the xbox. I made my first bet when I was 4. 16 years later, I'm still doing it.

Edit: I don't play much basketball anymore. But I am the first in the family to pick up a cue, and I'll never quit this game...they don't need help having fun.
 
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