how did these two get on the mosconi team

jay helfert said:
... You are correct, both teams were attempting to make the one ball in the side. It took them one day (Day One) to figure out how to do it and then it was on. ...
Click to expand...

Jay -- I think they had it figured out from practice and warm-ups. For example, in the very first match (Team Match), the 1-ball was made in the side in the first 5 games by 5 different breakers. Here are the stats for making the 1-ball in the side pocket on the break (without regard to whether the break was also a foul or illegal):

Day 1 -- 21 of 38 breaks = 55%
Day 2 -- 28 of 41 breaks = 68%
Day 3 -- 21 of 39 breaks = 54%
Day 4 -- 15 of 34 breaks = 44%
Total -- 85 of 152 breaks = 56%
 
They were really breaking good on day two..

AtLarge said:
Jay -- I think they had it figured out from practice and warm-ups. For example, in the very first match (Team Match), the 1-ball was made in the side in the first 5 games by 5 different breakers. Here are the stats for making the 1-ball in the side pocket on the break (without regard to whether the break was also a foul or illegal):

Day 1 -- 21 of 38 breaks = 55%
Day 2 -- 28 of 41 breaks = 68%
Day 3 -- 21 of 39 breaks = 54%
Day 4 -- 15 of 34 breaks = 44%
Total -- 85 of 152 breaks = 56%
Click to expand...
 
AtLarge said:
Jay -- I think they had it figured out from practice and warm-ups. For example, in the very first match (Team Match), the 1-ball was made in the side in the first 5 games by 5 different breakers. Here are the stats for making the 1-ball in the side pocket on the break (without regard to whether the break was also a foul or illegal):

Day 1 -- 21 of 38 breaks = 55%
Day 2 -- 28 of 41 breaks = 68%
Day 3 -- 21 of 39 breaks = 54%
Day 4 -- 15 of 34 breaks = 44%
Total -- 85 of 152 breaks = 56%
Click to expand...

Pretty good guess on my part. I said they made it about half the time.
 
Watching the matches,not knowing who's voice was who's except for Jims,
sounded more bias against the Americans than the Europeans.
When the Americans made a bad shot like Mike,or Dennis did all I
heard was how horrible the shot was over and over.
When the Europeans missed and left a open ball,I heard on a few
occasions how unlucky they got to leave a ball out in the open but
nothing about how brutal the shot was.
I actually had a good laugh on how one-sided it came off.My buddy
pointed out the same thing to me before I told him the same thing.
We are both Canadians by the way(don't hold that against me):)
 
ding, ding ding

You just posted the 1,000 pound gorilla ... - Jay's commentary.

It was heart breaking as an American to listen to it.



scsuxci said:
Watching the matches,not knowing who's voice was who's except for Jims,
sounded more bias against the Americans than the Europeans.
When the Americans made a bad shot like Mike,or Dennis did all I
heard was how horrible the shot was over and over.
When the Europeans missed and left a open ball,I heard on a few
occasions how unlucky they got to leave a ball out in the open but
nothing about how brutal the shot was.
I actually had a good laugh on how one-sided it came off.My buddy
pointed out the same thing to me before I told him the same thing.
We are both Canadians by the way(don't hold that against me):)
Click to expand...
 
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Mixed feelings

I am always pleased when I hear that Jay will be commentating a match,he is typically very entertaining and clearly knowledgeable which adds to the enjoyment of the match.

During the Mosconi broadcast I was a little surprised by the negativity on missed shots. There were horrible shots made by world class players which to me speaks more to the environment and pressure. These factors could have been emphasized more as opposed to just bad play.

From my perspective, which frankly means nothing, the only aggravating part of the commentating was the overuse of "turning point" and the "best shot of the tournament" and in one instance "the best shot in the history of the Mosconi Cup" which is pure hyperbole. I guess the commentators are guilty of bowing to the pressure of being on a world stage just the same as the players.

Overall, the commentators added to the experience, and, much like the players... Did a hell of a lot better than any of their critics posting here would do.
 
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jay helfert said:
Actually the winning team must win 55 games in the eleven winning matches to take the Cup! And Europe and USA played something close to 150 games before there was a winner this year. That's a lot of pool in my book!

I do agree that there is nothing more exciting than a hill-hill match, where it all comes down to one game! I don't care if it's 10-10, 8-8 or 4-4. You do know that in the Challenge of Champions they play one game matches to decide the winner, after each player has won one Race to Five. I'm not so sure I agree with this, but I'm not the one putting up the dough. :wink:

I don't see any problem with the rules either. Alternate breaks gives both players chances at the table and adds importance to the opening lag. Having to get three balls down or past the head string makes the cut break risky, although it isn't quite as bad as you might think giving up control of the table. Now if it was BIH that would be a severe penalty for a failed break. I also like the 30 second shot clock with one extension per rack. No one gets the luxury of examining a shot endlessly. They have to get up there and shoot!

Anyway, that's how I see it and it absolutely makes sense for television. This way they are able to show entire matches without editing LIVE! We never left the air while the matches were in progress, being live on SkySports 4-5 hours each night. Now that's coverage! And there were MILLIONS of viewers every night! Let's compare that with 500 people watching two guys play a marathon session online and you tell me who has the better formula. Just saying.......
Click to expand...

Why not just implement a minimum speed for the break shot? Make it so that the breaker has to hit the balls at least 18 mph or something like that? This would also add another variable to the match that would make it interesting to the viewers. I have a hard time watching a guy make a ball on the break and have to give the table up simply because an object ball hit the point of the side pocket. A ball that would have otherwise made it into the kitchen.
 
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joelpope said:
I am always pleased when I hear that Jay will be commentating a match,he is typically very entertaining and clearly knowledgeable which adds to the enjoyment of the match.

During the Mosconi broadcast I was a little surprised by the negativity on missed shots. There were horrible shots made by world class players which to me speaks more to the environment and pressure. These factors could have been emphasized more as opposed to just bad play.

From my perspective, which frankly means nothing, the only aggravating part of the commentating was the overuse of "turning point" and the "best shot of the tournament" and in one instance "the best shot in the history of the Mosconi Cup" which is pure hyperbole. I guess the commentators are guilty of bowing to the pressure of being on a world stage just the same as the players.

Overall, the commentators added to the experience, and, much like the players... Did a hell of a lot better than any of their critics posting here would do.
Click to expand...
They did do a good job overall,just pointing out
what seemed very obvious.
I think there's many people on this forum that would do great
commentary,myself being one of them.
I know as commentary you have to say something or its dead air.
But the pressure of commentating is not even in the same realm
as what the players are going through.imo.
Like I said in my post,I had no clue who was saying it but it just seemed
one-sided,that's all.
 
BasementDweller said:
Why not just implement a minimum speed for the break shot? Make it so that the breaker has to hit the balls at least 18 mph or something like that? This would also add another variable to the match that would make it interesting to the viewers. I have a hard time watching a guy make a ball on the break and have to give the table up simple because an object ball hit the point of the side pocket. A ball that would have otherwise made it into the kitchen.
Click to expand...


Actually, not a bad idea.

Lou Figueroa
 
BasementDweller said:
Why not just implement a minimum speed for the break shot? Make it so that the breaker has to hit the balls at least 18 mph or something like that? This would also add another variable to the match that would make it interesting to the viewers. I have a hard time watching a guy make a ball on the break and have to give the table up simple because an object ball hit the point of the side pocket. A ball that would have otherwise made it into the kitchen.
Click to expand...

With today's technology, it seems like that would be doable. And it directly measures whether they hit it "hard" (enough), whereas passing the current test requires hitting it hard enough plus avoiding random collisions that prevent enough balls from reaching the head string. Good thought!
 
in over 5o years of playing
against many of the best players and some of the worst
i have discovered that people who criticize other players like this
usually don't play a lick,or bet their own money

and seldom did they play baseball as a kid
 
scsuxci said:
Watching the matches,not knowing who's voice was who's except for Jims,
sounded more bias against the Americans than the Europeans.
When the Americans made a bad shot like Mike,or Dennis did all I
heard was how horrible the shot was over and over.
When the Europeans missed and left a open ball,I heard on a few
occasions how unlucky they got to leave a ball out in the open but
nothing about how brutal the shot was.
I actually had a good laugh on how one-sided it came off.My buddy
pointed out the same thing to me before I told him the same thing.
We are both Canadians by the way(don't hold that against me):)
Click to expand...


All I can tell you is that I call it the way I see it, regardless of who's shooting the ball. All the players are friends of mine and I want to see them all play well if possible. The better they play, the more interesting the matches are. Perhaps subconsciously I am pulling for the American side, since they have suffered so badly in the last few years. I truly felt that this was a team that could turn it all around. For this reason I may have felt a little bit of a letdown when I saw the same pattern emerge as in the last few years.

All of us thought Team USA was toast after falling behind 9-6 on day three, and playing poorly in doing so. The stirring comeback begun by a courageous Dennis Hatch, followed by the gutsy play of Johnny The Great One and then Shane ("He can't beat me") doing a number on Darren, and we all had hopes of a miracle happening. The three of us agreed that this was the two toughest matches for USA to win, but in my heart I felt Brandon might pull it off. He was willing but Melling just never gave him a chance, playing inspired pool as he had all week. We knew Mike had been weak but we prayed that he would finally get it together in his final match. Alas it was not to be, despite the encouragement of his entire team. Mike could never get anything going and was unable to take advantage of the opportunities presented to him.

It may sound critical on here to some, but that's my job, not to sugar coat it and make everybody happy. I do know that the powers that be who produce these shows appreciate my candor regardless of who is playing. Sorry if that bothers some of you, but I won't do it any other way. That would be a sell out imo.

P.S. I played a lot of baseball as a kid, every day in baseball season. I was a pretty good little second baseman, center fielder and even a pitcher on occasion. :rolleyes:
 
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I have no regrets

Hungarian said:
ding, ding ding

You just posted the 1,000 pound gorilla ... - Jay's commentary.

It was heart breaking as an American to listen to it.
Click to expand...



I have no regrets about any of the strategic decisions we made and coming down to 9/9 the last day was as exciting an outcome as possible. We all know that in any match or any tournament you can only win 50% of the time. Those last two matches could have went either way, as could any of the precious matches.

The key is to give always give yourself a chance to win and let nature take it's course. In the races to 5 there is more luck {and pressure} than normal and from my experience you have to play a race to 15 to have the "luck factor," truly even out. With that being said I believe over the course of the tournament Europe played more consistently with all things considered.

After taking in to consideration the breaking rules I felt we were an underdog after talking to the players and seeing the results of the first two days. More than anything it just takes us out of our element and the "cut break" is something we feel uncomfortable performing.

If you ask the USA players about the break they would ALL say they would prefer the one racked on the spot and break squarely. If you ask the European's they would ALL say they like the 9 racked on the spot and the "cut break" utilized.

You can come to any conclusion you like about what I just said, however, if the one is racked on the spot I would bet very high on the USA team, and with the 9 on the spot I would not. The break is directly connected to a players confidence and I think it had a negative effect on Mike D. more than anyone. Mike's break makes him a feared player in 9 Ball and 10 Ball, and making him hit the "cut break" takes this weapon from him.

I'm certainly not taking anything away from the European's victory and I've made it crystal clear that they were the best team last week. This is just my opinion on the "break factor" based on what I saw and what I heard from the American players. I feel like we adapted pretty well to the "cut break", and I know none of the American players enjoyed doing it.

Maybe we can have a 10 Ball version of the event based out of the USA to add some variety. I still think it would be very close and equally exciting.
 
jay helfert said:
It may sound critical on here to some, but that's my job, not to sugar coat it and make everybody happy. I do know that the powers that be who produce these shows appreciate my candor regardless of who is playing. Sorry if that bothers some of you, but I won't do it any other way. That would be a sell out imo.
Click to expand...

I enjoyed your commentary on the Cup matches. At first, I thought I would be watching an American telecast with slightly biased announcers for the USA. I was surprised to hear a neutral commentary giving honest opinions about the players' mistakes. You and Jerry did call it like you saw it. So much the better!

Best,
Mike
 
CJ Wiley said:
I have no regrets about any of the strategic decisions we made and coming down to 9/9 the last day was as exciting an outcome as possible. We all know that in any match or any tournament you can only win 50% of the time. Those last two matches could have went either way, as could any of the precious matches.

The key is to give always give yourself a chance to win and let nature take it's course. In the races to 5 there is more luck {and pressure} than normal and from my experience you have to play a race to 15 to have the "luck factor," truly even out. With that being said I believe over the course of the tournament Europe played more consistently with all things considered.

After taking in to consideration the breaking rules I felt we were an underdog after talking to the players and seeing the results of the first two days. More than anything it just takes us out of our element and the "cut break" is something we feel uncomfortable performing.

If you ask the USA players about the break they would ALL say they would prefer the one racked on the spot and break squarely. If you ask the European's they would ALL say they like the 9 racked on the spot and the "cut break" utilized.

You can come to any conclusion you like about what I just said, however, if the one is racked on the spot I would bet very high on the USA team, and with the 9 on the spot I would not. The break is directly connected to a players confidence and I think it had a negative effect on Mike D. more than anyone. Mike's break makes him a feared player in 9 Ball and 10 Ball, and making him hit the "cut break" takes this weapon from him.

I'm certainly not taking anything away from the European's victory and I've made it crystal clear that they were the best team last week. This is just my opinion on the "break factor" based on what I saw and what I heard from the American players. I feel like we adapted pretty well to the "cut break", and I know none of the American players enjoyed doing it.

Maybe we can have a 10 Ball version of the event based out of the USA to add some variety. I still think it would be very close and equally exciting.
Click to expand...

CJ,
Being there in person gives first hand knowledge of what is happening! You can sit at home and watch what you see on ESPN 3 all you want to. It is not the same. How can you feel any pressure sitting at home watching?

I did not like the break format myself, we never break any 9 ball rack like that. I realize it was the same for every player, but they always break like that and have been doing it for a long while. That is like giving you a car with the steering wheel on the right side of the car and tell you to drive it real good!
CJ, I think you guys did a great job. And that is just my opinion. Thank you Team USA! No excuses needed.
Many Regards,
Lock N Load.
 
I enjoyed watching this years' Mosocni Cup. I saw about half of it. Commentating was OK. The effusive complimenting of Appleton was a little over the top. Maybe because for whatever reason, I'm not a fan of his. As commentating goes, I like what I've heard from Mike Sigel on various things.

I accept the MC for what it is, if that format brings in the fans then that's good. I prefer longer races, at least to something like 9 or 11. The Euro fans were not respectful. Many times they were loud when it was USA's shot, the player had to wait while the ref finally asked for quiet, all the time the shot clock was running. That's an unfair advantage for Europe. If they warned any fans or threw anyone out, I'm not aware of it.
 
AtLarge said:
Jay -- I think they had it figured out from practice and warm-ups. For example, in the very first match (Team Match), the 1-ball was made in the side in the first 5 games by 5 different breakers. Here are the stats for making the 1-ball in the side pocket on the break (without regard to whether the break was also a foul or illegal):

Day 1 -- 21 of 38 breaks = 55%
Day 2 -- 28 of 41 breaks = 68%
Day 3 -- 21 of 39 breaks = 54%
Day 4 -- 15 of 34 breaks = 44%
Total -- 85 of 152 breaks = 56%
Click to expand...

The one ball in the side is how the Chinese and Taiwanese play it. I honestly had never thought about trying to make the one in the side consciously until I got here and saw them doing it over and over. And they do it with the regular rack, with the magic rack, doesn't matter. Only with the magic rack the wing ball is wired as well.

Now I can put the one in the side pretty consistently as well.

Maybe it's time to eliminate 9 ball as the MC game and make it 10 ball instead. All through the years all these promoters keep jacking with 9 ball and having to adjust the rack adjust the break adjust the rules etc.... with ten ball it's much harder to figure out the break IMO.
 
JB Cases said:
The one ball in the side is how the Chinese and Taiwanese play it. I honestly had never thought about trying to make the one in the side consciously until I got here and saw them doing it over and over. And they do it with the regular rack, with the magic rack, doesn't matter. Only with the magic rack the wing ball is wired as well.

Now I can put the one in the side pretty consistently as well.

Maybe it's time to eliminate 9 ball as the MC game and make it 10 ball instead. All through the years all these promoters keep jacking with 9 ball and having to adjust the rack adjust the break adjust the rules etc.... with ten ball it's much harder to figure out the break IMO.
Click to expand...

I totally agree with 10 ball being the game. Personally I'd like to see it on a 10 foot Diamond as well
 
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