How far from center do you hit the CB?

M

mantis99

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was just watching a Bert Kinister video and he says on there that he never plays more than a tip of english, and usually doesn't need that much. We're talking about the guy who hits corner to corner draw shots with ease. He obviously has a much better stroke than me, but I usually need a solid 2 tips of english to accomplish the shots he hits on the tape.

That brought me to wonder, how much english does the average decent player use to move the CB around the table?
 
The old guy who pretty much taught me how to play always advocated no more than one tip...he said picture a circle the size of a nickel on the center of the cue ball and keep your tip in there, you'll never need more. He said the closer to true center ball hit, the more consistent and accurate. There's a lot of truth to that, but it doesn't always feed the bulldog.

I'd say 90% of the time I keep it within a tip's worth, but obviously I need a little more to really pull off spin shots or something squirrelly to get through/around something. It seems a lot of guys feel free to poke at the miscue limit most of the time, doing a lot more than needed (maybe a symptom of the preponderance of LD shafts out there?)...kind of like the guys who drill the ball all the time, shooting way harder than needed, but muscling the cue ball everywhere.
 
I remember Mike Sigel told me that he NEVER uses more than a 1/2 tip of English on any shot. However, as I watched the action he was getting, I'd have to come to the conclusion that many of us don't exactly know just how much juice we're putting on the CB when in relation to where we strike the CB simply because I would be willing to bet that there aren't many of us (even world class players) that are actually hitting the CB exactly where we think we are.
Additionally, although I agree that the more English you put on the ball, the more you will sacrifice accuracy. However, I've always believed that some situations come up in the game of pool where the player that CAN juice the ball more, and still be accurate..............will have the advantage.

dave
 
I try to use either 3mm (one tip) or 6mm of spin. Any thing more is just showing off.
randyg
 
I use extreme English at times. I would say that a lot of the time I only have half the tip on the cue ball. Maybe less. And yes I do miscue now and then.
 
I watched the video and was surprised when he said he never goes more than a tip from center. I'm sorry, but it's not possible to draw the cb long distances this way.
 
Mitchxout said:
I watched the video and was surprised when he said he never goes more than a tip from center. I'm sorry, but it's not possible to draw the cb long distances this way.
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You are right-but.................................
I aim about a tip below the center the on the delivery stroke I compress the bridge hand down slightly and raise my back hand slightly. So if someone watches and does not pay real close attention it would appear that I draw the cue ball with a hit of just below center. I can hit 8 footers and draw back to the rail with not a lot of force.
I'm a tricky old guy :thumbup:
 
I use to play with minimal English for years then two different Asian players, one a world champion showed me a slough of finesse shots that require max English.

Now I can get shape easier and I dont miscue much cause it's a finesse shot at softer speeds.
 
mantis99 said:
I was just watching a Bert Kinister video and he says on there that he never plays more than a tip of english, and usually doesn't need that much. We're talking about the guy who hits corner to corner draw shots with ease. He obviously has a much better stroke than me, but I usually need a solid 2 tips of english to accomplish the shots he hits on the tape.

That brought me to wonder, how much english does the average decent player use to move the CB around the table?
Click to expand...
I think you can be pretty sure he is hitting about where you do to get the same action. On his 6-pointed-star tape he has one shot where he gets a particular angle which you can't get with one tip, depending on how you measure a tip. The shot requires near max side spin.

The best players know how to hit near the miscue limit when they need to, and there are times when they need to.
 
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There are some shots that require you to go pretty far outside on the cue ball, but probably 95 percent of shots don't require more than a tip. I wouldn't advocate never using more than a tip, but I would advocate never using more than a tip unless you are sure you need it.
 
how much english does the average decent player use to move the CB around the table
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I don't know if I am average or decent...but I used to play a good game. In general I used as much or as little as needed and that meant as little as possible to get where I wanted to go.

How much English one uses and how far off the center of the ball one strikes are two different matters IMHO. A player with a good stroke and a proper cue/tip can get plenty of English/draw/follow without moving as far off center as one might think.

The guy that I originally learned my English from was amazing. He shot with a two point Meucci Original. This guy could put so much on a ball while looking like he wasn't....it looked so easy....so smooth...so effortless....his only problem was that he used it all the time, never knew when to turn it off. He loved the reactions it got when that CB went wild for him. But that's what it was. Wild. I learned a lot from him. In fact it was not long after meeting him that I started really winning, my game kicked up to a new level real fast. He showed me how to move the ball with little drama but dramatic results....but I learned by watching him that the most important thing was not using it or using it as little as possible to get the result you wanted.


Basically, it ends up being like others said above...not more than a tip.....
 
dave...I know just what you mean. Jack White used to tell me he NEVER hit more than a tip off center, yet got AMAZING spin on the CB. Years later, while I was training with him, to take over his tour, I got my camera and zoomed in on the CB, while he was down on the shot. He was way off center. I then showed him the video, and guess what he said..."Well I'll be 'bleep'...I would have swore I was never more than a tip off." Just goes to show ya, lots of us really don't know where we're really hitting the CB.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Tokyo-dave said:
I remember Mike Sigel told me that he NEVER uses more than a 1/2 tip of English on any shot. However, as I watched the action he was getting, I'd have to come to the conclusion that many of us don't exactly know just how much juice we're putting on the CB when in relation to where we strike the CB simply because I would be willing to bet that there aren't many of us (even world class players) that are actually hitting the CB exactly where we think we are.
Additionally, although I agree that the more English you put on the ball, the more you will sacrifice accuracy. However, I've always believed that some situations come up in the game of pool where the player that CAN juice the ball more, and still be accurate..............will have the advantage.

dave
Click to expand...
 
Like Scott said, I think quite a few people "think" they do something and really do something else, or line up one way and move into a different position on the cue ball. Sort of the reverse of a typical issue I see with some people I've helped who couldn't draw the ball well, they line up low but raise up on the final stroke, then wonder why the ball didn't draw when they were hitting low as instructed. The chalk mark doesn't lie... :)

Most of the time, I think people are able to run out racks without using much spin. Seems these days most players would rather play safe then take a flyer on a shot, which is the smarter approach to trying to win the game and stay at the table.

As an excessive spinner myself, and someone who has a pretty good stroke, I'm relearning to play the game differently then I used to. I used to just try and get close to the next shot and rely on my stroke to get me to the next ball. After really studying a bunch of matches again, and watching how simple most of the pros are making things on themselves, I decided to simplify things myself and boost my consistency. While I can still pull out the crazy shots as needed, I'm re-learning that I can move the cue ball around the table in a more efficient way than the way I did for years, which not only improves my overall consistency but also keep things at a more consistent level week to week, since all of that spin requires more practice time and for you to be "on" for it all to flow properly.

Paying more attention to my routes and zones, I can achieve better angles and make use of more pure vertical center hits (center, draw, follow), which allows me to pocket the ball more consistently since I'm not worrying about compensating for throw, curve, deflection, etc. Using 1/4 tip of english, just a bit really, to alter the path when it is necessary instead of just automatically throwing 1+ tips on it, again eliminates a lot of variables and boosts the consistency. And then working with my english and new shaft and learning how to adjust for various distances, speeds, and amounts of spin so that when I do need to spin the ball it feels just like hitting center ball.

Scott
 
I hit as far off center as required by the shot. Those who say "I always hit no more than 1 tip" on any and all shots are mistaken. There are quite a few shots where 1 tip won't get you there.
 
I generally stay with 1 tip of center, but depending upon situations, I'll go as far as 2 tips from center, but not really too much more than 1 1/2 tips is ever needed. Your tip on your cue also limits what you can do.
 
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