How to rule this.

LA toolman

LA toolman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm not sure if this situation has ever been covered in any rule book.
While playing league 8-ball,I mistakenly moved my opponents 7 ball while pocketing the first of my 3 remaining striped balls.
I let my opponent know I did it and he could move it back(even though I believe our league rule is it must be moved back).
He didn't bother after I gave him enough time to do so while I noticed his 7-ball had blocked a very small portion of the pocket
I intended to shoot the 8.I then continued to shoot my 2 remaining striped balls and play shape for the original pocket for
the 8-ball.So as I'm getting down to shoot the 8 this guy comes over grabs the 7 and puts it back where it was in the first
place and jokingly tells me he would go ahead and move it now since it wasn't blocking my shot.He and his teamates are all
good ole boys and I don't think he intended to shark me.Nevertheless I proceeeded to get down and tank the shot bigger than $..t.
In hindsight I think I should have walked over and thanked him for not making me shoot the 8.

What should the ruling be here? foul? loss of game?
He felt bad afterwards and did appoligize.
 
LA toolman said:
I'm not sure if this situation has ever been covered in any rule book.
While playing league 8-ball,I mistakenly moved my opponents 7 ball while pocketing the first of my 3 remaining striped balls.
I let my opponent know I did it and he could move it back(even though I believe our league rule is it must be moved back).
He didn't bother after I gave him enough time to do so while I noticed his 7-ball had blocked a very small portion of the pocket
I intended to shoot the 8.I then continued to shoot my 2 remaining striped balls and play shape for the original pocket for
the 8-ball.So as I'm getting down to shoot the 8 this guy comes over grabs the 7 and puts it back where it was in the first
place and jokingly tells me he would go ahead and move it now since it wasn't blocking my shot.He and his teamates are all
good ole boys and I don't think he intended to shark me.Nevertheless I proceeeded to get down and tank the shot bigger than $..t.
In hindsight I think I should have walked over and thanked him for not making me shoot the 8.

What should the ruling be here? foul? loss of game?
He felt bad afterwards and did appoligize.
Click to expand...

I believe that's a pretty obvious foul on his part. Depending on what rules you're playing under, he is only allowed to restore the ball before you take your next shot. After that if he picks up a ball it's a bih foul.
 
Actually it could be worst than that. Loss of game for un-sportsman like conduct.
randyg
 
If it was APA the rule is specific> The ball MUST be returned to its original position before the next shot is taken.

What he did was very unsportsmanlike to say the least.

How did the game end? How did the match end?

Maniac
 
LA Toolman:
In hindsight I think I should have walked over and thanked him for not making me shoot the 8.
Click to expand...
I think that's the easiest fair solution. In many tournaments it's an automatic concession if you get out of your chair.

pj
chgo
 
LA toolman said:
I'm not sure if this situation has ever been covered in any rule book.
While playing league 8-ball,I mistakenly moved my opponents 7 ball while pocketing the first of my 3 remaining striped balls.
I let my opponent know I did it and he could move it back(even though I believe our league rule is it must be moved back).
He didn't bother after I gave him enough time to do so while I noticed his 7-ball had blocked a very small portion of the pocket
I intended to shoot the 8.I then continued to shoot my 2 remaining striped balls and play shape for the original pocket for
the 8-ball.So as I'm getting down to shoot the 8 this guy comes over grabs the 7 and puts it back where it was in the first
place and jokingly tells me he would go ahead and move it now since it wasn't blocking my shot.He and his teamates are all
good ole boys and I don't think he intended to shark me.Nevertheless I proceeeded to get down and tank the shot bigger than $..t.
In hindsight I think I should have walked over and thanked him for not making me shoot the 8.

What should the ruling be here? foul? loss of game?
He felt bad afterwards and did appoligize.
Click to expand...
Opponent gave you a golden opportunity to win the game,you dogged it.
Opponent apologized and you want a rules meeting? How about LIGHTEN UP! It is only a game. Yes this type thing has happened before there are
rules to cover it. Life goes on.:wink:
 
rule

LA toolman said:
I'm not sure if this situation has ever been covered in any rule book.
While playing league 8-ball,I mistakenly moved my opponents 7 ball while pocketing the first of my 3 remaining striped balls.
I let my opponent know I did it and he could move it back(even though I believe our league rule is it must be moved back).
He didn't bother after I gave him enough time to do so while I noticed his 7-ball had blocked a very small portion of the pocket
I intended to shoot the 8.I then continued to shoot my 2 remaining striped balls and play shape for the original pocket for
the 8-ball.So as I'm getting down to shoot the 8 this guy comes over grabs the 7 and puts it back where it was in the first
place and jokingly tells me he would go ahead and move it now since it wasn't blocking my shot.He and his teamates are all
good ole boys and I don't think he intended to shark me.Nevertheless I proceeeded to get down and tank the shot bigger than $..t.
In hindsight I think I should have walked over and thanked him for not making me shoot the 8.

What should the ruling be here? foul? loss of game?
He felt bad afterwards and did appoligize.
Click to expand...

truley a league question?? how many beers had he had??? with out a doubt it a foul!!!:confused:
 
LA toolman said:
I'm not sure if this situation has ever been covered in any rule book.
While playing league 8-ball,I mistakenly moved my opponents 7 ball while pocketing the first of my 3 remaining striped balls.
I let my opponent know I did it and he could move it back(even though I believe our league rule is it must be moved back).
He didn't bother after I gave him enough time to do so while I noticed his 7-ball had blocked a very small portion of the pocket
I intended to shoot the 8.I then continued to shoot my 2 remaining striped balls and play shape for the original pocket for
the 8-ball.So as I'm getting down to shoot the 8 this guy comes over grabs the 7 and puts it back where it was in the first
place and jokingly tells me he would go ahead and move it now since it wasn't blocking my shot.He and his teamates are all
good ole boys and I don't think he intended to shark me.Nevertheless I proceeeded to get down and tank the shot bigger than $..t.
In hindsight I think I should have walked over and thanked him for not making me shoot the 8.

What should the ruling be here? foul? loss of game?
He felt bad afterwards and did appoligize.
Click to expand...

Valley rules, the opponent must restore the ball before the next shot is taken. Or they can grant you permission to restore the ball. BCA rules, this would DEFINITELY be unsportsmanlike conduct.
 
LA toolman said:
I'm not sure if this situation has ever been covered in any rule book.

...guy comes over grabs the 7 and puts it back where it was in the first
place and jokingly tells me he would go ahead and move it now since it wasn't blocking my shot.He and his teamates are all
good ole boys...

He felt bad afterwards and did appoligize.
Click to expand...

You gotta play both the room and the table. You are right, not in any rule book!

Sounds like everyone did just fine though...well except the part where you, "... proceeeded to get down and tank the shot bigger than $..t.". :grin::grin:
 
BCAPL ruling

LA toolman said:
I'm not sure if this situation has ever been covered in any rule book.
Click to expand...
Black-Balled said:
...You are right, not in any rule book!
Click to expand...

Not so much...in BCAPL play the situation is covered and the penalties are specific (and pretty severe). No need to wonder, guess, interpret or worry about what particular referee/TD is in charge.

In BCAPL play, the applicable rule is BCAPL Rule 1.40(d). BCAPL Applied Ruling 1.33 Situations 8-10 are also instructive/applicable.

Ruling in BCAPL: Deliberate foul on solids. Stripes has the option to have the 7-ball left in position, spotted or pocketed, BIH to stripes. Warning to solids that second and subsequent offenses will result in loss of game.

The situation is also a foul under WSR 6.6 if playing all ball fouls. However, even then there is no guidance under WSR on what to do with the 7-ball after it has been moved. However, If WSR Regulation 20 is in effect you are most likely left to the whims of the referee/TD for an interpretation on whether or not there is even a foul, as well as what to do with the 7-ball. You are also left to the whims of the referee TD concerning whether they will call UC.
:)

Buddy Eick
BCAPL National Head Referee
BCAPL Director of Referee Training
Technical Editor, BCAPL Rule Book
bcapl_referee@cox.net

Find the Official Rules of the BCA Pool League here:

http://www.playbca.com/Downloads/Rulebook/CompleteRulebook/tabid/372/Default.aspx

* The contents of this post refer to BCA Pool League (BCAPL) Rules only. The BCAPL National Office has authorized me to act in an official capacity regarding questions about BCAPL Rules matters in public forums.
* Neither I nor any BCAPL referee make any policy decisions regarding BCAPL Rules. Any and all decisions, interpretations, or Applied Rulings are made by the BCAPL National Office and are solely their responsibility. BCAPL referees are enforcers of rules, not legislators. BCAPL Rules 9.5.3 and 9.5.4 and the BCAPL Rules "Statement of Principles" apply.
* No reference to, inference concerning, or comment on any other set of rules (WPA, APA, VNEA, TAP, or any other set of rules, public or private) is intended or should be derived from this post unless specifically stated.
* For General Rules, 8-Ball, 9-Ball, 10-Ball, and 14.1 Continuous: there is no such thing as "BCA Rules" other than in the sense that the Billiard Congress of America (BCA) publishes various rules, including the World Pool-Billiard Association's "World Standardized Rules" for those games. The BCA has no rules committee. The BCA does not edit, nor is responsible for the content of, the World Standardized Rules. The Official Rules of the BCAPL is a separate and independent set of rules and, to avoid confusion, should not be referred to as "BCA Rules".
* Since 2004, there is no such thing as a "BCA Referee". The BCA no longer has any program to train, certify or sanction billiards referees or officials. The BCAPL maintains what we consider to be the most structured, complete and intensive referee training program available.
* The BCAPL has no association with the Billiard Congress of America other than in their capacity as a member of the BCA. The letters "BCA" in BCAPL do not stand for "Billiard Congress of America, nor for anything at all.
* The BCAPL has not addressed every imaginable rules issue, nor will it ever likely be able to, as evidenced by the seemingly endless situations that people dream up or that (more frequently) actually happen. If I do not have the answer to a question I will tell you so, then I will get a ruling from the BCAPL National Office and get back to you as soon as I can. If deemed necessary, the BCAPL will then add the ruling to the "Applied Rulings" section of The Official Rules of the BCA Pool League.
* All BCAPL members are, as always, encouraged to e-mail Bill Stock at the BCAPL National Office, bill@playcsi.com, with any comments, concerns or suggestions about the BCAPL rules.
 
Last edited:
LA toolman said:
I'm not sure if this situation has ever been covered in any rule book.
While playing league 8-ball,I mistakenly moved my opponents 7 ball while pocketing the first of my 3 remaining striped balls.
I let my opponent know I did it and he could move it back(even though I believe our league rule is it must be moved back).
He didn't bother after I gave him enough time to do so while I noticed his 7-ball had blocked a very small portion of the pocket
I intended to shoot the 8.I then continued to shoot my 2 remaining striped balls and play shape for the original pocket for
the 8-ball.So as I'm getting down to shoot the 8 this guy comes over grabs the 7 and puts it back where it was in the first
place and jokingly tells me he would go ahead and move it now since it wasn't blocking my shot.He and his teamates are all
good ole boys and I don't think he intended to shark me.Nevertheless I proceeeded to get down and tank the shot bigger than $..t.
In hindsight I think I should have walked over and thanked him for not making me shoot the 8.

What should the ruling be here? foul? loss of game?
He felt bad afterwards and did appoligize.
Click to expand...
So he decides to be a nice guy, move the ball so you now have a clear pocket to shoot the 8, you dog it and want to blame him. Learn to not dog the 8.
 
First of all, you don't specify the particular league you're playing in. Without knowing that, it's hard to make the call because different leagues would rule it differently.

LA toolman said:
While playing league 8-ball,I mistakenly moved my opponents 7 ball while pocketing the first of my 3 remaining striped balls.
Click to expand...

In the league I play in, this is a foul on you and your opponent would have ball-in-hand. The 7 ball would not be restored to its original location.

LA toolman said:
So as I'm getting down to shoot the 8 this guy comes over grabs the 7 and puts it back where it was in the first
place and jokingly tells me he would go ahead and move it now since it wasn't blocking my shot.
Click to expand...

In the league I play in, this would be a foul on him. The 7-ball would remain where he moved it to, and you would have ball-in-hand on the 8.

Different leagues have different rules and the outcome of the game could very well went either way depending on that. In APA or BCA, you would have continued to shoot after the first "foul" and gone on to win, like you did.

But in leagues that play all ball fouls, you would have given him ball-in-hand when you touched the 7 and he could have gone on to run out from there.
 
Clowning around

LA toolman said:
I'm not sure if this situation has ever been covered in any rule book.
While playing league 8-ball,I mistakenly moved my opponents 7 ball while pocketing the first of my 3 remaining striped balls.
I let my opponent know I did it and he could move it back(even though I believe our league rule is it must be moved back).
He didn't bother after I gave him enough time to do so while I noticed his 7-ball had blocked a very small portion of the pocket
I intended to shoot the 8.I then continued to shoot my 2 remaining striped balls and play shape for the original pocket for
the 8-ball.So as I'm getting down to shoot the 8 this guy comes over grabs the 7 and puts it back where it was in the first
place and jokingly tells me he would go ahead and move it now since it wasn't blocking my shot.He and his teamates are all
good ole boys and I don't think he intended to shark me.Nevertheless I proceeeded to get down and tank the shot bigger than $..t.
In hindsight I think I should have walked over and thanked him for not making me shoot the 8.

What should the ruling be here? foul? loss of game?
He felt bad afterwards and did appoligize.
Click to expand...
Obviously he was just clowning around and felt bad about his shallow victory. It threw you off and he should have stepped up and conceded the game. Everyone doesn't know the rules forward and backward. We learn more as time goes on. I would think a LO could adjust the win/loss thing given all the facts. Especially if your opp was in agreement that he was out of line.
 
Another testament to the many good reasons I'd never play in a league.

But .. the situation does answer the eternal question, "Why are there more horse's ass's than there are horses?"
 
Thanks for all of the responses.
I did lose that game but we won the match.
The league I play in is a local money league structured similar to BCA.
 
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