Ian Anderson was right all along....

[Roy Steffensen]

Yeah, you could start with the IPT, they need all the help (read: money) they can get now...

If I understand you correct you believe that the poolworld would have been better without the WPA and a world governing body? Let there be loads of individual promoters and organizers all around the world, 17 World Championship in one year because every one of them claims to have the right to call it exactly that, no standard poolrules, they can be different not only from continents to continents, but from poolhalls to poolhalls and no one can tell the media what is the world standarized rules...

Am I correct that you believe WPA is a joke and worthless, or do you see why the WPA should be an organization that ALL of those involved with pool should be a part of?

 

[JAM]

...you have just blamed me for the sad state of pool.

Just as YOU have blamed the American pool players for the sad state of pool.

JAM

 

[elizabeth]

Maybe it's just me, but that approach has been tried via the UPA. There were MANY players who supported the UPA. What is going on with the UPA tour in 2007?



I'd venture to guess that the MAJORITY of American pool players who compete professionally do not spend the majority of their time "gambling in bars and pool halls." Nice intentional stereotype, Blackjack.

JAM

The UPA WHOS THAT?They got alot of rewards from the WPA ok and now that basically no-one knows who or what the UPA is now what?You cannot have one player run a self promoted tour.Now the BCA and the WPA did what? Or did the players just have fees deducted to go to the WPA?The events are televised on what programming.The payouts are what?See the point is Charlie used the political route with the BCA and the WPA and its still the same no rewards or large payoffs and no big promotions so where did Charlie benefit?Where did the players on that tour benefit?

 

[elizabeth]

Well, it begs the question. What are the benefits of sanctioning with the WPA? What have they done for American players lately?

JAM

What have the players ever really benefited?

 

[elizabeth]

Yeah, you could start with the IPT, they need all the help (read: money) they can get now...

If I understand you correct you believe that the poolworld would have been better without the WPA and a world governing body? Let there be loads of individual promoters and organizers all around the world, 17 World Championship in one year because every one of them claims to have the right to call it exactly that, no standard poolrules, they can be different not only from continents to continents, but from poolhalls to poolhalls and no one can tell the media what is the world standarized rules...

Am I correct that you believe WPA is a joke and worthless, or do you see why the WPA should be an organization that ALL of those involved with pool should be a part of?

I tell you what the players that hold World Titles prior to the WPA that they do not have World Titles.Lets see that means Steve Mizerak,Allen Hopkins and the list goes on you tell them and their families that since they did not win in a WPA World Championship that their titles do not count.This will be a very long list as many players hold that title and i believe on AZ Billiards website it states Johnny Archer holds 4 Worlds but you are saying he does not because one was on the PBT Tour.I dont believe that you understand it from a players point at all and even the fans of the sport.The WPA is a joke.They can have their rul;ebook which i believe the BCA had prior to the WPA.I never said no rules all i said was the WPA and the BCA hold one event per year they do not support the players or the talent as the organizations do in Golf and in Tennis.

 

[Blackjack]

Just as YOU have blamed the American pool players for the sad state of pool.

JAM

Stereotypes? lol. ok.

The sad state of pool is EVERYBODY'S fault. Until you realize that - you can toss as many stones my way as you'd like, Jennie. You and I were in complete agreement about what should be done when we spoke 2 years ago. You have allowed the IPT situation and our opposing viewpoints to interfere with our mutual respect for each other. I remember trying to call you to speak with you about the IPT so we would not have this type of attitude towards each other. I remember talking to Keith for over an hour while you refused to come to the phone. At least I tried, Jennie. All of a sudden I'm your enemy. Prior to Kevin Trudeau, you and I were in total agreement. Just because I saw right through Kevin from the onset - I became the "Pool's Prophet of Doom" and "the great naysayer of pool". Now that the IPT is history, I'm still here and singing the same song I was singing when we had those conversations back in '05. I have never changed my stance this topic, so why is it outrageous today when you were in complete agreement and support of my views 2 years ago? Is it because of the IPT? The PCA? The Camel Tour? Which one is it that I am being blamed for here? I spoke out against Mackey in 1994 - was that my fault too? You give me and others too much credit. Instead of staying in this muck - come up with ideas that can positively take pool where it should be. No short cuts - no silver bullets or quick fixes or rich uncles - I know you have a lot fantastic ideas that can be implemented and successful.

 

[elizabeth]

Either provide suggestions - or stop trolling the board. I don't need to provide names of players or events I have played in to qualify myself to speak on this topic or to provide validity to my opinions. Ask around. People know who I have coached, people know that I have ben involved at every level of the sport for quite some time. Nice diversion from the topic - obviously you're running out of ammunition.

As I said earlier, your lack of knowledge about the inside issues makes your point of view both sad and humorous at the same time. Who cares who is at fault? Learn from mistakes and move forward. Pool's future is not wrapped up in blaming certain people for getting us into our current situation - its about developing ideas to change this current situation - long term. Saying that the players shouldn't work towards that is the attitude that has gotten us where we are today. Why is that such a horrrible idea? You haven't answered any of the other questions - you have just blamed me for the sad state of pool. lol. Answer that question - its on topic.

I have been around the pool scene about 15 years and probably every pro tournament for 10 years and over 30 countries I have never heard of u.

 

[Blackjack]

I have been around the pool scene about 15 years and probably every pro tournament for 10 years and over 30 countries I have never heard of u.

Good. I've never heard of you either, so we're even.

 

[Bishop]

These post are not about ideas or suggestions a mere reply in regards to the WPA letter regarding the IPT Tour and the nonsense that the players in the US need to pay them for the big stamp of approval that the WPA seems to think everyone needs.

The thing is you've only made one point and then ranted for a couple of hours about it without backing it up with some ideas or solutions. I'm not even sure what you are trying to accomplish.

I have a forum with "Things that Suck" section maybe something like that would work for you.

 

[elizabeth]

Stereotypes? lol. ok.

The sad state of pool is EVERYBODY'S fault. Until you realize that - you can toss as many stones my way as you'd like, Jennie. You and I were in complete agreement about what should be done when we spoke 2 years ago. You have allowed the IPT situation and our opposing viewpoints to interfere with our mutual respect for each other. I remember trying to call you to speak with you about the IPT so we would not have this type of attitude towards each other. I remember talking to Keith for over an hour while you refused to come to the phone. At least I tried, Jennie. All of a sudden I'm your enemy. Prior to Kevin Trudeau, you and I were in total agreement. Just because I saw right through Kevin from the onset - I became the "Pool's Prophet of Doom" and "the great naysayer of pool". Now that the IPT is history, I'm still here and singing the same song I was singing when we had those conversations back in '05. I have never changed my stance this topic, so why is it outrageous today when you were in complete agreement and support of my views 2 years ago? Is it because of the IPT? The PCA? The Camel Tour? Which one is it that I am being blamed for here? I spoke out against Mackey in 1994 - was that my fault too? You give me and others too much credit. Instead of staying in this muck - come up with ideas that can positively take pool where it should be. No short cuts - no silver bullets or quick fixes or rich uncles - I know you have a lot fantastic ideas that can be implemented and successful.

Who Jennie?

 

[elizabeth]

The thing is you've only made one point and then ranted for a couple of hours about it without backing up with some ideas of solutions. I'm not even sure what you are trying to accomplish.

I have a forum with "Things that Suck" section maybe something like that would work for you.[/QUOT


If talking the truth sucks then there you have it.

 

[Roy Steffensen]

I tell you what the players that hold World Titles prior to the WPA that they do not have World Titles.Lets see that means Steve Mizerak,Allen Hopkins and the list goes on you tell them and their families that since they did not win in a WPA World Championship that their titles do not count.This will be a very long list as many players hold that title and i believe on AZ Billiards website it states Johnny Archer holds 4 Worlds but you are saying he does not because one was on the PBT Tour.I dont believe that you understand it from a players point at all and even the fans of the sport.The WPA is a joke.They can have their rul;ebook which i believe the BCA had prior to the WPA.I never said no rules all i said was the WPA and the BCA hold one event per year they do not support the players or the talent as the organizations do in Golf and in Tennis.

Guess I do not understand it, sorry... As I see it now I will try to change the name on the tournament I will organize in January to the World 8-ball Championship...

I haven't said anything about what I mean about World Championships played in the past, but since you're on it: In 1999 there were played 2 World 9-ball Championships, so who is the World Champion for 1999? In my opinion there can only be one World Champion in 9-ball each year... I will not say that one of the champions is not a worthy champion, but my point is that I will not have it like this IN THE FUTURE... You get it, or would it be great having dozens of World Championships a year? Think that will improve the sport and make it better for the pros?

And about the rules? Yes, maybe BCA had their rules, and EPBF had some other rules, and in Asia they used someone else again, that's my point! With the WPA we got WORLD STANDARIZED RULES...

Please read the future posts twice, count till 10, think before write and don't put words in someone's mouth, then post... Just an advice...

 

[Blackjack]

Who Jennie?

So, you've never heard of her either? lol.

 

[Bishop]

so what are you talking about?

You post nonsense. I actually think its funny. I wish I had the ability to go on and on with out making any sense or fudamentally backing up my arguements. Come to think of it I'm not even sure if you have an arguement.

You know the moon was made of cheese too.

 

[JAM]

Stereotypes? lol. ok.

The sad state of pool is EVERYBODY'S fault. Until you realize that - you can toss as many stones my way as you'd like, Jennie. You and I were in complete agreement about what should be done when we spoke 2 years ago. You have allowed the IPT situation and our opposing viewpoints to interfere with our mutual respect for each other. I remember trying to call you to speak with you about the IPT so we would not have this type of attitude towards each other. I remember talking to Keith for over an hour while you refused to come to the phone. At least I tried, Jennie. All of a sudden I'm your enemy. Prior to Kevin Trudeau, you and I were in total agreement. Just because I saw right through Kevin from the onset - I became the "Pool's Prophet of Doom" and "the great naysayer of pool". Now that the IPT is history, I'm still here and singing the same song I was singing when we had those conversations back in '05. I have never changed my stance this topic, so why is it outrageous today when you were in complete agreement and support of my views 2 years ago? Is it because of the IPT? The PCA? The Camel Tour? Which one is it that I am being blamed for here? I spoke out against Mackey in 1994 - was that my fault too? You give me and others too much credit. Instead of staying in this muck - come up with ideas that can positively take pool where it should be. No short cuts - no silver bullets or quick fixes or rich uncles - I know you have a lot fantastic ideas that can be implemented and successful.

Wow. What a stray bullet directed at me out of nowhere!

I never said YOU were the blame, Blackjack. I just do not agree with your sterotypical descriptions of American pool players, the same ones you claim you desire to help.

JAM

 

[TheOne]

Oh dear what happened to this thread? Eliz your understanding of the WPA needs some work. I understand why you and JAM are upset but IMO you are blaming the wrong org.

The sad thing is America still has some of the greatest pool events in the world, what it lacks is solidarity, and doesn't this thread just highlight the problem!

DCC
US Open
BCA Open
Challenge of Champions
Valley Forge
World Summit
Reno Open
Joss Finals
etc etc

IMO the American pool industry needs to stop feeling sorry for itself and blaming world governing bodies and focus on what you already have. If you could pull it all together into ONE PRO MENS TOUR you would have th best mens tour in the world. It's no coincidence that the best women's tour in the world is in the USA, the men's would be too if a single person or entity could bang some heads together and sort out all this $hit.

 

[JAM]

...I remember trying to call you to speak with you about the IPT so we would not have this type of attitude towards each other. I remember talking to Keith for over an hour while you refused to come to the phone....

I was out walking the dog, Blackjack, as I have stated to you on this forum previously when you made mention of the same conversation with Keith.

It is difficult for me to appreciate your desire to improve the current state of pool in the United States for American pool players when you seem to stereotype pool players in the derogatory manner that you have, as demonstrated on this thread.

JAM

 

[JAM]

Oh dear what happened to this thread? Eliz your understanding of the WPA needs some work. I understand why you and JAM are upset but IMO you are blaming the wrong org.

The sad thing is America still has some of the greatest pool events in the world, what it lacks is solidarity, and doesn't this thread just highlight the problem!

DCC
US Open
BCA Open
Challenge of Champions
Valley Forge
World Summit
Reno Open
Joss Finals
etc etc

IMO the American pool industry needs to stop feeling sorry for itself and blaming world governing bodies and focus on what you already have. If you could pull it all together into ONE PRO MENS TOUR you would have th best mens tour in the world. It's no coincidence that the best women's tour in the world is in the USA, the men's would be too if a single person or entity could bang some heads together and sort out all this $hit.

Craig, I agree with much of what you say.

Where we may have a difference of opinion is that I do not think that the American pool industry -- pool players in particular -- are blaming the world governing bodies.

I think the WPA has a better presence in countries other than the United States.

JAM

 

[TheOne]

Craig, I agree with much of what you say.

Where we may have a difference of opinion is that I do not think that the American pool industry -- pool players in particular -- are blaming the world governing bodies.

I think the WPA has a better presence in countries other than the United States.

JAM

I think you're right JAM as we prob do disagree on only this, I really don't think you're correct though. As far as I know the WPA basically delegates responisbility to regional organisations such as the European Pocket Billiard Federation (EPBF) in Europe for example. Gre Landers is the president of the EPBF and if you ever go to a Euro Tour event you will struggle to see any sign of the WPA, in fact in all my travels playing pool I have rarely seen a representative of the WPA, other than maybe at the WPC9b for example. Is this bad, maybe if you think the WPA is soley responsible for world pool in every corner of the globe. I don't think this is or should be the role of the WPA, to me pool needs a global structure and a sole body because of the excellent points already raised in this thread (to develop youth, promote the sport, hold world championships, and yes sanction events etc.) IMO if you should take the WPA to task on anything it should maybe to resolve what has happened to the USA mens pro tour in recent times.

The fact of the matter is the regional bodies in Asia and Europe are outperforming their American regional counterparts (as far a the mens professional tour) is concerned.

I don't know all the history but I suspect you might not agree with what I'm about to add. Although it had it's faults I thought the UPA was doing the right thing by trying to get the crown jewels of American tournaments under one professional tour. Before it stalled they had the the US Open, BCA Open, World Summit, Valley Forge, plus the UPA Finals and events in Atlanta, Florida etc. If only they could have added the DCC, and a few other events (e.g. could the challenge of champions been a USA Tour king of the hill?) then it would have been Europe and Asia playing catch up.

 

[jay helfert]

I dont believe the WPA should organize events in the USA all I am saying is dont ask to reep rewards of what the players have as Ian was basically asking of the IPT.The players and the IPT should not have to give up anything to organizations that do not lend a helping hand.And you know what I have been around many players,promoters and governing bodies and maybe I will work with the players and even perhaps the IPT as I feel that we all want the same thing the players to finally be rewarded for their talent and struggles.

And you think this was the goal of the IPT? At this point in time, the IPT is a tour in name only. It has come and gone. The train left the station long ago and no one was on it, except KT and Dumbo.