How Do the Pros Aim

Neil said:
Well, he does, not for aiming, but for position play. I find it a little surprising though that you say you don't know any pros that use aiming systems, but when Stan showed you his system, you say that is how you have always aimed. So, essentially, you use an aiming system. And the one you use happens to be called CTE or Pro-One.

What people seem to dismiss, is that aiming systems just didn't come out of the blue for someone to make some $$. for the most part, they derived from ways very good people learned to aim naturally, and then were broken down and refined into actual steps to follow. The steps are just to learn how to aim that way. Once it's ingrained, then, as in CTE, it evolves, or should evolve into what Stan calls Pro-One. Pro One is essentially using CTE with your subconscious, not manual steps. Just like you said you aim.
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Ok Neil,I'll agree with that 100%,then.I was trying not to be demeaning to you while ago.Your a smart guy.John B.
 
JBKY said:
I don't know what you are saying really but If you don't mind I would like to use this to say something.

My good friend,Stan Shuffet's been to my house quite of few times and I've been to his a few times.I just feel the need to expound on this.
When Stan first started to use this method of teaching he tried to explain It to me,for when I'm teaching.( we've swapped a few Ideas before)Well he started to show me the system and I almost Immediately said to him, Stan..that's the way I've been aiming my whole life.He said,It Is? I said sure Is. Then he said that It was amazing to him that I had learned that I my own.So his system Is real
for sure.I don't have any Idea how I picked It up but like I said I had been doing It my whole pool life without knowing It.He found a good way to teach It and to show It.It just came to me naturally I guess.Give me a call Stan,I'll play Landon somemore here pretty soon.Thanks,John B.
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Well, there you have it................ ANOTHER PRO PLAYER comes out of the closet on CTE/Pro One. Who'd a thunk it?

OK, so John didn't learn it from Stan but has been aiming this way all his life. hmmmmmm.

John, put on your earmuffs and purchase some antiseptic ointment for the occasional ant bites.

Oh and about Landon.... He's got a girl now and you will need to give him lots of weight. :D
 
JBKY said:
Aiming Is way over rated.What about the golfer who stands beside the golf ball,not behind It.How does he aim? Just alot of practice.But In competion,you really shouldn't be thinking about how you are aiming.Ya'll ever shoot a shotgun? The first thing an Instructor will tell you Is..don't aim,point and shoot,that's what they'll tell ya.99.9 percent of all pros play by feel.That's why their pros.They don't think and worry bout all this aiming stuff.I've been around the block.I've hung out with and learned from,oh..Buddy Hall,Nick Varner,Earl strickland,well quite a few pretty good players.I have never gotten Involved In these ole aiming threads,but I just can't take It anymore.Hope I don't offend to many with this,but It's sure how I feel.I'll probably be ran off after this,but so what.John B.
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Thank you John B. The above statement made my month on here. Johnnyt
 
Neil said:
See John, this is where I think a lot of people misconstrue aiming systems. The goal of any aiming system is to get one on the right line to make the shot. Many of the systems do this so well that on most shots, you don't even need to look at the ob once you get on that line. That does NOT mean that one should not look at the ob. Aiming systems are great to be able to get on the right line for those that have trouble doing so. Even good ball pocketers have trouble with certain shots, and on those an aiming system can help them be more consistent with it.

By the time anyone is up to the pro level, they are shooting on subconscious memory. They aren't consciously using any system to aim. However, they may very well have used a system in the past, and made it a part of them so well that now it is akin to just "feel". Feel is nothing more than using your subconscious to shoot, and that is what aiming systems are designed to do. If you are still consciously thinking about every aspect of an aiming system after a year or so, you are doing it wrong.

Buddy teaches the clock system for the cb. It works, and works well. And, I guarantee you he uses it. But, he doesn't use it the same way anymore that he first used it. At first, he learned 1:00 does this, 2:00 does that, ect. He no longer has to consciously think about those things. He just has to look at the ball, decide where he wants it to go, and his subconscious will automatically hit the right part of the cb.

So, the question now would be, does Buddy use a system, or not? If you answer "yes", you would be right. If you answer "no", you would be half right. His conscious doesn't use the system any more, but his subconscious does.
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I think you've hit the nail on the head. Mechanical Aiming systems become subconscious aiming (feel aiming) when you no longer have to think about them. Every now and then I will consciously revert back to Buddy Hall's Clock System Or Joe Villalpondo's kicking system and even consciously, they pay big dividends as do most aiming systems.

Some people don't have to go through these conscious steps and some do.

When I play my best pool I am conscious of many things but when I pull the trigger I hope to be at a point where I am letting go of all conscious thought. Getting to that point is a different story.
 
JoeyA said:
Well, there you have it................ ANOTHER PRO PLAYER comes out of the closet on CTE/Pro One. Who'd a thunk it?

OK, so John didn't learn it from Stan but has been aiming this way all his life. hmmmmmm.

John, put on your earmuffs and purchase some antiseptic ointment for the occasional ant bites.

Oh and about Landon.... He's got a girl now and you will need to give him lots of weight. :D
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Ok Joey A,Thanks for the heads up.How did this happen? now I'm talking to myself.Oh well,Joey I thought Stan was landon's manager.How do you keep up with all your jobs? Your one of them there multie taskers,uhh? I don't need or use no stinkin systems,Well,I take that back..mine's called PRACTICE and gettin In the fire. haha.John B.
 
JBKY said:
Aiming Is way over rated.What about the golfer who stands beside the golf ball,not behind It.How does he aim? Just alot of practice.But In competion,you really shouldn't be thinking about how you are aiming.Ya'll ever shoot a shotgun? The first thing an Instructor will tell you Is..don't aim,point and shoot,that's what they'll tell ya.99.9 percent of all pros play by feel.That's why their pros.They don't think and worry bout all this aiming stuff.I've been around the block.I've hung out with and learned from,oh..Buddy Hall,Nick Varner,Earl strickland,well quite a few pretty good players.I have never gotten Involved In these ole aiming threads,but I just can't take It anymore.Hope I don't offend to many with this,but It's sure how I feel.I'll probably be ran off after this,but so what.John B.
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Say you have a 3 ball combination in front of you. So you must hit the ball extremely accurate to pocket the 3ball combo. Do you just get down and just see it or do you use some sort of ghostball/contact point thing?
 
cleary said:
Say you have a 3 ball combination in front of you. So you must hit the ball extremely accurate to pocket the 3ball combo. Do you just get down and just see it or do you use some sort of ghostball/contact point thing?
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Wheew,good question.I'll tell ya the truth,I do alot better on those sorts
of shots when I just let my mind and eyes go and shoot.I hate combos specially on a tight table.Seems every time I think look measure and all that,I'll miss.I think to answer your question to the best of my ablity,It would be both of which you described.That is the "ghostball/contact point"
I know that's not much help though.I try to avoid combos at all cost.Seems all young players hit them so good(I used to)but as soon as you miss a couple of them or get a little older and find out that their not that easy,they become alot harder to make.John B.
 
C.Milian said:
...............figures.

100% Brumback does not hit the ball like that.
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Did you know that sometimes I don't understand what your talking about
alot of the times and then sometimes again? Can I help you Sir? What do you mean,100%hit know balls like that? I just don't understand your questions very good most of them times,that's all.Thank you,John B.
 
JBKY said:
Aiming Is way over rated.What about the golfer who stands beside the golf ball,not behind It.How does he aim? Just alot of practice.But In competion,you really shouldn't be thinking about how you are aiming.Ya'll ever shoot a shotgun? The first thing an Instructor will tell you Is..don't aim,point and shoot,that's what they'll tell ya.99.9 percent of all pros play by feel.That's why their pros.They don't think and worry bout all this aiming stuff.I've been around the block.I've hung out with and learned from,oh..Buddy Hall,Nick Varner,Earl strickland,well quite a few pretty good players.I have never gotten Involved In these ole aiming threads,but I just can't take It anymore.Hope I don't offend to many with this,but It's sure how I feel.I'll probably be ran off after this,but so what.John B.
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John, I am confused by your statements, like the one above, as well as the one later on where you say, "Do your thinking first, then bend over and let it happen" and then one where you said, "I don't use aiming systems, I use methods and techniques for the shot at hand... I just think people do way to much worrying about aiming, that's all."

But then you say, "Well he (Stan) started to show me the system and I almost immediately said to him, Stan..that's the way I've been aiming my whole life. He said,It Is? I said sure is. Then he said that It was amazing to him that I had learned that I my own. So his system is real for sure."

Having personally watched Stan's DVD on his aiming system, I don't understand how you could, on the one hand, be saying stuff like you shouldn't be thinking about aiming and just let it happen, while seemingly endorsing Stan's system as the very same one you have used your whole life.

Stan's system is, IMO, pretty complex and after it came out, numerous people came on line and posted that they were having trouble with it, even after watching the DVD repeatedly. Are you saying that you use various pivots, turn your body sometimes, adjust bridge lengths, and aim at the edges of the balls by selecting grid coordinates and computing the appropriate formula for different shots to aim?

Lou Figueroa
 
SCCues said:
I've been wanting to ask these questions for a long time and I thought the forum might be a good place to get some answers.

Do the pro players know a secret about how to aim or do they all do it the way that suits them best?

They have to know something that most of the rest of us do not know. Pro players make the game look so easy. I've had many discussions with a friend of mine about how pro players make the game look so easy and we've yet to come up with an answer. If you know exactly where to aim every shot then it boils down to execution of the fundamentals.

I'd love to hear some thoughts on why the game looks so easy when we watch the pros play. Is it hours and hours of practice, natural ability, or do they really know a secret about aiming?

James
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I was recently asked by a newer player to the game "what do you see when you look at the table?"

My response was this :grin-square::

MatrixCode.jpg
 
lfigueroa said:
John, I am confused by your statements, like the one above, as well as the one later on where you say, "Do your thinking first, then bend over and let it happen" and then one where you said, "I don't use aiming systems, I use methods and techniques for the shot at hand... I just think people do way to much worrying about aiming, that's all."

But then you say, "Well he (Stan) started to show me the system and I almost immediately said to him, Stan..that's the way I've been aiming my whole life. He said,It Is? I said sure is. Then he said that It was amazing to him that I had learned that I my own. So his system is real for sure."

Having personally watched Stan's DVD on his aiming system, I don't understand how you could, on the one hand, be saying stuff like you shouldn't be thinking about aiming and just let it happen, while seemingly endorsing Stan's system as the very same one you have used your whole life.

Stan's system is, IMO, pretty complex and after it came out, numerous people came on line and posted that they were having trouble with it, even after watching the DVD repeatedly. Are you saying that you use various pivots, turn your body sometimes, adjust bridge lengths, and aim at the edges of the balls by selecting grid coordinates and computing the appropriate formula for different shots to aim?

Lou Figueroa
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Well Lou,It's like this.I didn't even,well I still don't know what a pivot Is.No I do not turn my bridge hand or use different length bridges or turn my body this way or that way, or any of that.As soon as he started to show me(we didn't go Into all those things you mentioned) There was know way In the world I was going to change anything about my pool game after oh 30 or 35 years.The only thing we talked about was the part where he was trying to show me how to aim a cut shot.That's when I said,well Stan that's the way I've been aiming my whole life.What I should have said was,well, Stan that's the way I've been "cutting" balls my whole life!!! It could be that's what I said.Man how'ed did I get myself Into this mess?
I have been staying out of this for so long.Thanks for the grillin ole buddy.lol yeah I know..well you shouldn't have opened your mouth In a thread such as this.That's what alot of people are or will be saying.Oh well,they can't eat me.John B.
 
JBKY said:
Well Lou,It's like this.I didn't even,well I still don't know what a pivot Is.No I do not turn my bridge hand or use different length bridges or turn my body this way or that way, or any of that.As soon as he started to show me(we didn't go Into all those things you mentioned) There was know way In the world I was going to change anything about my pool game after oh 30 or 35 years.The only thing we talked about was the part where he was trying to show me how to aim a cut shot.That's when I said,well Stan that's the way I've been aiming my whole life.What I should have said was,well, Stan that's the way I've been "cutting" balls my whole life!!! It could be that's what I said.Man how'ed did I get myself Into this mess?
I have been staying out of this for so long.Thanks for the grillin ole buddy.lol yeah I know..well you shouldn't have opened your mouth In a thread such as this.That's what alot of people are or will be saying.Oh well,they can't eat me.John B.
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And now someone will read this post and manipulate it into John being a lifelong CTE/Pro One user by saying.....
 
JBKY said:
Well Lou,It's like this.I didn't even,well I still don't know what a pivot Is.No I do not turn my bridge hand or use different length bridges or turn my body this way or that way, or any of that.As soon as he started to show me(we didn't go Into all those things you mentioned) There was know way In the world I was going to change anything about my pool game after oh 30 or 35 years.The only thing we talked about was the part where he was trying to show me how to aim a cut shot.That's when I said,well Stan that's the way I've been aiming my whole life.What I should have said was,well, Stan that's the way I've been "cutting" balls my whole life!!! It could be that's what I said.Man how'ed did I get myself Into this mess?
I have been staying out of this for so long.Thanks for the grillin ole buddy.lol yeah I know..well you shouldn't have opened your mouth In a thread such as this.That's what alot of people are or will be saying.Oh well,they can't eat me.John B.
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lol, thanks for the clarification, John. I thought it was something like that. Having played you a couple of times I just couldn't see how all the CTE/Pro 1 aiming gyrations fit into how you shoot.

BTW, it's a pleasure having you around on threads like this -- you are a straight shooter, figuratively and literally. And you're not thinned-skinned either and I think everybody appreciates your willingness to mix it up with the locals here :-)

Lou Figueroa
 
Neil said:
1. John said that he aims the same way Stan showed him, but he learned it by himself.

2. The way Stan showed him happens to have a name, it's called CTE/Pro-one.

3. The way Stan teaches it, it is called a system.

4. Once you have the system ingrained, you are supposed to move on from the individual steps in the system to your subconscious. Hence, what some would call feel.

5. I actually read what John said, and took him at his word.

6. You, Lou, and others just can't grasp just what CTE is, or how it is supposed to be used, so you both jump up and start beating anyone that dares to use the word CTE just like the little monkeys in another thread.


I'll try and make it simple for you- ever see someone that has had a stroke and lost some use of part of their body? What do they have to do? They go to rehab. There, they are taught the steps to use that limb again. They have to consciously think about moving it, and rewire their brain as much as possible through repetition until it becomes automatic to them again. Once it becomes automatic, they no longer have to consciously think about moving their arm, and the steps to do it, they just do it, they do it by "feel". CTE is the same thing as rehab. Some need it, some don't. Some need it for certain shots that for whatever reason their brain just never locked in on how to make that shot.

Just like with the person in rehab, they are not going to be performing at their best until they can learn to do it automatically. But, in the meantime, during rehab, when they have to think about it, they can still perform better than they could without the rehab.
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lol. You must have been writing this as John was posting his last post.

Lou Figueroa
 
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