Hypothetical situation

Q

qbilder

slower than snails
Silver Member
Let me classify this as a "hypothetical" situation, meaning it could happen but hasn't neccesarily happened.

A guy buys one of my cues in the secondary market. He wants a tip change & a slight diameter decrease. He entrusts the job to a local "cuemaker"/repairman who also posts on this forum. The guy gets his shaft back & it's over .5mm smaller than he asked for. He asks why & the repairman tells him there was an air pocket in the ferrule & he had to cut & sand past it, which is why the excessive diameter was removed. I use Spalding melamine, and anybody who knows this product knows that it doesn't have "air pockets". Even if there "hypothetically" could have been, the correct fix isn't removing more material. The guy hacked the job, clearly.

That's a "shit happens" moment. Hey, it happens. Ok. However, the repairman in question went on to explain to the buyer of my cue how I do not build my own pointed forearms. He said that I have another builder supply me with them and that the buyer's cue was built with a such forearm. Not only is this complete & total BS lies, it's something i'd receive as insulting to me & my reputation. Maybe i'm wrong, but a cuemaker should not be making accusations about another builder with absolutely no knowledge or proof of the accusations, especially to do so to the accused cuemaker's buyers. It is blatant slander.

So given the ciscumstances, what would you all do in this situation? "Hypothetically", the customer calls BS, is pissed with the results & sends the shaft to me so I can bare witness to the botched job and to also correct the issue by building a new shaft. But in this "hypothetical" situation, would I be wrong to be pissed off & feel as if my reputation were being wrongfully attacted & slandered? How would you all handle this? Just kinda curious. I normally let stupiud crap go, but for some reason this is eating at me. And if you can't already tell, the situation might not really be hypothetical but instead actuality. I know the buyer isn't lying because the said repairman has done & said such things before. Do I get a lawyer & file a suit? There's nothing to win. Do I publicy out him? Nothing to gain. Or do I take the high road & just let it slide, letting the idiot dig himself into his own rut? I dunno. But i'm kinda pissed. Any wisdom would be much appreciated.
 
qbilder said:
Let me classify this as a "hypothetical" situation, meaning it could happen but hasn't neccesarily happened.

A guy buys one of my cues in the secondary market. He wants a tip change & a slight diameter decrease. He entrusts the job to a local "cuemaker"/repairman who also posts on this forum. The guy gets his shaft back & it's over .5mm smaller than he asked for. He asks why & the repairman tells him there was an air pocket in the ferrule & he had to cut & sand past it, which is why the excessive diameter was removed. I use Spalding melamine, and anybody who knows this product knows that it doesn't have "air pockets". Even if there "hypothetically" could have been, the correct fix isn't removing more material. The guy hacked the job, clearly.

That's a "shit happens" moment. Hey, it happens. Ok. However, the repairman in question went on to explain to the buyer of my cue how I do not build my own pointed forearms. He said that I have another builder supply me with them and that the buyer's cue was built with a such forearm. Not only is this complete & total BS lies, it's something i'd receive as insulting to me & my reputation. Maybe i'm wrong, but a cuemaker should not be making accusations about another builder with absolutely no knowledge or proof of the accusations, especially to do so to the accused cuemaker's buyers. It is blatant slander.

So given the ciscumstances, what would you all do in this situation? "Hypothetically", the customer calls BS, is pissed with the results & sends the shaft to me so I can bare witness to the botched job and to also correct the issue by building a new shaft. But in this "hypothetical" situation, would I be wrong to be pissed off & feel as if my reputation were being wrongfully attacted & slandered? How would you all handle this? Just kinda curious. I normally let stupiud crap go, but for some reason this is eating at me. And if you can't already tell, the situation might not really be hypothetical but instead actuality. I know the buyer isn't lying because the said repairman has done & said such things before. Do I get a lawyer & file a suit? There's nothing to win. Do I publicy out him? Nothing to gain. Or do I take the high road & just let it slide, letting the idiot dig himself into his own rut? I dunno. But i'm kinda pissed. Any wisdom would be much appreciated.
Click to expand...

It sounds like the story of the horrible work he did on the guys shaft will not go without being spread. His rep will be tarnished and if he is as bad as you describe he will self-destruct anyway. What he did was so brainless this can't be his first dissatisfied customer. As far as what he said about you, what do you really care what the village idiot says about you. Keep doing good work and it will speak for it's self. Never get into pissin% matches with idiots.
 
Hmmm...........that's a tough one. If you do in fact know who this "repairman" is, being the up front and no BS type person I am, I think I would just give him a phone call and straight up ask him what the *&%$ his deal is. I tend to like the method of cutting through the BS and going straight to the source of the problem at hand. Keep us updated! Don't let it get you down. Good luck!
 
qbilder said:
Let me classify this as a "hypothetical" situation, meaning it could happen but hasn't neccesarily happened.

A guy buys one of my cues in the secondary market. He wants a tip change & a slight diameter decrease. He entrusts the job to a local "cuemaker"/repairman who also posts on this forum. The guy gets his shaft back & it's over .5mm smaller than he asked for. He asks why & the repairman tells him there was an air pocket in the ferrule & he had to cut & sand past it, which is why the excessive diameter was removed. I use Spalding melamine, and anybody who knows this product knows that it doesn't have "air pockets". Even if there "hypothetically" could have been, the correct fix isn't removing more material. The guy hacked the job, clearly.

That's a "shit happens" moment. Hey, it happens. Ok. However, the repairman in question went on to explain to the buyer of my cue how I do not build my own pointed forearms. He said that I have another builder supply me with them and that the buyer's cue was built with a such forearm. Not only is this complete & total BS lies, it's something i'd receive as insulting to me & my reputation. Maybe i'm wrong, but a cuemaker should not be making accusations about another builder with absolutely no knowledge or proof of the accusations, especially to do so to the accused cuemaker's buyers. It is blatant slander.

So given the ciscumstances, what would you all do in this situation? "Hypothetically", the customer calls BS, is pissed with the results & sends the shaft to me so I can bare witness to the botched job and to also correct the issue by building a new shaft. But in this "hypothetical" situation, would I be wrong to be pissed off & feel as if my reputation were being wrongfully attacted & slandered? How would you all handle this? Just kinda curious. I normally let stupiud crap go, but for some reason this is eating at me. And if you can't already tell, the situation might not really be hypothetical but instead actuality. I know the buyer isn't lying because the said repairman has done & said such things before. Do I get a lawyer & file a suit? There's nothing to win. Do I publicy out him? Nothing to gain. Or do I take the high road & just let it slide, letting the idiot dig himself into his own rut? I dunno. But i'm kinda pissed. Any wisdom would be much appreciated.
Click to expand...

Eric,
You sould be pissed, I would be. But you don't need a guy like that spreading lies and BS about you. Because if he told him, he told someone else and so on. This industry suffers greatly from people that spread rumors they NEVER can confirm, or are willing to when called out, but they just like to talk like they know something. There is something going on like that in the Main forum.

Then when confronted they usually pipe down. But it's a BS practice that is for sure. No one has the balls to come to anyone's face, and it's a shame. Call that tard on the phone and let him have it. It would be enjoyable if you did it here, lol, but at least toast his sack on the phone, at a minimum.

JV
 
Cut him a slack. He only missed by half a mil.

OK, seriously, call him and get his side of the story first then go from there.
 
you guys are nicer then me. first thing id do is post tome pics of forearms in progress and completely make a fool of him. obv he doesnt care about you. why should you care about him?

this nonsense has been going on way too long. people that dont have a clue running their mouth...

is you material prone to melting when too hot. sounds to me that he got it too hot which caused a bubble. in that case its the repair mans fault and i liable for the repair...
 
I normally let stupiud crap go, but for some reason this is eating at me. And if you can't already tell, the situation might not really be hypothetical but instead actuality.
Click to expand...


ya i was thinking it sounds pretty detailed for hypothetical.


i can't really say for sure b/c i have yet to do a pointed forearm,but i would probably just explain to the customer that you did make the forearm and that the other cuemaker is a little lost.no way does LBM rod have air pockets,much les .5mm big air pockets.then i would probably start a thread about the whole event including the repair man's name(i bet i can guess in 3 tries btw)just to explain everything,not really to start a fight or anything but just for clarification.after his claims the repair man lost his right to anonymity.
 
Without knowing the history with this guy I would say one on one is the way to handle it. Phone call to find out exactly what makes him think the info he is putting out is correct and what led him to that conclusion.

I have had people spread rumors and bad info about my business and the times it has gone public usually didn't help things. Probably because I can be an asshole when I feel I have been wronged and get worked up talking about it. The point usually gets made but then some onlookers decide you are a bully or some other term for vigorously defending yourself. No win situation.

Unless this guy takes it public I would handle it as privately as possible. If he decides to spread lies in a public way you have to set the record straight. IMO of course.

Or just out the guy and lets get us a new 50 pager started. :D

<-----could start lots of 50 pagers

(I still have your magazines by the way. I was gonna ship them but figured it would give you an excuse to come to Derby. :D)
 
Hey Eric, i would think the best way is to let your pictures do the talking, post some picture of you doing your points, it will say everyone that you does your own point, which i think all knowledgable people here is AZ knows.

Thing about the "air pocket", it is a known fact that LBM will not have any. Which i think, the CM making such a claim will actually look like an idiot anyway.
 
JCIN said:
(I still have your magazines by the way. I was gonna ship them but figured it would give you an excuse to come to Derby. :D)
Click to expand...


Bunghole!!!! That's ok. I won't be doing derby but i'll certainly be doing VF. You going? Otherwise i'll catch you in vegas in May, or before hand.

As for outing the guy, I won't do it right yet. I'll see how things go. I'm sure he'll read this & hopefully he bites his tongue & that'll be the end of it. I have had words with him before on the forums & it's pointless so I have no intentions of speaking to him personally on the phone. I actually think I may have argued with him on another forum & if so, he pretended to be another cuemaker then later denied it. If that's the case then I owe a totally innocent cuemaker a huge apology. I'm going to get my facts completely straight on that first.

I don't have to prove anything to anybody. Plenty people have been to my shop & seen me building cues. The only thing I buy pre-made is bumpers, fiber rings, tips & joint pins. For a long time I even made my own pins & still make some of my own bumpers & tips. I have never been asked to explain myself because luckily nobody actually believes the horsesh!t this guy says. But it's annoying, regardless. It's the principle of the matter. I guess my main objective of the thread was to let him know that I know what he's up to, and have known for some time. I appreciate the comments & advice.
 
I wouldn't post pics of any unfinished work, anyone that matters knows the skinny. If the bum tells everybody in the trailer park, it don't matter, they ain't buyin' from you anyway. Let it ride until that fateful day when you two are face to face.
 
Eric,

Well, I think there are 2 separate things here.

First, you should give your customer an invoice for the cost of the replacement shaft. I know, you wouldn't make him pay it, but he should ask the person who ruined his first shaft to pay for the replacement. If he collects, you should be compensated.

Second, the talk about your forearms is hear say at best. I think Jcin is right in that you just give the guy a call. He may not even realize how negative his comments are. I don't recommend being harsh, or demanding, but more questioning as Jcin suggested. Just see if he has a good answer. If he doesn't, then he most likely won't continue to talk down your product.


Just my thoughts!

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
 
I am surprised that a so called good repairman,went ahead and thinned a shaft because of some ferrule material flaw.When the shaft was sized to the correct dimension and a so called flaw found,the ferrulle should have been replaced.Repairman could take a pic of said flaw as proof or call and inform the customer.
I don't think you should wear the cost of a replacement shaft,that someone elses mistake -however it happend making it wrong.
As for the slander about the handle,that is an other matter. Direct dialogue is probably best. Legal stuff gets costly really fast for often no outcome that benifits you.Unless the slander is causing a detrimental effect on your buisness and reputation.
Neil
 
I agree with neil, a simple replacement of the ferrule would have been the right choice, for about $10-15 bucks retail, IF that was the issue. It doesn't seem that way, but....
One of the nice traits of LBM is the lack of air pockets, gaps, etc.
I say give a challenge to him to come clean within a few days, and if he doesn't, then rat the guy's name, and then see if we hear his side! He posts here and does business here, and seems to pass judgement here, then he should be able to defend his position, before the whole body of members to see.....
It seems like lately, everyone is scared of causing a ripple in this section. In cases like this, it should be important to warn others of a person such as this. If he will lie about a repair, concerning one builder, what's to stop him to do the same about others here??? If he's willing to do that as a repair person to cover his own inabilities, then how is he as your builder????
It would be great if everyone played well, but we all know that isn't the truth.
Dave >>>>>>>Hope it all comes out in the wash
 
interesting dilemna

But no one seems to be bothered that the cue owner bought this cue second hand? How old is it? How many "expert" repairmen have worked on it? Where does the liability end? Is it cradle to grave for the cuemaker? If so we could never charge enough for our products to cover all the liability of not only our product but also the questionable skills of self taught repairmen.
Maybe a void was in the ferrule, BUT it was on its second ferrule? And any "real" repairman that found such a void, would call the customer to show him before replacing the ferrule. Never proceed to mutilate the shaft by cutting more material off the diameter of it. Or, as suggested, at least take a close-up photo of the damage. I have done that many times with cracked ferrules and tenons on repairs when I could not reach the customer for consent. I want to show the telltale blue chalk embedded in the crack so as to assure the customer that the damage was real. And yes that requires a good close-up, or macro lens camera.
Now what to do about the customer here? Possibly: Invite him to your shop ? Let him see forearms and all manner of components in process. Explain the kind of ferrule material you use has no "voids" issues. Outline the scenario of how easily a less experienced cue repairman caused this problem. And why that repairman should never have cut off more shaft material unless he was trying to cover up an error. Offer the customer a very reasonable price for a new shaft, with the condition that if he EVER needed a repair to contact you first and not expect you to cover the mistakes incurred by hacks.
 
First let me apologize since I am not a cuemaker but I think my point is relevant here

Eric
As a buyer/collector I would not care because I know you and the work you do and in the end it is the quality of your product that will make and maintain your reputation. Everyone needs to remember that when you falsely slander a competitor you just make yourself look bad.
Paul
 
thepavlos said:
First let me apologize since I am not a cuemaker but I think my point is relevant here

Eric
As a buyer/collector I would not care because I know you and the work you do and in the end it is the quality of your product that will make and maintain your reputation. Everyone needs to remember that when you falsely slander a competitor you just make yourself look bad.
Paul
Click to expand...

Hi,

Every knock is a boost. Deal with your customers one on one when they come to you. If the guy brings back the butchered shaft to you and complains tell him the truth.

You can't worry about things you can't control.

Rick G
 
qbilder said:
So given the ciscumstances, what would you all do in this situation? "Hypothetically", the customer calls BS, is pissed with the results & sends the shaft to me so I can bare witness to the botched job and to also correct the issue by building a new shaft. But in this "hypothetical" situation, would I be wrong to be pissed off & feel as if my reputation were being wrongfully attacted & slandered? How would you all handle this? Just kinda curious. I normally let stupiud crap go, but for some reason this is eating at me. And if you can't already tell, the situation might not really be hypothetical but instead actuality. I know the buyer isn't lying because the said repairman has done & said such things before. Do I get a lawyer & file a suit? There's nothing to win. Do I publicy out him? Nothing to gain. Or do I take the high road & just let it slide, letting the idiot dig himself into his own rut? I dunno. But i'm kinda pissed. Any wisdom would be much appreciated.
Click to expand...

First off, most customers are not as knowledgeable about the properties of ferrule mtrls. as are CMs. The repairman (in this case hack) messed-up and to cover his a$$, chose to blame it on the mtrl. He probably had a sense that his client would 'buy' the excuse and thereby give justification for the excessive T/D (turn-down). That in itself, is nothing short of bad business practice.

I also get the sense that the repairman is somehow envious of your success.
This is where the psychology of the matter comes into play.
Generally speaking, when one criticizes the work of another who is more successful, it's to elevate their own position, in the eyes of the person they are addressing. That's just flat-out lying and he's doing it at your expense.
Be advised that if you do nothing, it will continue. How you deal with the situation is entirely up to you.

I myself would probably attach a name (of the repairman) to the post and have the client substantiate what went down. That puts the repairman in the position of now having to defend the statements that he's made. He may totally deny having made said statements which is why you need the client to substantiate. Otherwise, it turns into a he-said/he-said.
If the repairman is a member of this forum, the body of membership will take it from there. That's one thing that they happen to do quite well, maybe too well.

When the truth is brought to light, your integrity would be restored, not that it's in question now, but the repairman should be made to understand that there are consequences to falsely discrediting another CM.
It's not likely to be pretty because once a rat is cornered, they tend to get vicious. Pretty or not, the rat needs to be put out of the house.
 
Not your sale not your customer

Eric ,I don't know you ,and only know your work .We have exchanged E-mails but thats it ....Now my God man you are an awesome cue builder period ...that is that ...you are also unfortunately a slow moveing target ,those at the top always are. You will be shot at... also you will be admired and praised for you quality and attention to detail....get use to it. As for this other repair mans screw up well technically this was not your sale this is not your customer you can't contol it ...It would feel nice to kick his but or out him but there's another....NIT... right behind him...For me' it would be nice if his name was leaked 'I would love to klnow who to stay away from....I'v only built a few cues and it's hard.... but not as hard as taking the high road..........Ray:grin:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top