Hal Houle

Scott Lee said:
Colin...You really need to preface your BOLD statements with "IMO"...since this is, indeed only YOUR opinion, and not fact at all. Hal Houle has shared his aiming systems with thousands of players, of all abilities, including top pro players, and they DO work, for many people, quite effectively. Just because you don't like them, gives you no authority, nor privilege, to put them down. I spent a day recently with Hal myself, and recorded our conversations on a dvd for further study. We teach a form of one of Hal's systems (SAM), and it is VERY effective in ALL shot situations. Hal is a real gentleman, with a LOT to share, to anyone who is willing to listen. You might try the same... How about showing some respect for someone more knowledgeable, and much older than you?

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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Colin, with great respect, I have to agree with Scott here. I have just recently been exposed to this type of aiming system by one of the great instructors working in the business.

When fully understood and practiced, it provides unbelievably accuracte shots.

The concept of the system is easy enough to learn but it takes time to fully internalize. That is so, from my experience, because there is a tendency to "disbelieve" and to consciously or subconsciously revert to your previous aiming method.

In addition, this is an aiming method not a stroke training method so if you do not have a sound, repeating stroke, you will miss shots..but that is not the fault of the aiming system.

Regards,
Jim
 
Colin...FIRST, this man is 85 YEARS OLD. He has earned the right to be occasionally 'gruff'. He is quite different on the phone and in person.

SECOND, no offense, but you are completely ignorant of how well the center-to-edge systems work on 22-37 degree cuts (they might seem 'impossible' for you, but I will tell you, for certain, that they are not). They are, by nature, the most common angles in pool, and are aimed ALL the same way, by most professional players. We teach this method extremely effectively, and it works...WELL!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Colin Colenso said:
Scott,

I know there are many ready to defend Hal, he's almost untouchable.

But take a look through all his posts, these are not the responses of a polite and informative gentleman. He acts gruff and irrelevant most the time.

Of course, what I write is my opinions. It gets a bit tiresome to add that bit of political correctness to every statement.

When I say fact, I say it in the same way that 2+2=4 is a fact. Certain claims, such that center to edge aiming is sufficient for angles 22-37 degrees are just impossible.

Good luck with your video. I hope someone can do some justice to Hal's so called depth of knowledge. I and many others have been waiting a long time for it. No one seems to be able to explain it in a way that doesn't break the laws of physics.

Colin
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If it can be explained over the phone, wouldn't it be even easier to explain it in writing with diagrams? Surely someone in the know would be willing to help even if it is necessary to use or discuss 3-D images?

Hal obviously wants to share his system, which I respect. I don't understand the reluctance.
 
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Why the hell can't we just start a hundred page long thread,with Hal contributing of course, and sort this out in real time with real discussion and time at the table?

If he knows something that will bring my game up some notches I'm in.

I'll bet what he has to offer is astute and relevent....this seems evident in the folks who have had a chance to hear,apply and benefit.

I just don't know why we debate if it is.....lets find out as a group.
 
cookie man said:
screw physics - call HAL
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Physics has nothing to do with it. It is simple geometry.

I agree with your advice to call Hal. He is a great conversationalist (despite is lack of social grace on the Internet forums), and he has lots of good info and stories to share, and he does so very willingly.

I agree that many of Hal's aiming systems are useful to many people; but I also agree with Colin that the systems are not as magical as many people claim. For more info, see explanations (with analysis and examples) from me and others here:

Regards,
Dave
 
Scott Lee said:
Colin...FIRST, this man is 85 YEARS OLD. He has earned the right to be occasionally 'gruff'. He is quite different on the phone and in person.

SECOND, no offense, but you are completely ignorant of how well the center-to-edge systems work on 22-37 degree cuts (they might seem 'impossible' for you, but I will tell you, for certain, that they are not). They are, by nature, the most common angles in pool, and are aimed ALL the same way, by most professional players. We teach this method extremely effectively, and it works...WELL!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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Sorry Scott,
But I think you are wrong about how most pros aim, or that center-to-edge aiming works for 22-37 degree cuts. Just as I thought you were wrong when you claimed that a half ball hit is the same as a quarter ball aim.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=866458&postcount=12

I'm not here to personally attack Hal, though I know many here are tired of him. I just think his systems ought to be questioned openly, rather than under fear of being blacklisted by his proselytes.

Colin
 
Scott,

I respect you a lot. I really do.

But...

I cannot agree with you on this one.

Hal's knowledge is invaluable. I respect that knowledge. I have lost count as to how many people I have sent to Hal. His systems work very well...

But...

I cannot respect Hal Houle as a person - I couldn't care less how long he's been sucking air. When someone goes as far out of their way to disrespect me as Hal has done, you wake up quick and see what's really going on.

Hal has made several comments to several people about my ability to teach. To my knowledge, I have never met Hal, nor do I recall him being present at any class or clinic I have conducted. Despite that fact - he has made these comments to people that I sent to him personally. I did confront Hal about this a while back, and he was very smug about it. Gentleman? Not in my opinion.

IMO...his posts serve no purpose at all in any discussion he has interrupted over the years. If you find any post that he has made on any forum that teaches anybody anything - feel free to post the link here and I will apologize and retract that statement.

Now... I'm sure I could have spoke to you about this privately in a PM, e-mail or a phone call - however I won't sit here quietly as some gather around to put a halo on Hal's head. My experience is quite different, and I would hope that if Hal is gentleman (like you say he is) that I can get a apology from him - privately or publicly - IMO - he gets a kick out of pissing people off with his drivel... so IMO Hal is on the same list as Fast Larry.

Now don't get me wrong... I respect all of the knowledge that Hal shares. I really do. I have never stopped sending people to him, despite the derogatory comments he has made about me. I have had 2 conversations with Hal over the phone - a long time ago. I have tried to explain Hal's methods and I cannot do it as effectively as he does - so I continue to give students his phone number. In return, the guy shitts all over me and my reputation as an instructor.

I should respect that?

I won't hold my breath for his apology either.
 
av84fun said:
Colin, with great respect, I have to agree with Scott here. I have just recently been exposed to this type of aiming system by one of the great instructors working in the business.

When fully understood and practiced, it provides unbelievably accuracte shots.

The concept of the system is easy enough to learn but it takes time to fully internalize. That is so, from my experience, because there is a tendency to "disbelieve" and to consciously or subconsciously revert to your previous aiming method.

In addition, this is an aiming method not a stroke training method so if you do not have a sound, repeating stroke, you will miss shots..but that is not the fault of the aiming system.

Regards,
Jim
Click to expand...
Hi Jim,

I've heard quite a few players who have trialled the system and found near instant success.

My belief is that this is mainly the result of how many new aiming trials give some instant positive feedback and that this is partly because they are looking at the balls a bit harder than usual.

I also believe there is a strong tendency for automatic intuitive adjustment. A perfect example of this is an aiming system to aim dead center on relatively straight-in shots. The brain seems to automatically adjust and actually aim closer to the required angle.

It's not like this system is new to me, I've read just about every post I could find that attempts to explain it, and I have trialled it. Fact is, center ball to OB edge can produce only one angle (given the same spin and speed on execution). That is pure geometry. Edit: I should add that this angle also varies according to the distance between CB and OB. eg. A near touching ball will create almost a straight shot.

If you learned an adjustment system to deal with this, please explain it.

Best regards,
Colin
 
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I'll try to keep this brief. I'm not crazy about Hal's posting methods either. But, as has been said, he's totally different on the phone or, I'm told, in person.
Dave, I find it hard to believe you'd put him in the same category with fl. NOBODY is that bad, in my opinion. I'm really sorry that you have had such a bad experience with Hal, as I respect you both a great deal.
The system Hal taught me over the phone works better for me than anything else I've learned or tried to learn in over 45 years. The only thing I'm having a problem with at the moment is banks. I can play position using it, no problem. Anything I could do before I learned the system, I can do now and better. And, I don't give a damn who believes it or who doesn't.
Of course, I'm still just a high grade "B" player, I've been told.
 
Pushout said:
I'll try to keep this brief. I'm not crazy about Hal's posting methods either. But, as has been said, he's totally different on the phone or, I'm told, in person.
Dave, I find it hard to believe you'd put him in the same category with fl. NOBODY is that bad, in my opinion. I'm really sorry that you have had such a bad experience with Hal, as I respect you both a great deal.
The system Hal taught me over the phone works better for me than anything else I've learned or tried to learn in over 45 years. The only thing I'm having a problem with at the moment is banks. I can play position using it, no problem. Anything I could do before I learned the system, I can do now and better. And, I don't give a damn who believes it or who doesn't.
Of course, I'm still just a high grade "B" player, I've been told.
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Believe me, when these comments got back to me I was extremely shocked and initially I didn't believe that he had said those things. After the 3rd or 4th report, I confronted Hal about it and got nowhere with him.

As I said in my last post, I refer people to Hal Houle all of the time because he is good at what he does and you can't beat the price. I respect his knowledge, but I won't respect the fact that he felt that it was necessary to say these things - especially when he has never seen what I teach and how I teach it.

It is extremely sad, because I consider Hal one of the foremost authorities in aiming systems - hell he has more knowledge on that subject than any other human. These days I am finding it very difficult to defend the tone of his posts - because they are just trollish drivel in the loosest form of the definition.

Just know that it is very frustrating for me to have to report these things about somebody that I had a lot of respect for at one time - and please understand, that I still have no idea why he made those comments about me.

:confused:
 
Colin Colenso said:
Sorry Scott,
But I think you are wrong about how most pros aim, or that center-to-edge aiming works for 22-37 degree cuts. Just as I thought you were wrong when you claimed that a half ball hit is the same as a quarter ball aim.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=866458&postcount=12

I'm not here to personally attack Hal, though I know many here are tired of him. I just think his systems ought to be questioned openly, rather than under fear of being blacklisted by his proselytes.

Colin
Click to expand...

I'm with Colin, Blackjack, Dave, etc. Hal, his systems and those who defend them get flack because they deserve flack.

Hal deserves flack for (1) being an online curmudgeon simply for the joy of it (if being old is his excuse, why is he such a charmer to all who meet him?) and (2) refusing to share his systems openly and thereby perpetuating the "controversy" surrounding them. Frankly, I think he does all this purposely for the attention.

Hal's systems deserve flack because they can't work as described by Hal's defenders and Hal himself refuses to correct any misrepresentations made by his defenders, so we can only conclude that the systems themselves are flawed or Hal wants them to be misrepresented.

Hal's defenders deserve flack because they overestimate their own understanding of Hal's systems, as shown by their universal inability to describe them coherently or even understand the simple geometric inconsistencies in them - and then attack others as being "closed minded" for pointing it out to them.

Hal and his systems are treated very much like a cult religion by his apostles: revelations handed down personally by the prophet, incomprehensible except to the chosen, exempt from logical critique, heretics attacked for questioning the divine word, etc., etc. As I've said frequently before, I think the parts of Hal's systems that are known (fractional aiming, for instance) can be very valuable to many players. But the whole blind cultish defensive dynamic of the thing leaves a bad taste in peoples' mouths for obvious and good reasons.

pj
chgo
 
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Colin Colenso said:
Sorry Scott,
But I think you are wrong about how most pros aim, or that center-to-edge aiming works for 22-37 degree cuts. Just as I thought you were wrong when you claimed that a half ball hit is the same as a quarter ball aim.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=866458&postcount=12

I'm not here to personally attack Hal, though I know many here are tired of him. I just think his systems ought to be questioned openly, rather than under fear of being blacklisted by his proselytes.

Colin
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Hey guys,

I hate to stir the pot here, but, this could be the next TAR match. Colin vs Scott.

They could do a all around match.

Just a thought.

I would aslo like to say thanks to Scott and Colin for the help with my game.

Pete
 
Professional Aiming Systems

eze said:
I have spoke with hal several times,and i could not get the cueball to pivot where i could pocket the ball.
Hal had me set up a thin cut shot
to the right and then put my tip on the right side of the cueball then aim the center of my cueball to the left edge of ob and then pivot my tip back to center of cueball.Its like i was always shooting a 1/2
ball hit. I dont know if im doing the pivot thing wrong or the center to edge thing is wrong.Just wondering if
someone here could help me.Thanks


.
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There are other instructors who use their own professional aiming system but you can expect to have them charge you for their time and information.

Hal is a good talented man and a unique individual who has helped many pool players. There are others out there. He's 85 years young now and is not as mobile as he once was.

My suggestion is to find an instructor who has successfully taught specific professional aiming systems to professional pool players and read the professional pool player's testimonials.

JoeyA
 
I would tell everyone everything I know about it, I just don't think it's "mine" to do that. If someone wants to learn from Hal-- he gives phone lessons for free.

There's never been a detailed thread on the subject--- with all aspects spelled out in detail, so I understand everyone's frustration. If you want to learn, call Hal-- he posts his # in every other thread.

I don't care what the angle is, I can use his system to pocket the ball.

If anyone is in central-PA, swing by my house and I'll tell ya whatever you wanna know for free. But, it's better to talk to Hal. He really improved my game, that's all I can say.

Is his system geometrically flawed? Maybe, who knows. All I know is "everything goes."
 
Hal Houle- Long May He Live

I am a 'Houligan', in that I received instruction from Hal Houle IN PERSON. After our lesson, I believe he was heard to say, "get that person out of my sight, I hope to never see the likes of him again. what a useless waste of time." Followed by some rather uncomplementary remarks.

I am here now to applaud Hal for teaching me the center to edge aiming system. My level of play went up two balls, but I shortly retired from pool due to health problems.

I'm here to tell you for a fact that Hal's system not only applies to pool, but to other important facets of life. I have found the center to edge system applies equally as well when pushing my poker chips into the pot (although I seldom get any back in return).

I find myself using his center to edge system constantly while eating pizza and it's invaluable when having sex........and lately I have implemented the same center to edge system while driving down the highway. Other drivers must approve of this system,as they are constantly blowing their horns at me in approval, while waving frantically and saluting me with one finger up.

Hardly a day goes by, that while drinking Jack Daniels, I am not heard to say, "Here's to you, Hal Houle. Thanks for teaching me so well."

Doug (a grateful student)
 
I'm not being sarcastic when I ask this. I am genuinely curious. Are there any professional players who use Hal's systems and who would openly give credit to Hal for teaching them how to aim?
 
How many aiming systems does Hal have (47)

At Valley Forge this yr. Lets simply meet and go play on Hal's Diamond table he has graciously, offered in the past ( I ) could come with 10 others and learn his technicics- I am interested in an aiming system, he claims makes multiple balls in 1 shot. Hello Hal mark
 
SpiderWebComm said:
I would tell everyone everything I know about it, I just don't think it's "mine" to do that. If someone wants to learn from Hal-- he gives phone lessons for free.

There's never been a detailed thread on the subject--- with all aspects spelled out in detail, so I understand everyone's frustration. If you want to learn, call Hal-- he posts his # in every other thread.

I don't care what the angle is, I can use his system to pocket the ball.

If anyone is in central-PA, swing by my house and I'll tell ya whatever you wanna know for free. But, it's better to talk to Hal. He really improved my game, that's all I can say.

Is his system geometrically flawed? Maybe, who knows. All I know is "everything goes."
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Dave,

Do you use the same aiming method regardless of the speed of shot, the spin being applied to the CB or the distance from CB to OB?

Colin

btw: Thanks to Smorgasbored for lightening the mood :D
 
Jimmy M. said:
I'm not being sarcastic when I ask this. I am genuinely curious. Are there any professional players who use Hal's systems and who would openly give credit to Hal for teaching them how to aim?
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Hey Jimmy.

There probably are but I highly doubt he would ever get the credit. Just my opinion.
There used to be a link on this site to a shot Efren made that clearly showed him using center to edge. The link was posted because it was an unusual(amazing) bridge he made with his arm/hand but what no one seemed to notice was how he aimed off center and just before pulling the trigger, pivoted the tip back to center. I know there are guys on here that know Efren and I am not one of them. He may not use it all the time but he definitely did in that video. Speaking for myself, I have probably gotten 2 balls better since learning it. Still no world beater but I am lot more confident at the table.

Regards,
Koop
 
Colin Colenso said:
Dave,

Do you use the same aiming method regardless of the speed of shot, the spin being applied to the CB or the distance from CB to OB?

Colin

btw: Thanks to Smorgasbored for lightening the mood :D
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Hi Colin,

You know what's funny. Although I will defend Hal's systems to the death there was one particular shot that I just could not make by just using the system. It is the one shot that I realized I had to tweak a hair in order to be consistent with it.
I am a left handed player and for some reason, when cutting a ball up the rail to the right I just could not make it, sometimes missing by an entire diamond. It is the one shot that Hal told me to try, using BHE, apply some low outside to and presto, it worked. I guess what I am saying is that I don't blame people for questioning his systems. I can only say that, for me, they have been a Godsend.

Regards,
Koop
 
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