How do the pro's support themselves
- Thread starter Terry Ardeno
- Start date
mikeiniowa said:
A lot of good points here:
First, very few people can watch pool live with a good vantage point....NASCAR, Football games, Tennis, Basketball....a fan can still see the action from afar, so more people go to the event, and more people can walk away with the experience...pool, you need to be close and have a good vantage point to really appreciate it.....pool can't have 50k fans at a big event, all partying, sharing the same experience....
Second, as stated above, the other sports show you something you can't do....NASCAR has crashes at 200mph, Football has incredible shoestring catches, tennis has 140mph serves and saves between the legs, Basketball has dunks from the freethrow line....pool has guys playing just like some of the better players do at your local hall....
Third, defense kills sports....NASCAR fans won't show up if those guys aren't fighting for the win at the end of the race....Football fans would rather see a 31-28 back and forth thriller than a 6-3, grind it out, running defensive game....Basketball needs dunks and three-pointers, and some defence is exciting with blocked shots, and steals that lead to dunks, but a 60-40 game would lull you to sleep.....the average guy that wants to watch pool....that's me
....wants to see jump shots, and aggressive kick shots, banks, masse....we want to see these guys/gals do the amazing things that we cannot....I was huge into beach v-ball in the nineties, and it got primetime weekend coverage on the big networks....you'd see jumpserves, dig saves, and guys jumping 4 feet out of the sand to spike the ball at 100mph....the money got big, and people realized they could save energy by rolling the balls to targets....a huge viewing audience tuned out quickly, including fans like me......a great defensive shot is OK every now and then, but people don't wanna see stuff they can do at home....they wanna see something spectacular....my two cents...
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NYC cue dude
Banned
JAM said:History sure repeats itself when it comes to American pool. If you read some of the comments in the pool newspapers from the '70s, they were experiencing the EXACT same problems as today.
In fact, ironically, there were several big tournaments and tours which didn't pay out the tournament monies at the conclusion of the events, very similar to what has happened in recent times with the IPT. It was worse, though, because the checks the players received actually bounced. One tournament advertised a large amount of monies, and when it came time to pay the players, the players received a check for a lesser amount than advertised.
Atari and somebody put on a huge event in the '80s. Jim Rempe won a car.
I think players of Keith's era have seen it all when it comes to organizations coming and going, not getting paid, et cetera. When the IPT came along, Keith and players from his ilk got excited when they saw the huge payouts, plus an opportunity to earn a decent living playing pool. Today, it's a little hard to pack up, go on the road, travel hundreds of miles, expend several thousand dollars, spent a week at a venue, and in order to break even, you gotta come in first, second, or third place.
I believe Keith will play pool again as he's still got a little fire left in his jug, but the current political climate is a difficult environment for some -- not all -- pool players. Truly, Lou Butera, Mosconi, Minnesota Fats, and Mizerak made money on pool, but it sure as heck wasn't as a professional pool contender.
The younger American players of today hopefully will enter a new era and earn a decent living competing professionally. I, for one, would love to see it happen. I just do not know how or what has to happen to effect this change. I was excited to see Shane Van Boening in the finals at the BCA Open. Though he didn't win it, I don't think we have seen the last of him quite yet. He will be a dominant force on the tournament trail up ahead, and I will be rooting for him all the way; that is, unless he's playing Keith, of course!
JAM
Great post JAM.
The problem today is that the talent of today has surpassd the ability of the sport to support itself.
It appears that despite being a more profitable business for manufacturing companies, it is more difficult to earn a living today as a pro than lets say, 20 years ago. Pool tournaments have been paying 10k and 20k for 1st place for nearly 2 decades. The cost of living isn't the only problem facing todays pros.
As the world has gotten "smaller", todays biggest events draws more elite players across international boundaries. 15 or 20 years ago, there were 5 or 6 dominating players. Sigel, rempe, hall, strickland, varner etc. 20 years before that, there were 5 or 6 guys from that era and so on.
Today, there are 5 or 6 from each country that would be a threat to win a world class event. Furthermore, if you add in the truly world class talent in asia, that doesn't normally travel outside their hemisphere (Yes, I know that they sometimes do for the wpc and world 8 ball), there are guys all over the world who if they showed up, have a real shot at winning an event like for instance, the US Open.
Basically what I am saying, is that combined with the paltry payouts, AND the regularity that top events draw more elite players, makes earning pool now and imo, the future (unless something drastic changes), a poor choice of a profession.
rg
NYC cue dude said:
I think you hit the nail right on the head. Very valid points, and I agree.
NYC cue dude said:
What's worse, IMHO, is to have an American-produced event which prohibits Americans from competition on United States soil, but allows international players to compete in the event, calling it an "invitational." The BCA Open prohibits very competent American players from competing when it allows a ranking system to be used as an entry qualification, when the tour itself only has two or three events a year. The qualification to get on the tour is to pay 100 bucks. What a joke this would be in any other sport.
Sure, it is great to see pool players with talent from around the world competing under one roof. What is bad, though, is that the American-produced event is contributing, unknowingly, to the demise of pool in the United States. The existing lot of American professional pool players is diminishing, and if this practice continues, then in a couple of decades, there were be maybe a handful of American pros; that is, unless they leave the profession to pursue a job to keep a roof over their heads.
I got a chuckle out of reading John Schmidt's post on this forum a week or so ago when he said -- JOKINGLY -- that an American pool player can follow the tournament trail today and hope to make $20,000 per annum. Of course, the expenses will narrow that down to a small profit, if any.
Americans need to unite in pool and look out for their own. If they don't, soon all pool events will be held overseas. No more American pool pie to share with the international players. They will leave, too, and compete overseas in Asian-Pacific Islander countries where pool is considered a legitimate sport.
No more American players? No more American pool.
JAM
P.S. Just like rugby, cricket, and other sports are popular in other countries, pool is becoming more and more a game for bar bangers, social shooters, and league players in the States. Professional pool in America can only survive if there is some fresh meat in the lot of American pool players. We need to cultivate American players, not prohibit their opportunities to compete. And this includes the EXISTING American professional players.
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TrackKing said:
I would like to nominate this as the best first post of all time.
Jamison
JAM said:I think you hit the nail right on the head. Very valid points, and I agree.
What's worse, IMHO, is to have an American-produced event which prohibits Americans from competition on United States soil, but allows international players to compete in the event, calling it an "invitational." The BCA Open prohibits very competent American players from competing when it allows a ranking system to be used as an entry qualification, when the tour itself only has two or three events a year. The qualification to get on the tour is to pay 100 bucks. What a joke this would be in any other sport.
Sure, it is great to see pool players with talent from around the world competing under one roof. What is bad, though, is that the American-produced event is contributing, unknowingly, to the demise of pool in the United States. The existing lot of American professional pool players is diminishing, and if this practice continues, then in a couple of decades, there were be maybe a handful of American pros; that is, unless they leave the profession to pursue a job to keep a roof over their heads.
I got a chuckle out of reading John Schmidt's post on this forum a week or so ago when he said -- JOKINGLY -- that an American pool player can follow the tournament trail today and hope to make $20,000 per annum. Of course, the expenses will narrow that down to a small profit, if any.
Americans need to unite in pool and look out for their own. If they don't, soon all pool events will be held overseas. No more American pool pie to share with the international players. They will leave, too, and compete overseas in Asian-Pacific Islander countries where pool is considered a legitimate sport.
No more American players? No more American pool.
JAM
P.S. Just like rugby, cricket, and other sports are popular in other countries, pool is becoming more and more a game for bar bangers, social shooters, and league players in the States. Professional pool in America can only survive if there is some fresh meat in the lot of American pool players. We need to cultivate American players, not prohibit their opportunities to compete. And this includes the EXISTING American professional players.
Another great post. Couldn't agree more.
Jamison
Tennis, golf, baseball, basketball, and football do not need the bad boys. In fact it seems that such players hurt the game. Perhaps they have taken a lesson from pool
Now 15 ball rotation with no safeties could lead to some inspiring play. Seems that I see some better (more skilled) play on YouTube between pros in a no nothing match than on commercial TV. That says something about the game.
Now 15 ball rotation with no safeties could lead to some inspiring play. Seems that I see some better (more skilled) play on YouTube between pros in a no nothing match than on commercial TV. That says something about the game.
JoeW said:
I would agree with you if pool was an established sport in the United States and understood by mainstream America, but it ain't.
If you look at the history of pool in America, it was popular when the "bad boys" like Minnesota Fats were promoting it.
Mainstream American won't give two hoots to see 15-ball rotation with no safeties on TV. It would be boring to them. To the pool purists out there, they would love it, but unfortunately, they are in a very, very, very small minority of mainstream America.
Get pool on the front-page news with celebrity players like Minnesota Fats, Steve Mizerak, et al. This will draw more interest in pool from mainstream America than seeing a robotic player break and run out 15 balls in a row.
Once pool is established as a sport and mainstream America understands it, THEN and only then will robotic players draw some interest. However, to date, tournaments in America broadcast on TV aren't bringing in those sorely needed non-pool-related sponsor dollars.
It has been demonstrated already in the history of pool in America that pool movies and celebrity pool figures can help elevate the sport. The IPT's multi-million-dollar tournaments didn't seem to catch much interest in the American media with its international champions, proficient in the discipline of pocket billiards, competing for the big purse. If Minnesota Fats was there, it just might have been a whole different ball game.
JAM
This might draw more people to pool
JoeW said:
You kidding me? Some sports fans idolize people like Terrell Owens, Warren Sapp, Ray Lewis, and Ron Artest. Admittedly, they are the pure thugs in our country, but they are still there.
They create controversy, and publicity. Any publicity is good publicity, right?
Russ
What a novel idea.....
Yes Corvette1340, putting the players in swimsuits or underwear would probably draw more horny spectators
. This would most certainly raise the reputation of pool to a new high; but in YOUR opinion, what color speedo would you put Buddy Hall in? And would larger players have more material to put sponsors logos on? Is that an unfair advantage? 
Yes Corvette1340, putting the players in swimsuits or underwear would probably draw more horny spectators
. This would most certainly raise the reputation of pool to a new high; but in YOUR opinion, what color speedo would you put Buddy Hall in? And would larger players have more material to put sponsors logos on? Is that an unfair advantage? 
JoeW said:
Now we're gettin' on the right track. Take JoeW's idea and add it to TrackKing's idea of playing on 5'X10' tables and we might have something worth watching!!!
I agree that TrackKing's first post was as good a first post as you can have. Way to go TrackKing, and welcome to the site!!!
Maniac
In response to the OP's question...
A little o this.. A little o that..
Some transport large amounts of drugs across state borders...
You know... THAT old chestnut....
Russ
A little o this.. A little o that..
Some transport large amounts of drugs across state borders...
You know... THAT old chestnut....
Russ