How do the pro's support themselves

[poolcuemaster]

Your so right

I'm not sure why you say this????
He get's it tax free, which is the equivalent of $85,000 a year. That's a pretty good salary to live on.

I know your right cause I have lived very comfortably on less than 85 K a year for almost 50 years and some years a lot less. I don't think you buy the thing I would like to have--youth.--Leonard

and rep to you

 

[JimS]

Here's what "Machine Gun Lou" Butera said about the state of pool in America: You've got five companies doing over $10 million a year in this game. Yet, the amount they spend on the promotion of the game is peanuts, ridiculous. Now, if those companies can't put a quarter of a million of that into the promotion of the game, something is very wrong. There should be a Brunswick Open, an Ebonite Open, a Fisher Open, a National Open, just to name a few...all the big manufacturers should be promoting the game through tournaments.

This statement was made over 25 years ago. Players were struggling then, too. Those who were successful took their show on the road like Lou, Steve Mizerak, Willie Mosconi, and Minnesota Fats. I don't think any of them got rich from competing in pool tournaments.

JAM

Big business = no heart. They're doing fine without promoting the game so why bother? That seems to be the attitude of most... Diamond being an exception, and it's their "heart" that has made them big.

Off topic: JAM.. I suppose you've seen the pool photos at http://billporter.smugmug.com/

 

[poolmouse]

Since 90%-95% of the men pro's don't have sponsorships and since there's not enough money in tournament earnings to support very many players, I was wondering where the rest of these guys work or better yet, what they actually do for a living besides play pool. Not counting the full time gamblers.
The ones I know about are George Breedlove-construction, Truman Hogue-concrete worker, Troy Frank-welder, Tony Robles-pool instructor, Howard Vickery-electrician, Ed Kelly-casino dealer, Mike Davis-cook.
I wonder what guys like John Brumback, Ike Runnels, Reed Pierce, Louis DeMarco, Larry Price, Brian Gregg, etc do for a living. Anybody know of these or others?
Thanks.

ginky took on a job for a while as a doorman at an upper west side residential building. he asked his boss for time off to play in a tournament. his boss told him to decide if the tournament was as important as his job. he was soon out of a job. not sure if he ever worked again. he would be a fine manager at a company somewhere...a manager who can put in his 40-50 hours a week in and head to the poolroom, take time off to hit the regional tourneys, etc.

i'm a firm believer in holding down a job, saving money and eventually buying a home. anyone can do the first. some folks can do the second (depends on whether you gamble or not i guess). the third hinges on the first...banks won't lend to high risk people.

i ran over 100 when i was a teenager. i was in the army and had all the time in the world to play pool (for free at the recreation center). when i left the army, it wasn't long before i realized professional pool and making a living are mutually exclusive.

poolmouse

 

[Fatboy]

Here's what "Machine Gun Lou" Butera said about the state of pool in America: You've got five companies doing over $10 million a year in this game. Yet, the amount they spend on the promotion of the game is peanuts, ridiculous. Now, if those companies can't put a quarter of a million of that into the promotion of the game, something is very wrong. There should be a Brunswick Open, an Ebonite Open, a Fisher Open, a National Open, just to name a few...all the big manufacturers should be promoting the game through tournaments.

This statement was made over 25 years ago. Players were struggling then, too. Those who were successful took their show on the road like Lou, Steve Mizerak, Willie Mosconi, and Minnesota Fats. I don't think any of them got rich from competing in pool tournaments.

JAM

100% correct, i was out of the pool scene for the past 14 years, and when I came back and saw that 1st place is still $10,000 for a big tournment I knew something was bad, In 1985 when everything was half or less than it costs now 1st place was still 10K and it was still tough then now its nothing when you add in costs associated in getting to the tournment,

Online poker is a double edged sword, sure the Pro's who can play cards like Keith can, can do good with little effort, but every tournment Keith dosent go to hurts pool, i'm not picking on keith I would do what he is doing. but online activites whether its this board or poker is keeping people out of pool rooms. and online video games have kept the young crowd out of the pool rooms too, were in a different era and it dosent look bright for pool for a while.

 

[JAM]

100% correct, i was out of the pool scene for the past 14 years, and when I came back and saw that 1st place is still $10,000 for a big tournment I knew something was bad, In 1985 when everything was half or less than it costs now 1st place was still 10K and it was still tough then now its nothing when you add in costs associated in getting to the tournment,

Online poker is a double edged sword, sure the Pro's who can play cards like Keith can, can do good with little effort, but every tournment Keith dosent go to hurts pool, i'm not picking on keith I would do what he is doing. but online activites whether its this board or poker is keeping people out of pool rooms. and online video games have kept the young crowd out of the pool rooms too, were in a different era and it dosent look bright for pool for a while.

History sure repeats itself when it comes to American pool. If you read some of the comments in the pool newspapers from the '70s, they were experiencing the EXACT same problems as today.

In fact, ironically, there were several big tournaments and tours which didn't pay out the tournament monies at the conclusion of the events, very similar to what has happened in recent times with the IPT. It was worse, though, because the checks the players received actually bounced. One tournament advertised a large amount of monies, and when it came time to pay the players, the players received a check for a lesser amount than advertised.

Atari and somebody put on a huge event in the '80s. Jim Rempe won a car.

I think players of Keith's era have seen it all when it comes to organizations coming and going, not getting paid, et cetera. When the IPT came along, Keith and players from his ilk got excited when they saw the huge payouts, plus an opportunity to earn a decent living playing pool. Today, it's a little hard to pack up, go on the road, travel hundreds of miles, expend several thousand dollars, spent a week at a venue, and in order to break even, you gotta come in first, second, or third place.

I believe Keith will play pool again as he's still got a little fire left in his jug, but the current political climate is a difficult environment for some -- not all -- pool players. Truly, Lou Butera, Mosconi, Minnesota Fats, and Mizerak made money on pool, but it sure as heck wasn't as a professional pool contender.

The younger American players of today hopefully will enter a new era and earn a decent living competing professionally. I, for one, would love to see it happen. I just do not know how or what has to happen to effect this change. I was excited to see Shane Van Boening in the finals at the BCA Open. Though he didn't win it, I don't think we have seen the last of him quite yet. He will be a dominant force on the tournament trail up ahead, and I will be rooting for him all the way; that is, unless he's playing Keith, of course!

JAM

 

[Fatboy]

JAM, nice post. I would like to see more young players and an overall renewed interest in cue sports, then REAL sponsers will come around not ITP jive stuff, but corporate America where the $$$ would be there and the sponsers get good value for their investment in the game, think NASCAR, they have blown up in the last 20 years, from hayseeds to billion $$ industry because of real sponsership. but with the lack of young people playing its going to be a while-everything has its cycles and pool wont disappear-it will catch on in time.

 

[alstl]

I believe Irving Crane sold cars to support himself.

 

[Bugz]

I'm not sure why you say this????
He get's it tax free, which is the equivalent of $85,000 a year. That's a pretty good salary to live on.

I'm no math teacher, but 12 x 5000 = 60,000? right?

 

[Russ Chewning]

I'm no math teacher, but 12 x 5000 = 60,000? right?

How much you figure someone who makes $85000 a year pays in taxes? About $25000?? You did catch that he said "tax free", yes?

Russ

 

[!Smorgass Bored]

I'm Typing This NEKKID (how's THAT picture at lunchtime)

I think that U.J. Puckett sold truckloads of watermelon.
Doug
( or was it pumpkins )





.

 

[juegabillar]

.....never mind.....

 

[JAM]

Today, most pool players get 1099 forms when they receive monies, whether it be sponsorship monies or tournament winnings.

$60,000 back in Mizerak's era was decent, but I think that they made more monies by putting on the exhibitions. There were quite a few of them with Mosconi, Fats, and Mizerak. Allen Hopkins was in there, too.

Minnesota Fats knew how to make money: Using the name "Minnesota Fats", he gained enough attention to star in a TV show in which he would play against Willie Mosconi. Mosconi beat Minnesota Fats in the games. For a few years, there were rematches on TV with Wanderone and Mosconi in which Mosconi beat Wanderone without much trouble. These proved to be popular with television audiences and may also have contributed to his fame.

Wanderone, with his hustler persona, enjoyed promoting the so-called "feud" with the reserved Willie Mosconi. He would publicly state, "I may have 'given away' a few games to deserving competitiors, but I have never lost a real money game since I was old enough to spell 'Weeli Mesconi,'" ribbing Mosconi in jest.

The flamboyant Wanderone once toured the country in a candied-apricot-over-carmel-plum Lincoln limo and had little trouble with identity recognition. His name, "Minnesota Fats, King of Pool", on the side panels was done in transluscent paint which changed colors with reflections from the sun as it moved. In 1980, Wanderone had to double his order of autographed pictures after he was stopped 37 times in a one-mile stretch while visiting St. Louis.

I'm getting to really love Minnesota Fats, the more and more I read about him. He utilized his hustler personality to attract the masses. My favorite Minnesota Fats quote is: Boys, the only difference between me and everybody else is that everybody else drives around in a Volkswagen, and Minnesota Fats drives around in a Duesenberg.

He must have really enjoyed driving around in those flashy cars!

JAM

 

[gulfportdoc]

I wonder what guys like John Brumback, Ike Runnels, Reed Pierce, Louis DeMarco, Larry Price, Brian Gregg, etc do for a living. Anybody know of these or others?

I believe Brumback is a farmer/rancher in Kentucky. Pierce and his brother own a restaruant-with-pool-tables near Jackson, Miss. Scotty Townsend jumps off bridges for money all over the Southeast...

Doc

 

[gulfportdoc]

The four pool players who read for the parts that Mizerak is referring to were, of course, Mizerak, and Ray Martin, Peter Margo, and Allen Hopkins. Just another interesting little American pool factoid!

JAM

I never knew that, Jennie. Come to think of it, they each would have been excellent for that part. I wonder if, owing to the then current interest in Minn. Fats, that they preferred an overweight pool player, thereby giving points to Mizerak?

Doc

 

[Bob Jewett]

I'm not sure why you say this????
He gets it tax free, which is the equivalent of $85,000 a year. That's a pretty good salary to live on.

I think I could get by pretty well on $5000/month after taxes, but a small nit: while he might not pay taxes on the money, unless there is some kind of very special arrangement, I think that is taxable income.

 

[Russ Chewning]

I think that U.J. Puckett sold truckloads of watermelon.
Doug
( or was it pumpkins )





.

You might be mixing him up with Titanic Thompson. He once stopped a watermelon farmer and paid him a fee to unload his watermelons, counting them, and then reload them and drive past the pool hall the next day.

Titanic innocently boasted he was the best at those games where you count the number of golf balls in a jar, etc..

"Why, gentlemen.. I'll bet any amount you want I can guess the amount of watermelons in that thar truck coming up the road to within 10 watermelons!"

And the rest is hustling history...

Russ

P.S. Titanic also dug up a city limit sign in a small town and then bet a local businessman he knew better than him how far the city limits were from their location...

 

[rackem]

There is always Pots and Pans. Right Jay.

 

[Snapshot9]

Lol

Surely you heard that 'A Poolplayer without a girlfriend or wife is a Poolplayer without a home'! .... LOL

Most Billiard rooms can not afford to pay much, and they don't, so being a house pro, or even managing one only reaps minimal monetary rewards.
And giving lessons is sporadic unless you become a full time instructor, and work at it. Even the ones that open their own rooms might do okay, but they sure don't get rich.

A player that loves the sport usually has to combine 5-6 different activities in Pool to survive monetarily, then at times, some of activities slow up, which puts them in a bind, especially if they need gambling money to bet with.

It is a hard life, and one that draws more anxiety as the player ages past his prime and perhaps ignoring the normal things such as medical checkups, dental care, and eye care for years and years. They can't afford those things because they need the money to enter that tournament or to bet with.

The semi-pro is always faced with a delimma between working for a living, and the dream of being good enough to go pro. Most have to come to the conclusion that working is best for them, and having to face that they will never be as good as they could have been.

Pool has never been an easy answer, but it is easy money sometimes.

 

[Slider]

think NASCAR, they have blown up in the last 20 years, from hayseeds to billion $$ industry because of real sponsership.

The sad irony of this is that while the general viewing audiences apparently find something as endlessly fascinating as pool boring, NASCAR boils down to watching a lot of fast cars drive around in circles. Don't get me wrong, I grew up with an overdeveloped fondness for the internal combustion engine, and I enjoy a wide variety of automotive competition, but NASCAR puts me to sleep. In one respect, it's a lot like playing pool—fascinating to do, but not so much fun to watch.

I think I understand the attraction though. Everyone drives a car, almost every day, and (unfortunately)a good number of them fancy themselves to be competitive drivers, judging from the extreme tailgating and lane-changing on the freeways. NASCAR also provides big events for people to attend, which is probably more entertaining than the race itself.

Ken

 

[gulfportdoc]

but online activites whether its this board or poker is keeping people out of pool rooms. and online video games have kept the young crowd out of the pool rooms too, were in a different era and it dosent look bright for pool for a while.

What I miss is the poolroom being the center of action, games-making, camaraderie, and pool gossip. Nowadays much of the pool gossip is online, except for distinctly local news. The games-making and the action has been lost significantly to casinos, online gambling, lotteries, etc. Here on the Dixie Riviera, casino gambling has reduced gambling on pool to a very slow crawl. When men don't get together to compete with one another, then excellence in pool diminishes.

However the pool industry in general hasn't seemed to suffer. Most of the rooms now are aimed at young couples or groups who will rent the table for 1 or 2 hours, drink an imported beer or designer cocktail, and go home. And business seems to be booming, along with the juke boxes. The poolroom competes very successfully with the dance halls or clubs. Unfortuanately the music is usually too loud to have a conversation; so discourse or gambling action must be practiced elsewhere.

Doc