Ian Anderson was right all along....

[Blackjack]

Sir with great respect I still must remain my position that the WPA and the BCA have in the last 15 years done nothing for the American players and the fact is proven today.

... and with all due respect the American players haven't done much either.

How have the professional players benefited?
They've gotten out of it exactly what they have put into it.

The players were able to make money with the Don Mackey/Camel events and they were disassociated with the WPA and BCA and once again with the IPT Tour which were also disassociated with the BCA and WPA.

No. The only people that made money in the Camel events were the top 8-10 players. The payout distribution was top heavy and caused many players to abandon their professional playing careers. The BCA and the pro tour parted ways in the late 1980's.The UPA and WPA have a great working relationship which was the result of a lot of hard work by all involved.

The players seem to be able to make money when they do go on their own its a matter of eveyone being organized and the players run the association themselves.
Everybody going off on their own is DIS-organization.

I do not see where involving the WPA in any of the mens tours would benefit the players at all and having Mr.Anderson send a letter to the players as though they the WPA have been there for them and that now they should include the WPA,in which case the players would have to pay for that.

The IPT had a flawed business model from the start. Keep in mind that just because pool is disorganized in North America, does not mean that it is disorganized and held in low regard worldwide. The WPA needs cooperation from the players, the promoters, and the existing organizations. Unless the cooperation starts within the industry and the separate tour systems, we will continue to be the problem children of the pool world.

Mr.Anderson and others have stated that the money received would then reflect back to the players in some fashion.I see that never happening it has not before and I dont see it happening in the future.

Understand that the money would be put back into the sport - to build it and to grow it - it would not go in the player's pockets. Perhaps someday if everybody decides to work together - then maybe the player's will benefit. If they cry foul and do nothing to help - they will continue to reap the benefits of that behavior.

The WPA has expenses so who pays for that? The players do not need the WPA an need to focus on themselves and promoting a Professional Tour with real prize monies $15,000.00 for 1st place in a so called World Championship is a huge joke you had larger prize funds 30 years ago.

I respectfully disagree with the $15K prize monies being a joke. If you knew what it was like to try and organize an event, draw players,draw fans and sponsorship (with little or no help from the industry) and if you knew how difficult it was to raise the added monies - and try to do everything on a shoestring budget - you would not be calling those events jokes. They are that way because of the attitudes. Their is a lot of work that needs to be done to rpomote the sport. Nobody - no business entity is just going to show up and invest money into a game where the players are unwilling to match that dollar amount with the hard work required to build, grow, and promote the game of pool positively. If the players don't need a WPA, then that means that they can do this all by themselves, right? KT tried it with a lot of money and it didn't work. Its time to drop this attitude of who's screwing who - work together and build something. All of the fingerpointing and blaming is wasted energy that could be used more constructively - IMO.

 

[elizabeth]

Sir you are missing the point entirely.The WPA letter by Ian Anderson was a joke and a plea to get in on the action so why would the IPT include them it would cost the players pure and simple .The players have never received anything from the WPA and they dont need them now.To include them does not mean that the players wish they would go away as it seems that they are not involved now.The IPT Tour and the players would receive nothing but headache and politics.

 

[elizabeth]

I respectfully disagree with the $15K prize monies being a joke. If you knew what it was like to try and organize an event, draw players,draw fans and sponsorship (with little or no help from the industry) and if you knew how difficult it was to raise the added monies - and try to do everything on a shoestring budget - you would not be calling those events jokes. They are that way because of the attitudes. Their is a lot of work that needs to be done to rpomote the sport. Nobody - no business entity is just going to show up and invest money into a game where the players are unwilling to match that dollar amount with the hard work required to build, grow, and promote the game of pool positively. If the players don't need a WPA, then that means that they can do this all by themselves, right? KT tried it with a lot of money and it didn't work. Its time to drop this attitude of who's screwing who - work together and build something. All of the fingerpointing and blaming is wasted energy that could be used more constructively - IMO.

How many players are making money now?How many players made a living under the BCA or the WPA?

 

[Blackjack]

I'm singing from the same song sheet as you, Elizabeth.

How mundane it is for one to state players need to stop promoting their gambling habits and do something for the sport?

LOL - and you say you love the game of pool? Give me a break. You love money more than pool, Jennie. If its mundane to work hard and build something that lasts, I'll be mundane. lol.

 

[JAM]

What is evident to me is that MANY American pro players spend every time they earn at any job they may possess to follow the tournament trail.

MANY American pro players donate their time to charity events to give back to society in an effort to promote pool as well as giving.

MANY American pro players sign autographs for FREE to anyone who asks them, without asking for anything in return.

MANY American pro players are filmed at various tournaments and receive no compensation, with the strong exception of Accu-Stats.

MANY American pro players hang out with fans, pool enthusiasts, and pool folk at each pool tournament, before, during, and after.

MANY American pro players help young children in pool rooms with their game, FREE of charge, because they like doing so.

MANY American pro players are spending every dime in their pocket to follow a tournament trail which doesn't offer a decent living.

I see MANY pool players giving of themselves quite often, with no compensation.

There is no Pied Piper for pool players to follow. There is no leadership in American pool organizations. It is every man for himself. The organizations for the last 40 years are all the same. Those in control have too much greed. Too many Chiefs and not enough Indians.

JAM

 

[elizabeth]

How many players are making money now?How many players made a living under the BCA or the WPA?

When you say work together what will the BCA and the WPA willing to do diffrent?

 

[elizabeth]

LOL - and you say you love the game of pool? Give me a break. You love money more than pool, Jennie. If its mundane to work hard and build something that lasts, I'll be mundane. lol.

I surely care more about than you do as why is it that you want to keep the players down and below the industry?Shameful

 

[elizabeth]

What is evident to me is that MANY American pro players spend every time they earn at any job they may possess to follow the tournament trail.

MANY American pro players donate their time to charity events to give back to society in an effort to promote pool as well as giving.

MANY American pro players sign autographs for FREE to anyone who asks them, without asking for anything in return.

MANY American pro players are filmed at various tournaments and receive no compensation, with the strong exception of Accu-Stats.

MANY American pro players hang out with fans, pool enthusiasts, and pool folk at each pool tournament, before, during, and after.

MANY American pro players help young children in pool rooms with their game, FREE of charge, because they like doing so.

MANY American pro players are spending every dime in their pocket to follow a tournament trail which doesn't offer a decent living.

I see MANY pool players giving of themselves quite often, with no compensation.

There is no Pied Piper for pool players to follow. There is no leadership in American pool organizations. It is every man for himself. The organizations for the last 40 years are all the same. Those in control have too much greed. Too many Chiefs and not enough Indians.

JAM

Thank You well said.
The organizations want to keep the players at a level below them and that is WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Blackjack]

I surely care more about than you do as why is it that you want to keep the players down and below the industry?Shameful

I ask you to provide one ounce of proof that I want to keep players below the poverty level. lol... your lack of overall knowledge of the WPA is hysterical. Either try to actively do something about these problems or provide suggestions for improvement. The IPT model of distancing themselves from the WPA/WCBS and most of the billiards industry didn't work. It didn't work when Mackey tried the same thing. Unless the players take a professional approach to marketing and promoting the sport, everything will remain the same. Nobody is going to show up and do it for them - KT tried to do that and it didn't work.

 

[JAM]

LOL - and you say you love the game of pool? Give me a break.

Where would you like it? The break in some pretty silly mumbo jumbo coming from a self-professed prophet of doom is all I have to offer.

You love money more than pool, Jennie. If its mundane to work hard and build something that lasts, I'll be mundane. lol.

"Mundane" was the only word I could think of without being rude.

And for the record, I do like money, Blackjack. I am unable to live without it.

Between the expenses and the politics, pool sometimes leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Even when you win, you have to invest it right back to go to the next event. It is extremely difficuilt to follow the American pool tournament trail for most players I know.

If American pro players invest their time and every dime in their pocket, Blackjack, what else would you suggest to effect a change for the better?

The BCA offers a once-a-year event for pro players around the world with a $15,000 first-place prize. Somehow, seeing that they have offices with full-time employees, I would like to see more monies invested in professional pool. Industry members do enjoy using the likeness of professional players in their advertisements. The lot of existing professional players is dwinding in the States. The sponsored ones, though, can keep it going, but I don't think they are laughing all the way to the bank.

JAM

 

[elizabeth]

LOL - and you say you love the game of pool? Give me a break. You love money more than pool, Jennie. If its mundane to work hard and build something that lasts, I'll be mundane. lol.

Please let me ask you a few questions.
Do you play pool for a living?
Do you depend on your talent and hardwork to pay your bills?
Do you ever go to work and leave without getting paid?
Do you put upfront monies to go to work?
Do you live,eat and breathe this sport?
Do you have the dedication,desires and dreams of these players?
Do you devote your time to charity events and exhibitions?
These guys do.

 

[elizabeth]

I ask you to provide one ounce of proof that I want to keep players below the poverty level. lol... your lack of overall knowledge of the WPA is hysterical. Either try to actively do something about these problems or provide suggestions for improvement. The IPT model of distancing themselves from the WPA/WCBS and most of the billiards industry didn't work. It didn't work when Mackey tried the same thing. Unless the players take a professional approach to marketing and promoting the sport, everything will remain the same. Nobody is going to show up and do it for them - KT tried to do that and it didn't work.

My proof is your attitude towards the players themselves.
I know a great deal more than you think i know about the WPA its past leaders and its leaders of today as well as the board members of the BCA heck i even know most of the presidents of the Billiard companies.I know more than you think.Most of all i know the players and with attitudes such as yours have kept them back.

 

[Blackjack]

lol @ both of you. There are people that work very hard to try and make the sport better than what it is, while some seem to thrive in the complacency of where it it seems to stay. Figure out where you are in that scenario.

 

[JAM]

lol @ both of you. There are people that work very hard to try and make the sport better than what it is, while some seem to thrive in the complacency of where it it seems to stay. Figure out where you are in that scenario.

I thank the good Lord that I do not have the same outlook as you, Blackjack. Talk about one tire in the sand!

JAM

 

[elizabeth]

I ask you to provide one ounce of proof that I want to keep players below the poverty level. lol... your lack of overall knowledge of the WPA is hysterical. Either try to actively do something about these problems or provide suggestions for improvement. The IPT model of distancing themselves from the WPA/WCBS and most of the billiards industry didn't work. It didn't work when Mackey tried the same thing. Unless the players take a professional approach to marketing and promoting the sport, everything will remain the same. Nobody is going to show up and do it for them - KT tried to do that and it didn't work.

I dont believe KT is done yet.Sure he has made mistakes are you telling me no-one in the WPA or BCA ever made mistakes?I dont see where the WPA has all this great marketing tools.The IPT tour will succeed without the WPA.No-one even knows who the WPA is.

 

[elizabeth]

lol @ both of you. There are people that work very hard to try and make the sport better than what it is, while some seem to thrive in the complacency of where it it seems to stay. Figure out where you are in that scenario.

You are a big joke.Could not answer any of my questions could you and i know why.You know nothing about it.

 

[elizabeth]

Where would you like it? The break in some pretty silly mumbo jumbo coming from a self-professed prophet of doom is all I have to offer.



"Mundane" was the only word I could think of without being rude.

And for the record, I do like money, Blackjack. I am unable to live without it.

Between the expenses and the politics, pool sometimes leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Even when you win, you have to invest it right back to go to the next event. It is extremely difficuilt to follow the American pool tournament trail for most players I know.

If American pro players invest their time and every dime in their pocket, Blackjack, what else would you suggest to effect a change for the better?

The BCA offers a once-a-year event for pro players around the world with a $15,000 first-place prize. Somehow, seeing that they have offices with full-time employees, I would like to see more monies invested in professional pool. Industry members do enjoy using the likeness of professional players in their advertisements. The lot of existing professional players is dwinding in the States. The sponsored ones, though, can keep it going, but I don't think they are laughing all the way to the bank.

JAM

My point exactly.

 

[sniper]

What has the WPA ever done for the players? A big fat nothing.All the WPA is wanting is a part of the action,spotlight or whatever they feel they can benefit.How would the players or the IPT benefit?The WPA is a joke and never have they helped put money in the players pockets.The professional players are the backbone of this sport and have never been rewarded for that.

I'm afraid your post is badly uninformed and extremely shortsighted. The WPA is a big reason for the world eight and nine ball championships, the world nine ball championship (WPC) has grown into the biggest pool tournament in the world, both in prize money and in terms of international participation, this was made possible with the help of matchroom sport.

The WPA World Eight ball championship is a $120,000 event, considerable prize money by pool's standards. So to say " The WPA is a joke and never have they helped put money in the players pockets" is about as far from the truth as you can get

Perhaps in the future you can put a little more thought into your posts and don't post lies about something you obviously know nothing about?

 

[Blackjack]

to answer your questions - I have consistently made a living playing, teaching, and coaching players for the past 25 years. I have actively been through many of the situations you referred to. As far as your other comments as well as JAM's - think what you'd like. There are people working hard as you peck on your keyboard - so to steal a line from Kevin Trudeau - your opinion doesn't matter.

 

[JAM]

The WPA World Eight ball championship is a $120,000 event, considerable prize money by pool's standards. So to say " The WPA is a joke and never have they helped put money in the players pockets" is about as far from the truth as you can get ...

Sniper, are you referring to the 8-ball tournament that is held in the Middle East? I think that is a GREAT event. I had thought Matchroom Sports was the entity which organized this tournament.

It would be nice to see the WPA have a bigger presence in the United States. I have often wondered why so many European players have emigrated to the States to compete here on American soil.

$120,000 is good dough, but to be honest with you, Sniper, I have overheard some American players not desiring to travel there for this event because of the pending problems which may ensue to Americans who travel in that region of the world.

JAM