I am a bad salesman.

[cuesblues]

This is an isolated incident with Ideologist, he fessed up to it, and I highly doubt it will ever happen again.
I would not hesitate to deal with Ideologist, other than this he has been a stand-up guy, and he contributes nicely to the forum.

Just my opinion of course

 

[Mrdodd72]

Buyers change their minds all the time before paying the money in all walks of life. Buying cars, houses, cues, etc. etc....all sorts of stuff. And it's generally viewed as "understandable". Not well liked, but understandable. There are even some laws on the books allowing a buyer to back out of a deal that's already been made a few days afterward.

My point being, why shouldn't the seller be afforded the same "understanding"?

Very bad business practice at best. The poor behavior of others does not excuse poor behavior. A salesperson lives and dies by their reputation. Just goes to show how flexible morals and ethics have become. It is very sad. The risk is higher for the buyer than it is for the seller, the product may be defective or not as described. The seller gets paid then releases the item, he always knows what he gets, $$; cash is cash. That is why the buyers are protected more than the sellers. The salesperson should always honor their deals, or they will not be salesmen for long.

 

[Mrdodd72]

I disagree. That would in turn mean that any buyer who backs out of a sale can't because they have already bought it...until pen meets paper or cash is received there is no "deal." Is it an easy way to ruin rep? Sure. Will it displease people? Yes? Is it a crime worthy of tar and feathering, burning at the stake or a good ol fashioned impaling? No. I have had sellers say they will get back to me and they don't. I have had buyers on a house get disappointed when their verbal offer didn't get hold it for them and a contract offer that was higher did. It is what it is. I would hope I wouldn't do something like this but I'm not going to judge.

Having the right to do something, does NOT make it the RIGHT thing to do.

 

[Spimp13]

I disagree. That would in turn mean that any buyer who backs out of a sale can't because they have already bought it...until pen meets paper or cash is received there is no "deal."

I disagree with this. I believe it is called a verbal contract (or maybe a different term for a PM/text agreeing to buy it) and it "might" be binding...I am not 100% on the law which may differ from state to state on something like this.

 

[trinacria]

All I read was I'm not a man of my word.

 

[macguy]

Very bad business practice at best. The poor behavior of others does not excuse poor behavior. A salesperson lives and dies by their reputation. Just goes to show how flexible morals and ethics have become. It is very sad. The risk is higher for the buyer than it is for the seller, the product may be defective or not as described. The seller gets paid then releases the item, he always knows what he gets, $$; cash is cash. That is why the buyers are protected more than the sellers. The salesperson should always honor their deals, or they will not be salesmen for long.

You just made a very good point. "ALL" the risk is being taken by the buyer. He is trusting the seller completely. The seller takes no risk at all and then goes as far as to violate the trust he has earned from the buyer. It is not the same as a buyer just backing out. The seller still has the cue and just moves on to another buyer.

 

[measureman]

Having seen how cue purchases transpire here on AZB, it will be a cold day in hell before I even offer to buy one off AZB, or make an offer at any auction site where the seller wants me to pay his auction fee or otherwise bypass the regular auction process.

I might deal with an in-person transaction, if I could research the cue quality and value, then hit some balls with it, prior to payment.[/QUOTE]

I just bought a cue this way. The owner let me have it and play with it for 3 weeks prior to my paying for it at a previously agreed on price.

 

[TheMarsMan]

I bought a Gus Szamboti from a seller on this forum for 10K, he agreed to overnight me the cue and I would overnight him payment.

Unknown to me Eric Peterson (Fatboy) offered 12K for the cue the same day and before he sent the cue or I had sent the check. He still sent the cue to me for 10K and never mentioned he had been offered more.

When Eric found out I was the buyer he told me he had offered 2K more and the guy wouldn't sell him the cue. Later I met the seller and thanked him for being true to his word.

If I make an agreement with someone I am not going to cancel the deal ever!

I have agreed to buy various items and before following through found the same item cheaper but I always bought the original item because I had given my word.

Seems pretty simple to me what the right thing to do in these situations.

 

[GideonF]

I disagree. That would in turn mean that any buyer who backs out of a sale can't because they have already bought it...until pen meets paper or cash is received there is no "deal." Is it an easy way to ruin rep? Sure. Will it displease people? Yes? Is it a crime worthy of tar and feathering, burning at the stake or a good ol fashioned impaling? No. I have had sellers say they will get back to me and they don't. I have had buyers on a house get disappointed when their verbal offer didn't get hold it for them and a contract offer that was higher did. It is what it is. I would hope I wouldn't do something like this but I'm not going to judge.

Without commenting on the specific facts of this transaction, I think people have a mistaken understanding of the law of contract. Assuming US law on this is the same as the Anglo-Canadian law, what you need is offer, acceptance and consideration. In the context of a cue sale, the consideration is the price that is agreed to be paid in exchange for the cue (it does not have to be paid yet for the contract to be binding). You generally do not need an invoice, a signed contract, other any other formality. The following link suggests the law is the same in at least one US State. http://jec.unm.edu/education/online-training/contract-law-tutorial/contract-fundamentals-part-2

Unless there is something material to be agreed on, or terms imposed via custom of the industry or something like terms of use of a website, or there is consumer protection legislation in place (for example allowing people a cooling off period from door to door sales etc., or requiring certain types of contract to be in writing and/or signed), buyers and sellers both can be bound to a deal though a verbal agreement or an email exchange.

I'm not suggesting that people should be suing each other over cue deals, but I do think people should understand that there can be legal consequences for "changing their mind" in these circumstances.

Gideon<---Not an American lawyer. Anyone considering their legal position should get actual legal advice

 

[deanoc]

mars man

i agree 100%
i have had several deals on both sides
once i have an agreement its final

if someone changes it,i never want to do business with them again

 

[Drop The Rock]

Without commenting on the specific facts of this transaction, I think people have a mistaken understanding of the law of contract. Assuming US law on this is the same as the Anglo-Canadian law, what you need is offer, acceptance and consideration. In the context of a cue sale, the consideration is the price that is agreed to be paid in exchange for the cue (it does not have to be paid yet for the contract to be binding). You generally do not need an invoice, a signed contract, other any other formality. The following link suggests the law is the same in at least one US State. http://jec.unm.edu/education/online-training/contract-law-tutorial/contract-fundamentals-part-2

Unless there is something material to be agreed on, or terms imposed via custom of the industry or something like terms of use of a website, or there is consumer protection legislation in place (for example allowing people a cooling off period from door to door sales etc., or requiring certain types of contract to be in writing and/or signed), buyers and sellers both can be bound to a deal though a verbal agreement or an email exchange.

I'm not suggesting that people should be suing each other over cue deals, but I do think people should understand that there can be legal consequences for "changing their mind" in these circumstances.

Gideon<---Not an American lawyer. Anyone considering their legal position should get actual legal advice

You are correct about this sir. I guess I was referring to socially accepted legal consequences lol.

 

[Bavafongoul]

Your word is your bond and if you fail to honor it, well then.....I guess it was just another junk bond.

The one thing that can't be stolen from me is my integrity......I can sure carelessly discard it but it can't be taken from me.

What others do is inconsequential to me until I have an opportunity to to do business with them.....and then it becomes very, very important.

Matt B.

 

[ibuycues]

What if the OP had been the buyer in this deal, and was pleased that he had just made an acquisition of a cue he had been seeking for a long time? However, the seller required him to join eBay, open a Paypal account, make the purchase including all attendant fees. So the OP embarks on all the necessary activities (banking issues, accounts, passwords, new user IDs, etc.. Then, later in the day the seller informs the OP, "Never mind, I sold the cue to someone else."

Would the OP be upset, possibly on here to do a public service for AZ by letting all know about how the scumbag transaction went down?

Did the OP get on here quickly to say what had transpired, because deep down, he knew he had taken the wrong road himself?

I am not alone when I say it is not old school to say ......you are only as good as your word....a handshake deal, even if only virtual, is in fact, your word. Your honor.

What has happened has happened. It still makes sense for the seller who backed out of a done deal to offer the injured buyer Something. From a heartfelt apology up to some juice on the difference in selling prices.

But Something........... No, it is not OK. See post #18.

This is just how I feel about it.

Will Prout


Let me add, the OP has demonstrated an ongoing good track record on AZ and is certainly someone I would deal with. Certainly. But this deal has not gone properly. So far.

 

[HighEndCues]

I bought a Gus Szamboti from a seller on this forum for 10K, he agreed to overnight me the cue and I would overnight him payment.

Unknown to me Eric Peterson (Fatboy) offered 12K for the cue the same day and before he sent the cue or I had sent the check. He still sent the cue to me for 10K and never mentioned he had been offered more.

When Eric found out I was the buyer he told me he had offered 2K more and the guy wouldn't sell him the cue. Later I met the seller and thanked him for being true to his word.

If I make an agreement with someone I am not going to cancel the deal ever!

I have agreed to buy various items and before following through found the same item cheaper but I always bought the original item because I had given my word.

Seems pretty simple to me what the right thing to do in these situations.

I've had this exact situation that John is referring to arise many times.
It can be a hard pill to swallow, but my word is final.
Best,
Ken

 

[Straightpool_99]

I got a massive lowball offer on my cue, accepted, and then canceled before I could shoot an invoice off because a much more generous offer came in.
That's nice, call the buyer a lowballer to destroy his credibility...
This happened within an hour, no money exchanged hands.
Verbal contract...
I am a monster.
Nope, but the thread title is accurate.
Please burn me at the stake.

No need. People now know that your word means nothing. They can take their chances or not, but at least it will be an informed decision.

 

[Charlie D]

Thanks Blue Hog,

This is the exact reason why attorneys with 30 page contracts and having to sign on fifteen lines before we can go buy a pack of gum (not quite that bad yet), When i was brought up a mans word meant more than any of these items and a hand shake better than any ink you could put on a contract line. My how times have changed.

BR,
Elveeze

Well Said! Charlie D

 

[mmwtdh]

Recently I accepted an offer on a cue for $2300 and not minutes later I received an offer of $2700. Of course I wanted to cancel the first deal but $400 was not worth my reputation and some day Ill get that $400 back Im sure. Just my $.02.

Yup, my word is worth more than a few thousand dollars...

 

[pickngrin]

I got a massive lowball offer on my cue, accepted, and then canceled before I could shoot an invoice off because a much more generous offer came in.

This happened within an hour, no money exchanged hands.

I am a monster.

Please burn me at the stake.

If there was such a thing as karma, the guy who gave you the higher offer would have backed out at the last minute, leaving you with a cue and no buyer. If I had been the first buyer, I would not take the cue if you gave it to me.

 

[Lonestar_jim]

Nobody accepts a massive low ball offer, do they ? As stated earlier this kind of language is used as justification for a poor decision.

 

[billiardthought]

Nobody accepts a massive low ball offer, do they ? As stated earlier this kind of language is used as justification for a poor decision.

I like this