How can we stop all the Bad Business Practices and Transactions on this forum!!!!!!!

[ribdoner]

Our lot would be improved if the I-TRADER and BUYER/SELLER features were used.

This could require administrater mediation in the likely event of retaliatory feedback.

 

[JB Cases]

One of the rubs with lynching the seller when things go wrong. I typically receive two to six packages a year dropped off at my doorstep by mistake often with totally different addresses. Likewise I have packages sent to me dropped off at neighbor's or other locations by accident occasionally. I also discovered that the UPS driver could electronically "sign" my signature if I had ever signed their little box before!

Maybe one package in hundreds goes to the wrong place but it happens. You want to ban the seller from selling and file charges with the police if the buyer doesn't get what he wanted. Ultimately the shipper should have insured the package and included that in the shipping charges but if the shipping company shows a package as received they won't pay off.

Thousands of transactions a year on AZB, this is a real scenario. I had it happen to me repeatedly when I only received maybe a hundred packages a year. Long distance transactions incur some risk for both parties. If both are private individuals or one is a private individual and the other is a struggling small business then "the customer is always right" may not be practical.

One of my packages that was shown as delivered that I hadn't received was over three thousand dollars. Another package that I "received" and "electronically signed for" was over two thousand dollars. The driver pried open an unused back door of an outbuilding and placed the package there because it was raining. That was an unused door with shelves and much stuff stacked in front of it on the other side. I reported the package undelivered and had quite a stink about that one. I could have been months or years finding that package. I would have been acting in total good faith had I claimed I didn't receive the package. Would the seller have been banned and turned over to the police had this been an AZB deal? Two grand is serious money to many of us.

Just a few thoughts. Things in this world aren't nearly as black and white as some see them.

Hu

I had something similar happen but with more than $30,000 worth of cues in the package.

The UPS driver left it sitting against the fence of my father's house in the hot Florida sand. He "signed" it himself because he didn't want to drive back out to the house.

My brother found it hours later and put in the garage.

I reported it as unreceived. The driver drove back out to explain what he did and we found it. He would have and should have lost his job for that as the package was taped from top to bottom with the notice "Adult Signature Required". But I called back to tell UPS that we found it the package and didn't report the driver's error.

All kinds of funny things can happen with mail order deals. I have to say that most of mine have gone pretty well.

I think doing mail order deals is kind of like a Mexican Standoff when exchanging hostages.

Someone has to give in and trust the other person to do their part. The thing is that the suggestions here are all good but they only will prevent some new deals from happening based on previous bad deals. People will still get burned.

In my opinion for this to truly be a safe marketplace there needs to be more community policing. Let the community judge these cases as they are aired and then let the community step in to stop deals by those who were found to be in the wrong. Public discourse usually results in the truth being brought out.

And two, there needs to be some kind of relatively low cost escrow service for people to use - that is known to the board - for deals between people who aren't yet established and proven to be trustworthy.

If a seller or buyer doesn't want to use it then they do so at their own risk and if they get burned then it will be another lesson for future deals.

Basically it's up to the individuals to do their own due diligence. It only takes a minute to search on someone's screen name, or simply ASK, to find out about the reputation of any seller or buyer.

And it's up to the community to protect the marketplace from known predators.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

JB Cases how do they deal with RIP OFF Artists where you live CHINA?

 

[ribdoner]

JB Cases how do they deal with RIP OFF Artists where you live CHINA?

Not sure about now but tanks have been known to run over them in the past:thud:

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Report: China led world executions in 2007

This link tells story, and you know it might seem harsh, but where they are gone they will commit no more crimes.

 

[JimS]

The only way to get rid of problems selling/buying is to discontinue selling/buying.. like the CCB.

I'm not suggesting we want to do that, just saying that's the only way to get rid of the problems.

JB said it in the first post. CYOA Cover Your Own A$$. That's life.

I have about 10 buys here and about 370 on ebay. Never been hurt. I'm lucky. Good karma.

 

[JimS]

This link tells story, and you know it might seem harsh, but where they are gone they will commit no more crimes.

It's wrong for people to kill people.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

It's wrong for people to kill people.

Well it is the Law of the Land in many States with the Death Penalty. Talk to you local Cop, Sheriff, State Police Person and as if they ever get frustrated with the Justice for the Criminal System.

I have a friend who retired recently from Law Enforcement in NYC (NYPD), he did his 28 years, and walked away frustrated with a system that in many cases make the victims crime fell they are are guilt of something for being a victim.

 

[JimS]

It is wrong for people to kill people. No exceptions. No excuses. It's wrong for people to kill people.

 

[!Smorgass Bored]

There's No Such Thing As A Stupid Question...........sometimes

It is wrong for people to kill people. No exceptions. No excuses. It's wrong for people to kill people.

How about if your pitbull kills them.............accidently.............and twice.

Doug
(just curious, I don't own a dog........................but I could borrow one)

 

[HouseMan]

It is wrong for people to kill people. No exceptions. No excuses. It's wrong for people to kill people.

I'm personally against the death penalty, but if someone broke into my house in the middle of the night, I'm going to shoot them. If they die, so be it. So IMO the no exceptions, no excuses is laughable and naive.

 

[Dartman]

.... Basically it's up to the individuals to do their own due diligence. It only takes a minute to search on someone's screen name, or simply ASK, to find out about the reputation of any seller or buyer. ...

Totally agree.
A Sticky in the Wanted/FS section providing best practices advice for buying/selling could also help the uninitiated
as well as those that 'think' they're experts in commerce.

 

[JoeW]

Where there is a problem there is usually an opportunity as well.

Someone could open a net based storefront that brokered transactions. Charging a fee for the brokerage firm.

Because I am half animal and driven by emotions I will kill the person who attacks a child or a member of my family if I come upon them in the act.

Becausse I am civilized and a member of my culture where all life is precious I will not kill anyone given time to think about the social ramiifications.

State sanctioned killings are premeditated homicide for the common good. There is no scientific consensus evidence that justifies state sanctioned killings (death penalties).

Death through war cannot be tested.

 

[Quesports]

How Long

The only way to get rid of problems selling/buying is to discontinue selling/buying.. like the CCB.

I'm not suggesting we want to do that, just saying that's the only way to get rid of the problems.

JB said it in the first post. CYOA Cover Your Own A$$. That's life.

I have about 10 buys here and about 370 on ebay. Never been hurt. I'm lucky. Good karma.

Hey Jim, I agree with your thoughts on removing the buying/selling here and have a question for you. I joined a little after you did and it seems to me there was no wanted / for sale section at the time I joined. Perhaps I am wrong here, do you or any others remember when that section of the forum was put into place? Without this section and the IMO questionable raffle section there would be a lot less of the drama that seems to be generated
from the ensuing issues.
Dan

 

[ShootingArts]

proof is there, consensus can't be had

. . . State sanctioned killings are premeditated homicide for the common good. There is no scientific consensus evidence that justifies state sanctioned killings (death penalties). . . .

Actually proof is easy to find and has existed for centuries. The scientific community is made up of human beings and many are quick to deny facts just like other human beings thus no consensus. When punishment is swift, sure, and harsh when you are caught it deters crime. When Genghis Khan conquered most of the known world it was said a child could ride across his empire with a sack of gold. Even today real crime is very low in totalitarian states. Nothing like knowing that you are risking your hand or head to deter the same crimes that will get you a suspended sentence or a few months in jail in the US.

I support the death penalty for child molestation and rape, torture, and murder with overwhelming proof. I also support getting it done in five years or less from conviction. Furthermore I support giving judges not more than 20% leeway in sentencing. Ridiculous that one person gets many years in prison for the same conviction someone else gets a suspended sentence for. No sure punishment even if you are caught is the major reason for the level of crime in the US.

As for this thread, I would suggest a caution list. One questionable deal gets a person on this list. It doesn't mean a person is good or bad, it means do your homework even more carefully than usual. Three strikes and you are out, find somewhere else to do your fiddling!

Hu

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Like I said early in this thread there are far more good transactions, than bad one.

 

[Quesports]

Yes this is likely true but the bad ones stand out the most! If you had been the victim of a bad transaction I am fairly sure you would bring it to the attention of the forum members also. Some are just more diplomatic than others but all have the same agenda.
Dan

 

[stevekur1]

They should have more scrutiny on who they let sell. maybe there should be a fee to sell or just a membership.

I myself would not like the idea of this but it would deter all the bad apples out of the system!

Steve

 

[Dawgie]

People could always use an escrow service.

I completly agree. I have mention this myself several times. This would be easy, fair to both parties, simple to institute, and low in cost.

I forget who the party was that was mentioned in a previous thread but they do offer and third party service.

 

[ratcues]

Why can't AZ do a "registered seller" type of account where a person pays a membership due AND has to fully disclose his name, address, etc. This info would not be readily available to buyers unless there is a dispute or pattern of dishonesty.

If there is a dispute or pattern, the affected buyer could have access to this info and use as to file small claims or whatever.