How do you counteract this safety move?

Dan White

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was playing a guy the other day who would run most of the rack, and then play safe on the break ball. He would pocket the break ball and leave the cue ball near frozen on the head rail. He did this about three racks in a row and it occurred to me their might be a better defense against this than what I did. I thought of going two rails and parking the cue ball behind the pack, taking a foul, to hopefully prevent him from sending me back up table again (but didn't do that at the time). Aside from the "two rails in the corner and skim off the pack" back to the head rail (which isn't in my repetoire), what can a guy do?
 
Dan White said:
I was playing a guy the other day who would run most of the rack, and then play safe on the break ball. He would pocket the break ball and leave the cue ball near frozen on the head rail. He did this about three racks in a row and it occurred to me their might be a better defense against this than what I did. I thought of going two rails and parking the cue ball behind the pack, taking a foul, to hopefully prevent him from sending me back up table again (but didn't do that at the time). Aside from the "two rails in the corner and skim off the pack" back to the head rail (which isn't in my repetoire), what can a guy do?
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Back when people used to play safeties, the standard play from the middle of the end rail was to play side rail, foot rail, knock a few out but leave the cue ball stuck to the back of the rack. Few played the two-rail skimmer -- those who did included Irving Crane and Ed Kelly.

I think the skimmer is worth practicing. It varies from table to table and you need to find which side spin works from various locations. I've made it work from the center spot, but it doesn't want to.
 
If you can't play the "Irving Crane safety" - and you're not alone if you can't, in fact, FEW can - what I would do is take a scratch 2 rails into the back of the pile, making sure I disturbed a few balls in the process. That way he won't be so quick to just send you back down table again as there may be a ball open or a dead one. You are playing out of his safeties and need to turn the tide so that he is playing out of yours.
 
Some day I hope to be good enough to play safe. So far, it seems all I do is shoot balls in until I miss an open shot.
 
Winston846 said:
If you can't play the "Irving Crane safety" - and you're not alone if you can't, in fact, FEW can - what I would do is take a scratch 2 rails into the back of the pile, making sure I disturbed a few balls in the process. That way he won't be so quick to just send you back down table again as there may be a ball open or a dead one. You are playing out of his safeties and need to turn the tide so that he is playing out of yours.
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It will be interesting to see what the OP reports back after trying this. It sounds to me like his opponent is willing to take his chances that the OP's safety attempt will result in leaving him with an open shot. And if not, it sounds like this guy, having the OP on one, will be willing to trade fouls and force the issue.
 
DogsPlayingPool said:
It will be interesting to see what the OP reports back after trying this. It sounds to me like his opponent is willing to take his chances that the OP's safety attempt will result in leaving him with an open shot. And if not, it sounds like this guy, having the OP on one, will be willing to trade fouls and force the issue.
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But at that point, at least the cue ball would be in the back of the stack and not down against the head rail, which would present more options for playing a safety. The point of disturbing a few balls was to try to prevent his opponent from just fouling him right back to the head rail. No matter what, the OP is going to be locked in a safety battle here, but at least he can put himself in a position to come out on top, even if it costs him a couple scratches.
 
I might roll right up on the head ball very softly taking a scratch. If I were off to one side or the other enough, I'd roll to the bottom rail and then bump behind the rack softly still taking a scratch.
 
Winston846 said:
But at that point, at least the cue ball would be in the back of the stack and not down against the head rail, which would present more options for playing a safety. The point of disturbing a few balls was to try to prevent his opponent from just fouling him right back to the head rail. No matter what, the OP is going to be locked in a safety battle here, but at least he can put himself in a position to come out on top, even if it costs him a couple scratches.
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Agreed. The OP just needs to consider is that one very likely scenario if he pulls of the "two rail stick to the back of the stack" foul is that the opponent may take the intentional, leaving him with essentially the same situation he left his opponent faced with - stuck to the back of the stack with some loose balls. At some point he will need to come up with some plan since he is on one foul first. Just saying, he shouldn't be surprised if his opponent does this. :wink:
 
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What Winston said. Standard play.

You can try skimming the rack ONCE if you think you are Irving Crane, but the second time, just lag/kick softly into the back of the stack. You are NOT trying to kick hard enough to get something to a rail (you will OFTEN sell out if you try it at that speed), only trying to put a couple of "threat balls" near the stack so your opponent can't send you back up to the head rail without leaving you a good shot.

Yes, you will be on 1 or 2 fouls; but it is the only proper way to play.

I saw 2 VERY prominent pro 9 ball players LOSE a match because they didn't know this simple principle (tried an "opening break" type of shot and sold out the match). You JUST KICK SOFTLY INTO THE BACK OF THE STACK JACK. A couple of fouls is nothing in the long run.
 
I've been working on a behind the rack defensive break.

The situation requires having a clean shot kicking to the back of the rack.

If the angle is tight enough you can freeze the cueball to the back rack, get a nice spread on the front of the rack and leave the opponent with limited safe returns.

a follow shot works best for me, I can repeatedly get the break in front of the rack and freeze the cue to parts of back rack.

Depending on the english applied and force hit the back of the rack remains relatively in place or frozen solid.

The skimmer shot requires a duration of safe play, the back rack break safe forces the opponent to be aggressively offensive when it the risks are high. The cost is playing it just right to not leave a shot. If it works chances are good for a runout.
 
justnum said:
I've been working on a behind the rack defensive break.

The situation requires having a clean shot kicking to the back of the rack.

If the angle is tight enough you can freeze the cueball to the back rack, get a nice spread on the front of the rack and leave the opponent with limited safe returns.

a follow shot works best for me, I can repeatedly get the break in front of the rack and freeze the cue to parts of back rack.

Depending on the english applied and force hit the back of the rack remains relatively in place or frozen solid.

The skimmer shot requires a duration of safe play, the back rack break safe forces the opponent to be aggressively offensive when it the risks are high. The cost is playing it just right to not leave a shot. If it works chances are good for a runout.
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Justnum,
To quote 2 old road players, "you only try for a "good spread" on this safety when you are mad at your backer." It is a GREAT way to sell out. The object is to softly bump a couple of balls away from the pack. In fact, your first attempt can be very soft; if you fail to disturb the rack adequately, your opponent sends you back upstream, but you just try again with your second foul.

Sell outs with even slightly forceful kicks are quite common (without a perfect hit on a rear ball, the cue ball will OFTEN leak over into a place where your opponent has a shot), probably a 30% item. "Win" the rack with your safety play AFTER you gently dislodge a couple of balls. Just passing it on, these gents have 100 years on the road between them, and forgot more about straight pool than I will ever know.
 
Williebetmore said:
Justnum,
Sell outs with even slightly forceful kicks are quite common (without a perfect hit on a rear ball, the cue ball will OFTEN leak over into a place where your opponent has a shot), probably a 30% item. "Win" the rack with your safety play AFTER you gently dislodge a couple of balls. Just passing it on, these gents have 100 years on the road between them, and forgot more about straight pool than I will ever know.
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Are you talking specifically about this situation where I'm stuck on the head rail, or back of the rack safeties in general? If I have a good angle, I will kick off the foot rail with some hold up english to get the cue ball going straighter to the back of the pack. I can hit pretty firm and most always get a good result. I was surprised at your 30% figure, and figure you might be talking about the special case of a 2 rail kick from the center of the head rail.
 
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