How late of an age can you start pool and ascend to short-stop or pro level?

[ShootingArts]

hung a little bait our there!

wait, you've been playing pool for 2 months AND all of the sudden you're turning pro? whats going on here?? oooh, you've been playing snooker for most of your adult life. thank god

I think Lee hung a little bait out there! To a certain extent a cueist is a cueist regardless of what you are playing. A lot of the knowledge and sound fundamentals carry over. I suspect that Lee will have more trouble with one-pocket than any other game. Dozens and dozens of moves to learn and many you never see in a book or think about until they are used on you.

Aside from being a professional coach, I read over Lee's own accomplishments on the table. Only an elite few ever run one 147, Lee has ran ten I believe. That is like an accu-stats score of 1000. I expect Lee to be very strong at the local and regional level. How he will perform when there is a strong field of the best of the best is of interest to me. I feel pretty comfortable saying he can get into the top twenty in the US, the top five or six that nobody is surprised if they win anything they enter, that I honestly am not sure of one way or the other. I surely wouldn't say it was impossible but I also don't know if it will happen. I will be watching closely and wishing him the best. He seems like a great guy with a love of the game.

The British invasion did a lot for Rock'n'Roll. Maybe it can do as much for pool!

Hu

 

[alstl]

I'm just a banger, lucky to get to 100 in a set of equal offense most of the time. I played when I was and kid and then quit until I retired and bought a table and took up the game again. The biggest difference between now and when I was a kid is first I have more things going on in my life now that cut into my pool playing time and secondly after 2 1/2 or 3 hours on my feet I'm ready to put the cue in the case and sit down whereas when I was a kid I would play until I had to quit.

 

[measureman]

If you want to move up in pool practice alone will not do it. You have to get some instruction. You do not know something until someones points it out. Case in point. Last night i played a freindly game for the first time with a c player. He tried to move the cue ball on a tough position shot where the cue ball and object ball were only inches apart and had no clue on how. So i showed him that you have to elevate the cue and sort of masse the cue ball to hit the rail and reverse direction. Now the exact shot is not important here ,the point being he could practice forever and not know that shot.
So instead of spending dollars and hours shooting the same shots over and over (which in it self is not bad) get a much better player to show you some things. If i am asked to school somebody i usualy do it and all the better if they throw a $20 on the table and ask for a 1/2 hour or so.
You have to be taught the things that you do not know exist.

 

[scttybee]

lotsa opinions out there-depends whats inside the heart and mind

that being said i assume jude will give me the 8 ball?

 

[Williebetmore]

fitting response, coming from an instructor. Because in all honesty, where would you get most of your business if it weren't for older guys with jobs?

D-man,
I rarely have time to respond on the forum (spending my time learning to play pool at the age of 56); but your post is very inappropriate.

To suggest that Scott's argument is invalidated by his profession is ludicrous. Get to the meat of the discussion. If you believe that no older person with a day job can take up the game late and learn to play pool at a low professional level, you are dead wrong. Tell us all why the simple motion of a pool swing is beyond the reach of an older person.

If there were more instructors like Scott, then more of the interested, older, casual players would come to realize that the high level precision necessary for pro level pool IS attainable in a couple of hours a day, IF they approach it the proper way, and have the dedication to spend the necessary years of development.

The attitude that pool proficiency depends on some "natural genetic gift" is a poor one, used by players as an excuse when they don't progress despite respectable effort. It is an attitude that has caused great harm to the popularity of the sport (surely more people have quit from lack of progress than any other cause). If they practiced the proper way (with an eye to building a stroke that is mechanically simple, repeatable, and pressure-resistant) there is no reason that a player of any age can't become highly proficient (......well....as long as they have an instructor like Scott).

I have personal knowledge of 2 paraplegics who play pool well above the gifted amateur level. Perhaps you can tell me what physical skills or natural ability they have that the average 50 year old lacks.

P.S. - I am not a student of Scott Lee's; but respect immensely the efforts of dedicated professional instructors to bring this game out of the dark ages. If there were a hundred more like him, pool would be the richer. JMO (errrrr...just a fact Jack...).

 

[JennBarretta]

I started playing in June of 1998, and Jude quickly recruited me for his APA team, "Mars Attacks!" the same year. I started playing at age 29 (I'm now 40). I think people who start young have an advantage of learning to play without fear, but I don't think age limits how good you can get.

 

[QueenB]

I started playing in June of 1998, and Jude quickly recruited me for his APA team, "Mars Attacks!" the same year. I started playing at age 29 (I'm now 40). I think people who start young have an advantage of learning to play without fear, but I don't think age limits how good you can get.

You are a great example of someone who started late and made it to the professional level and in a short amount of time too. Very inspirational to me and my team mates

 

[jayz]

I took up pool seriously at age 18, and after three years of OBSESSION, I was a Shortstop. By obsession, I mean literally playing pool every waking hour all day and all night. I probably averaged 10-12 hours a day on the table back then. I played quite a few sessions that lasted 16-24 hours (yes for money). Those are the ones that really accelerated my learning curve.

Hmmm...Did you mean a short, shortstop??

 

[jayz]

D-man,
I rarely have time to respond on the forum (spending my time learning to play pool at the age of 56); but your post is very inappropriate.

To suggest that Scott's argument is invalidated by his profession is ludicrous. Get to the meat of the discussion. If you believe that no older person with a day job can take up the game late and learn to play pool at a low professional level, you are dead wrong. Tell us all why the simple motion of a pool swing is beyond the reach of an older person.

The attitude that pool proficiency depends on some "natural genetic gift" is a poor one, used by players as an excuse when they don't progress despite respectable effort. It is an attitude that has caused great harm to the popularity of the sport (surely more people have quit from lack of progress than any other cause). If they practiced the proper way (with an eye to building a stroke that is mechanically simple, repeatable, and pressure-resistant) there is no reason that a player of any age can't become highly proficient (......well....as long as they have an instructor like Scott).

P.S. - I am not a student of Scott Lee's; but respect immensely the efforts of dedicated professional instructors to bring this game out of the dark ages. If there were a hundred more like him, pool would be the richer. JMO (errrrr...just a fact Jack...).

Using your simplistic explanation of the pool stroke, why can't anyone become a professional bowler with the simple motion of rolling a ball?!!

If you've been playing pool or bowling or any game of skill, you come to the realization that in all games there is that "dog factor" that limits many of us in achieving higher levels of proficiency. I have watched players in practice "never miss a ball". And yet, when challenged to a match, especially for money, simply choke.

Like a road partner once told me when I was a young'un, "Running out is easy. The hard part is running out when your opponent keeps running out". The bottom line is this: All players choke. Watch a big match when it gets to "hill-hill". You'll see the top players in the world having a problem running out.

In the early 70's, I was fortunate to have an opportunity to spend five weeks on the road throughout the state of Florida with a top player from Hawaii. He won everytime he played, almost everyday, with some all night sessions. After hours of play, his opponent would finally miss a ball. And then another. And hours later you would see a shell of the player that started the match. My player had the stronger mental will.

Again, all players choke. The difference is, some choke less than others. That is the "natural genetic gift".

 

[driz86]

D-man,
I rarely have time to respond on the forum (spending my time learning to play pool at the age of 56); but your post is very inappropriate.

To suggest that Scott's argument is invalidated by his profession is ludicrous. Get to the meat of the discussion. If you believe that no older person with a day job can take up the game late and learn to play pool at a low professional level, you are dead wrong. Tell us all why the simple motion of a pool swing is beyond the reach of an older person.

If there were more instructors like Scott, then more of the interested, older, casual players would come to realize that the high level precision necessary for pro level pool IS attainable in a couple of hours a day, IF they approach it the proper way, and have the dedication to spend the necessary years of development.

The attitude that pool proficiency depends on some "natural genetic gift" is a poor one, used by players as an excuse when they don't progress despite respectable effort. It is an attitude that has caused great harm to the popularity of the sport (surely more people have quit from lack of progress than any other cause). If they practiced the proper way (with an eye to building a stroke that is mechanically simple, repeatable, and pressure-resistant) there is no reason that a player of any age can't become highly proficient (......well....as long as they have an instructor like Scott).

I have personal knowledge of 2 paraplegics who play pool well above the gifted amateur level. Perhaps you can tell me what physical skills or natural ability they have that the average 50 year old lacks.

P.S. - I am not a student of Scott Lee's; but respect immensely the efforts of dedicated professional instructors to bring this game out of the dark ages. If there were a hundred more like him, pool would be the richer. JMO (errrrr...just a fact Jack...).

I just want to clear some things up...

First,
you assumed that his answer was invalidated by his profession. Take responsibility for doing that, I merely pointed out the irony. I think that's pretty simple.

I don't believe the "simple" motion of a pool stroke is beyond the reach of an older person. But I do believe that picking it up old, then playing top level pool IS.
Oh btw, where are these older, casual players at? you know, the ones that got to the top practicing a couple hours a day the proper way. They must have their own exclusive tour somewhere in Florida.

I know a paraplegic and a kid with cerebral palsy who both play pretty good. And to be honest, I can play pretty decent sitting down in a chair myself. You know why? because I'm 23 and have good eyes. Besides, anyone who's played knows that not only do the eyes go in old age, but the nerves as well. Bad example imo.


anyhow, thanks for the reply and hey even if you didn't have the best arguments, at least you didn't resort to leaving negative feedback (or whatever) on my profile, or name calling like some of the man-children on here apparently like to do.

-Devin

ps
I also think it's ironic that anyone on here who has so far contradicted what I said are either instructors or on the older side themselves. What do the player players have to say about it? Oh and I'm a little skeptical about an instructor from MI of all places. Last I heard Michigan was weak for pool. Besides Kirkwood and Adam Smith (who's really from Canada anyway) who plays there?

 

[Scott Lee]

devin...It's obvious that you base your opinion on instructors on who can play the best (not to mention where they live...LMAO). That attitude is outdated, at best, and ludicrous at worst. Let's see, I've also lived in Illinois (lots of strong players), Colorado (lots of strong players), and Montana (some strong players). You're welcome to your opinion, but that doesn't mean you're correct, let alone on target. It's a well-known fact that the better teachers and coaches, in any sport, have generally not been the best competitors. The truth is that age is no barrier to becoming a great pool player. You can accept that fact, or dispute it...your choice.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

ps
I also think it's ironic that anyone on here who has so far contradicted what I said are either instructors or on the older side themselves. What do the player players have to say about it? Oh and I'm a little skeptical about an instructor from MI of all places. Last I heard Michigan was weak for pool. Besides Kirkwood and Adam Smith (who's really from Canada anyway) who plays there?

 

[Neil]

Last I heard Michigan was weak for pool. Besides Kirkwood and Adam Smith (who's really from Canada anyway) who plays there?

Apparently, the only ones you know about are the road players. There are a number of great players here that never go anywhere else. They don't need to , or don't desire to due to having jobs.

 

[paksat]

I think a player willing to do the intangibles is the one that sets himself apart from the pack.

At that level, all the little things become BIG things. Being a tad bit better at just a few of them makes you head and shoulders better come crunch time.

 

["T"]

driz86...That is a bunch of baloney. There are people out there who have started playing after age 40, and become 'pro-level' in only a few years. With the right training, coaching, competition, there is no age barrier to becoming a great player.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Agreed! lol

I also think that learning to play pool well later in life has a lot to do with prior success in other disciplines like sports or even music. The greatest gift in learning music starting at seven years old was that it taught me to look at things I couldn't do only in terms of how and what I needed to practice to be able to do them.

Also that you save a hell of a lot of time working with a teacher.

 

[john schmidt]

not exactly

devin...It's obvious that you base your opinion on instructors on who can play the best (not to mention where they live...LMAO). That attitude is outdated, at best, and ludicrous at worst. Let's see, I've also lived in Illinois (lots of strong players), Colorado (lots of strong players), and Montana (some strong players). You're welcome to your opinion, but that doesn't mean you're correct, let alone on target. It's a well-known fact that the better teachers and coaches, in any sport, have generally not been the best competitors. The truth is that age is no barrier to becoming a great pool player. You can accept that fact, or dispute it...your choice.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

guys like scott can teach the basics no doubt and do a great job.
thing is pool is about 50 percent decisions and 50 percent execution.

you absolutely should rate a pool coach on his ability because that shows how much knowledge they have for all aspects of the game.14.1,9ball,1hole etc.

if you think scott lee or any other non world class player coach could show you the same stuff and decision making as say mika ,archer,or myself i beg to differ.


another thing theres a reason pro basketball teams hire ex pro players to coach the team.its because the ex pro player knows what hes talking about from experience.

then theres the golf coaches and everybody says yeah but they cant play on tour.


believe me many of the swing coaches on the golf tour are ex pro playes or extremely good players.they could just about play on tour.hank haney,butch harmon etc.


all these guys that teach pool and claim i would have played pro pool but theres no money in it,instead i teach.lol its because they only play decent and have no other choice.

believe me ask johnny archer if he would rather be him or a pool instuctor lol.
in closing guys like scott lee are good for pool and teaching beginners.

but if anybody thinks that he could teach somebody as much as say allen hopkins over a weeks time then they have never taken a lesson for a week from both guys.
also no you cannot take up pool at like 40 and in a couple of years play pro pool.has never happened yet the game is to hard.you can become a great player but good enough to play pro i dont think so,not even with scott lees help.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

I started playing in June of 1998, and Jude quickly recruited me for his APA team, "Mars Attacks!" the same year. I started playing at age 29 (I'm now 40). I think people who start young have an advantage of learning to play without fear, but I don't think age limits how good you can get.

God, where did the time go?

 

[driz86]

guys like scott can teach the basics no doubt and do a great job.
thing is pool is about 50 percent decisions and 50 percent execution.

you absolutely should rate a pool coach on his ability because that shows how much knowledge they have for all aspects of the game.14.1,9ball,1hole etc.

if you think scott lee or any other non world class player coach could show you the same stuff and decision making as say mika ,archer,or myself i beg to differ.
...

all these guys that teach pool and claim i would have played pro pool but theres no money in it,instead i teach.lol its because they only play decent and have no other choice.

believe me ask johnny archer if he would rather be him or a pool instuctor lol.
in closing guys like scott lee are good for pool and teaching beginners.

but if anybody thinks that he could teach somebody as much as say allen hopkins over a weeks time then they have never taken a lesson for a week from both guys.
also no you cannot take up pool at like 40 and in a couple of years play pro pool.has never happened yet the game is to hard.you can become a great player but good enough to play pro i dont think so,not even with scott lees help.

thaank you john schmidt. just wanted a player's point of view

 

[Matt_24]

guys like scott can teach the basics no doubt and do a great job.
thing is pool is about 50 percent decisions and 50 percent execution.

you absolutely should rate a pool coach on his ability because that shows how much knowledge they have for all aspects of the game.14.1,9ball,1hole etc.

if you think scott lee or any other non world class player coach could show you the same stuff and decision making as say mika ,archer,or myself i beg to differ.


another thing theres a reason pro basketball teams hire ex pro players to coach the team.its because the ex pro player knows what hes talking about from experience.

then theres the golf coaches and everybody says yeah but they cant play on tour.


believe me many of the swing coaches on the golf tour are ex pro playes or extremely good players.they could just about play on tour.hank haney,butch harmon etc.


all these guys that teach pool and claim i would have played pro pool but theres no money in it,instead i teach.lol its because they only play decent and have no other choice.

believe me ask johnny archer if he would rather be him or a pool instuctor lol.
in closing guys like scott lee are good for pool and teaching beginners.

but if anybody thinks that he could teach somebody as much as say allen hopkins over a weeks time then they have never taken a lesson for a week from both guys.
also no you cannot take up pool at like 40 and in a couple of years play pro pool.has never happened yet the game is to hard.you can become a great player but good enough to play pro i dont think so,not even with scott lees help.

John makes a great point.

The first time I took a lesson I had already been playing for 9 years (including playing local tournaments - and winning some - and gambling). There were somethings I wasn't doing consistently and couldn't quite figure out why. There were some locals who gave lessons but I felt like if I could be a threat to beat them what could they teach me? Just my thoughts. I took my first lesson from Max Eberle who is a great player. We worked for two hours and the only thing he felt he needed to show me was something I was doing wrong with my stance and how to ensure I was getting in line properly on each shot which made a ton of difference.

The second lesson I took was from Jimmy Reid several years ago at his house in TN (when he lived there). That was probably 3 hours long or more and I learned a ton. Jimmy even video taped a portion of it which I still have.

Jimmy taught me some great things about the break shot. Taught me about his thought process in running out/playing position which really opened some doors for me and went into stuff about kicking/banking systems but even that was above my head at that time but it was neat to hear about it and see him execute stuff using his systems.

I've talked to Blackjack Dave on the phone several times and talked pool stuff. There is an instructor who KNOWS his stuff. I know he competed as a pro as well and even with his unfortunate health issues runs 100s. I can only imagine if he was feeling 100% all of the time how well he might play.

My friend Pooky who has competed and done well in pro tournaments/gambling showed me a lot of things here maybe a year ago. Some excellent practice drills, etc. Stuff I never thought of.

I definitely think that if you have an opportunity to learn from someone who has competed at the highest level and been a proven success, well...there is nothing better as a student of the game.

Just my .02.

 

[Scott Lee]

John...I would agree with you, to a point. The first thing you're wrong about, is my ability to help expert and pro players play better. I have worked with both, to their high degree of satisafaction. Second, I don't know why you're singling me out, except that I post here more. I have never claimed to be a champion player. I have finished as high as 3rd in a national tournament, and I have coached students from being a beginner, to winning national championships. That does give me some credibility.

MANY top pro players have worked with Randyg, also with exceptional results. There are many other fine instructors who have no doubt worked with higher level players too. I don't discount the fact that elite players, like you mentioned, have the competitive experience to be able to offer excellent direction, in terms of strategy, and finer points of certain games. I'm not arguing that point at all. However, nobody can teach someone how not to get nervous, or how to not fold up mentally, when their opponent runs a 6-pack on them. You either have that, or you don't (and let's face it, confidence comes largely from being able to TRUST your stroke). On the other hand, I've said many times, that lessons with top pros are better served, for the benefit of the student, when the student has perfected their stroke process. Otherwise, you can show somebody great stroke shots to make, but they can't execute them, like the pro can (or at least not without several tries...which doesn't help much in competition). While I may not be in the same 'competitive' league with players like yourself, I certainly have plenty to offer 98% of the poolplayers out there. I offer a money back guarantee, if you're not satisfied. How can I do it better?

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

guys like scott can teach the basics no doubt and do a great job.
thing is pool is about 50 percent decisions and 50 percent execution.

you absolutely should rate a pool coach on his ability because that shows how much knowledge they have for all aspects of the game.14.1,9ball,1hole etc.

if you think scott lee or any other non world class player coach could show you the same stuff and decision making as say mika ,archer,or myself i beg to differ.


another thing theres a reason pro basketball teams hire ex pro players to coach the team.its because the ex pro player knows what hes talking about from experience.

then theres the golf coaches and everybody says yeah but they cant play on tour.


believe me many of the swing coaches on the golf tour are ex pro playes or extremely good players.they could just about play on tour.hank haney,butch harmon etc.


all these guys that teach pool and claim i would have played pro pool but theres no money in it,instead i teach.lol its because they only play decent and have no other choice.

believe me ask johnny archer if he would rather be him or a pool instuctor lol.
in closing guys like scott lee are good for pool and teaching beginners.

but if anybody thinks that he could teach somebody as much as say allen hopkins over a weeks time then they have never taken a lesson for a week from both guys.
also no you cannot take up pool at like 40 and in a couple of years play pro pool.has never happened yet the game is to hard.you can become a great player but good enough to play pro i dont think so,not even with scott lees help.

 

[ShootingArts]

my way is best syndrome

Scott,

You, John, myself, everyone has a little bit of "my way is best" syndrome. The truth is that anybody with knowledge and the ability to convey it can teach. As a general statement I would say that the pro's and expro's make better coaches to help keep players playing at their optimum level if the coach is on hand during competition. Instructors often make better teachers because they have looked at the nuts and bolts of things while the pro may be doing them from many years of experience and have a hard time conveying how they do things to others.

There are exceptions to all general rules though including the ones that I have just given. Some instructors are excellent coaches and some pro's are excellent teachers. A person has to find a teacher that is right for them.

Hu

John...I would agree with you, to a point. The first thing you're wrong about, is my ability to help expert and pro players play better. I have worked with both, to their high degree of satisafaction. Second, I don't know why you're singling me out, except that I post here more. I have never claimed to be a champion player. I have finished as high as 3rd in a national tournament, and I have coached students from being a beginner, to winning national championships. That does give me some credibility.

MANY top pro players have worked with Randyg, also with exceptional results. There are many other fine instructors who have no doubt worked with higher level players too. I don't discount the fact that elite players, like you mentioned, have the competitive experience to be able to offer excellent direction, in terms of strategy, and finer points of certain games. I'm not arguing that point at all. However, nobody can teach someone how not to get nervous, or how to not fold up mentally, when their opponent runs a 6-pack on them. You either have that, or you don't (and let's face it, confidence comes largely from being able to TRUST your stroke). On the other hand, I've said many times, that lessons with top pros are better served, for the benefit of the student, when the student has perfected their stroke process. Otherwise, you can show somebody great stroke shots to make, but they can't execute them, like the pro can (or at least not without several tries...which doesn't help much in competition). While I may not be in the same 'competitive' league with players like yourself, I certainly have plenty to offer 98% of the poolplayers out there. I offer a money back guarantee, if you're not satisfied. How can I do it better?

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com