In regards to John Schmidt, the champion

N

NYC cue dude

Banned
First, I'd like to say that recently I haven't been posting much and hardly ever start a new thread, although I daily read the goings on here.

After reading the "what it takes to be a champion" thread and Johns subsequent leaving the forum, I feel compelled to post.

My personal experience is as follows;

I first started playing seriously in the late 80's, early nineties at Chelsea billiards in NYC. Of course I played earlier in life, but it wasn't until then that I was surrounded by shortstops, hustlers and champions.

I befriended Ginky back then, when he was a low B player. He went on to eventually become the BCA champion. He practiced more than most pros ever do. He progressed so fast though, that anyone with eyes knew underlying everythin was natural talent.

George mikula taught me how to play pool. He and I both knew I didn't have that natural talent, but he taught me because he loved my desire. He told me then that all great players had top level muscle memory abilities, eye hand coordination, and keen eyesight. He believed that just desire and hard work could NOT get just anyone across the finish line.

Now I have been blessed that I van say I've "trained" with real champions. Since 2003 I have probably played over 10,000 hours. I've probably played 1000 hours with Ginky. For a year and a half, I played EVERYDAY A MINIMUM of 8 hours a day, sometimes 12 or 13 hours, with Thorsten Hohmann. Over the last 7 years I have played a significant amount of time, as friends (not in tournaments, action or as a student), with such champions as Charlie Williams, Johnny Archer, Mika, ervolino, lipsky, barouty, and others, including John Schmidt a time or two. The time spent on the (there has been many more) table with these folks wasn't casual and I mention these folks in particular because they genuinely wanted to help improve my game. And it did. I have been fortunate being retired in my 30's that I could dedicate myself entirely to pool during this time. I started as a c player. At my best, I improved to a steady b+ player and at my very best I could play very abbreviated periods of A speed 14.1 (3 innings in a 100 point game).

All this to say that I had every advantage. Champions to play with, unlimited practice time, the best equipment and indefinite sources of pool readily shared pool knowledge. I consider myself to have above average intelligence and above average phsysical skills. I was, a long time ago, a very skilled wrestler, even competing in Olympic qualifiers. With regards to pool though, I didn't have the "natural talent", and this is why I'll never be a world champion, or a touring pro, or even a regional shortstop. Either you have it or you don't.

As an example, Thorsten played pro speed within 2 years of picking up a cue. Within 2 more years he won the world 9 ball championships. Sure he practiced, but not 10 hours a day. And come on, within 2 years playing like that????

I believ that there are many people in the US who could play pro speed pool, who will never know because they will never pick up a cue. If you have been playing a few years already, and haven't quickly progressed to a shortstop level, chances are you never will.

Sure there are the rare occurences, the seldom abberations. Tommy Kennedy comes to mind. Not a lot of talent, but more than most, who plays stellar pool for a few months straight, and snaps a big one off to become a legend. Realistically though, how many are like that out of the millions that have EVER played?

For those that chased John away, I hope your happy. Every pro that has ever posted here has been chased away, inluding Thorsten. It is true what John said, that the pros do try and persuade other pros not to post on AZ. They laugh at us and belittle us. I have personally heard it, a few different times. The way John was treated is the reason. And he was one of the few who stuck around, for whatever reason. Some here feel he was obligated to come here and teach and share his wisdom. Truth is, he's not.

I agree with JAM that John shouldn't come here anymore if the experience isn't enjoyable. That goes for any member.

Count me in the camp that's says if you don't have the inate natural talent, then there is no way to manufacture it.

Rg
 
RG - Thanks for adding something unique to the debate.

Unique, because your life circumstances are so unusual. Take a fairly athletic adult with a burning desire to achieve in pool, unlimited time to play and access to the game's best players to learn from, and see how far he gets. I guess the answer is you get a very proficient player but in no way a champion. Most non-champions, like me, haven't had those opportunities and so we can always blame the lack of them for not getting where we'd like to be. Convenient.

I was pretty disappointed in the recent "John Schmidt" thread. I posted early in the thread that I hopes he comes back. By the end of the thread, I was thinking maybe he shouldn't. Too many people out for his blood and too many all too eager to cut him down to size. He doesn't have the temperament to accept this calmly. Few, if any, at his level of the pool hierarchy would have that temperament.

It's a shame. This is a pool forum, after all. There are people who are special and deserve some extra respect because of what they've accomplished in the sport we're all here to talk about. If that makes me a Schmidt nuthugger, as some would crudely say, then I plead guilty.
 
nice post... I share your thoughts on the fact that very few people could ever get to be a top level world champion for a extended length of time, if they didn't have the natural gifts described by yourself. They can practice all they want, read very book and watch ever DVD in the world, practice with champions, live and breath pool. It just isn't going to happen except for a few rare cases.

When you think about what it takes to play pool, to project a little white ball into another ball and send it to precise locations on the table every time, to be able to hit a precise location on the object ball from 9 feet away AND after contact, land in a little box for shape, to go off a object ball and weave thru other balls to land in a predetermined location, that all takes a tremendous act of a whole bunch of things being done right and being done every time, thousands of times a day even in long matches.

I don't believe PRO's will ever frequent this board for any length of time, due to the fact they are in a whole different group then all the rest of us. They are always going to take abuse and ridicule by people that the pro knows they could give the 2 out to for all their cash. No one can handle that. I'm a computer expert and I can't tell you how much I hate listening to people that think they know about computers, telling me or someone else, how to do something. I can tell they have not clue one on what they're talking about. But I am also a great teacher, who loves to educate and help anyone that is wanting to learn or listen. But at the first sign of them not wanting to learn or listen and thinking they know everything, that desire fades quick.

That is the problem... I think there are many PRO's that would want to help people with their game, but only if they listen and want to learn. You can't separate those people in a forum though, for those 5 that want to learn and listen, there are 15 that want to bash the person or ridicule them. A forum is just not the right tool to have a happy medium to teach. A DVD doesn't talk back. A DVD allows the person to get across what they want with no interruption and the user can take what they want from it. Additionally, working with a person or group one on one, is a great way to ask the PRO lots of questions, but generally these are people that are paying and they are not going to be debating or arguing with the PRO.

It's just the way things are in the world of forums, a PRO doesn't want to come on and debate and argue and have flaming contests, I'm sure they have other things to do. Most are probably hunt and peck typers too.

Everybody here has a choice if they want to read the threads, which ones they read, which ones they respond too, how they respond... In the end, it's free speech and everyone is entitled to their opinion. Nothing wrong with that, but no one should be expected to have to participate and no one should be slammed if they don't want to participate. Would it be nice for us to have the ability to ask PRO's questions, sure.... but it will probably never happen in a unmoderated forum. Those tend to only work when someone is screening the questions and only posting those that have merit.

If I ever fall on my head and crack it open, and upon waking up, I have the skills needed to be a PRO player, I will promise I will come on here and impart all my knowledge and accept all questions.

CaliRed
 
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Hi Randy. Hope you're well.

Let me open by saying that John is one of our game's true superstars, one who represents our sport well whenever he graces a tournament with his presence, and I usually find myself rooting for him to succeed, but ......

To be honest, in the thread on what it takes to be a champion, most posters agreed with John's assessment that few have even the potential to be champions. Those who didn't agree said so without using an aggressive, abrasive tone. These posters are entitled to their opinions, but, in a few cases, they were treated with disrespect and incivility for their views by John. In some cases, they responded to John's personal attacks with contempt, in other cases they just dealt with it. Regardless, John was, almost without exception, the aggressor and if the easily foreseen result of his numeorus disrepectful posts is that he no longer wishes to dwell in the AZB neighborhood, it's a decision all posters should respect. Nonetheless, the suggestion that he was driven away is nonsense. His aggressive, contemptive, disrespectful style of posting in the thread noted, quite predictably, brought out the worst in a few of our posters, and in the final analysis, if he is gone, he drove himself away.

FYI, just today, John posted an apology for his tirades, and it speaks well of him that he tried to mend things between himslef and the andful of posters with whom he had heated, unpleasant, exchanges with. Those posters have, subsequently, responded to John in a style of respect and reconciliation.

As for whether pros should post here, that all depends on what they seek. For example, John Schmidt himself and Danny Harriman have, in the past, used AZB to try to generate sales of DVDs of their 14.1 high runs. Other pros also use the forum to publicize and advocate purchase of their teaching aids and materials. John Schmidt, Dennis Hatch and a few other pros recently used AZB to campaign for a spot on the Mosconi Cup team. Pros such as Donnie Mills, third place finisher in this year's US Open, regularly use this forum to try to solicit action matches. All of them have gotten access to the pool community not otherwise available to them by posting in these AZB parts, and in every case, they were right to post as they did.

However, AZB is not a one-way conversation. Any pro who posts is beginning a dialogue with the pool community, which consists of good guys, bad guys, and everyone in between. One advantage on AZB, however, is that anyone posting here can step away from commmicating whenever they please, simply by desisting from additional posting. When any poster, pro or not, makes that decision, it is perfectly acceptable and reasonable.

To sum, I have limitless respect for John Schmidt, but even he realizes that he got out of line on this occasion, and more power to him that he has come forth and said as much, because recogntion and learning from one's mistakes is also a sign of a champion, which is exactly what John is.
 
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sjm said:
Hi Randy. Hope you're well.

Let me open by saying that John is one of our game's true superstars, one who represents our sport well whenever he graces a tournament with his presence, and I usually find myself rooting for him to succeed, but ......

To be honest, in the thread on what it takes to be a champion, most posters agreed with John's assessment that few have even the potential to be champions. Those who didn't agree said so without using an aggressive, abrasive tone. These posters are entitled to their opinions, but, in a few cases, they were treated with disrespect and incivility for their views by John. In some cases, they responded to John's personal attacks with contempt, in other cases they just dealt with it. Regardless, John was, almost without exception, the aggressor and if the easily foreseen result of his numeorus disrepectful posts is that he no longer wishes to dwell in the AZB neighborhood, it's a decision all posters should respect. Nonetheless, the suggestion that he was driven away is nonsense. His aggressive, contemptive, disrespectful style of posting in the thread noted, quite predictably, brought out the worst in a few of our posters, and in the final analysis, if he is gone, he drove himself away.

FYI, just today, John posted an apology for his tirades, and it speaks well of him that he tried to mend things between himslef and the andful of posters with whom he had heated, unpleasant, exchanges with. Those posters have, subsequently, responded to John in a style of respect and reconciliation.

As for whether pros should post here, that all depends on what they seek. For example, John Schmidt himself and Danny Harriman have, in the past, used AZB to try to generate sales of DVDs of their 14.1 high runs. Other pros also use the forum to publicize and advocate purchase of their teaching aids and materials. John Schmidt, Dennis Hatch and a few other pros recently used AZB to campaign for a spot on the Mosconi Cup team. Pros such as Donnie Mills, third place finisher in this year's US Open, regularly use this forum to try to solicit action matches. All of them have gotten access to the pool community not otherwise available to them by posting in these AZB parts, and in every case, they were right to post as they did.

However, AZB is not a one-way conversation. Any pro who posts is beginning a dialogue with the pool community, which consists of good guys, bad guys, and everyone in between. One advantage on AZB, however, is that anyone posting here can step away from commmicating whenever they please, simply by desisting from additional posting. When any poster, pro or not, makes that decision, it is perfectly acceptable and reasonable.

To sum, I have limitless respect for John Schmidt, but even he realizes that he got out of line on this occasion, and more power to him that he has come forth and said as much, because recogntion and learning from one's mistakes is also a sign of a champion, which is exactly what John is.
Click to expand...

excellent post sjm. rep to you.

brian
 
NYC cue dude said:
First, I'd like to say that recently I haven't been posting much and hardly ever start a new thread, although I daily read the goings on here.

After reading the "what it takes to be a champion" thread and Johns subsequent leaving the forum, I feel compelled to post.

My personal experience is as follows;

I first started playing seriously in the late 80's, early nineties at Chelsea billiards in NYC. Of course I played earlier in life, but it wasn't until then that I was surrounded by shortstops, hustlers and champions.

I befriended Ginky back then, when he was a low B player. He went on to eventually become the BCA champion. He practiced more than most pros ever do. He progressed so fast though, that anyone with eyes knew underlying everythin was natural talent.

George mikula taught me how to play pool. He and I both knew I didn't have that natural talent, but he taught me because he loved my desire. He told me then that all great players had top level muscle memory abilities, eye hand coordination, and keen eyesight. He believed that just desire and hard work could NOT get just anyone across the finish line.

Now I have been blessed that I van say I've "trained" with real champions. Since 2003 I have probably played over 10,000 hours. I've probably played 1000 hours with Ginky. For a year and a half, I played EVERYDAY A MINIMUM of 8 hours a day, sometimes 12 or 13 hours, with Thorsten Hohmann. Over the last 7 years I have played a significant amount of time, as friends (not in tournaments, action or as a student), with such champions as Charlie Williams, Johnny Archer, Mika, ervolino, lipsky, barouty, and others, including John Schmidt a time or two. The time spent on the (there has been many more) table with these folks wasn't casual and I mention these folks in particular because they genuinely wanted to help improve my game. And it did. I have been fortunate being retired in my 30's that I could dedicate myself entirely to pool during this time. I started as a c player. At my best, I improved to a steady b+ player and at my very best I could play very abbreviated periods of A speed 14.1 (3 innings in a 100 point game).

All this to say that I had every advantage. Champions to play with, unlimited practice time, the best equipment and indefinite sources of pool readily shared pool knowledge. I consider myself to have above average intelligence and above average phsysical skills. I was, a long time ago, a very skilled wrestler, even competing in Olympic qualifiers. With regards to pool though, I didn't have the "natural talent", and this is why I'll never be a world champion, or a touring pro, or even a regional shortstop. Either you have it or you don't.

As an example, Thorsten played pro speed within 2 years of picking up a cue. Within 2 more years he won the world 9 ball championships. Sure he practiced, but not 10 hours a day. And come on, within 2 years playing like that????

I believ that there are many people in the US who could play pro speed pool, who will never know because they will never pick up a cue. If you have been playing a few years already, and haven't quickly progressed to a shortstop level, chances are you never will.

Sure there are the rare occurences, the seldom abberations. Tommy Kennedy comes to mind. Not a lot of talent, but more than most, who plays stellar pool for a few months straight, and snaps a big one off to become a legend. Realistically though, how many are like that out of the millions that have EVER played?

For those that chased John away, I hope your happy. Every pro that has ever posted here has been chased away, inluding Thorsten. It is true what John said, that the pros do try and persuade other pros not to post on AZ. They laugh at us and belittle us. I have personally heard it, a few different times. The way John was treated is the reason. And he was one of the few who stuck around, for whatever reason. Some here feel he was obligated to come here and teach and share his wisdom. Truth is, he's not.

I agree with JAM that John shouldn't come here anymore if the experience isn't enjoyable. That goes for any member.

Count me in the camp that's says if you don't have the inate natural talent, then there is no way to manufacture it.

Rg
Click to expand...

Good post. Sad but true for many, myself included. I have been playing for five years or so and I'm a B- or a solid C+. I've been told I'm a B but sometimes I think that's just been said. I practice maybe three times a week and play league twice a week. My practice time isn't nearly as structured as I would like and only clocking around 2 hours a session, hopefully I can get a table sometime in the not to distant future.

I do agree that one possesses little natural ability will most likely never really challenge those who do, however I believe they can become solid players worthy of some praise. Do remember Ralph Eckertt and his story that I sited in an old post but naturally this lad could not string three balls in any game. I also believe that Joe Tucker once said that he didn't possess all the natural talent but trained hard and properly and he has done quite well for himself :) I myself hope to become an A player one day but I also no that I haven't given myself the best chance to do so. With that being said I do believe a bigginer or a C- or so can evolve into a solid player if they really train to do so.

Jeff
 
Great post sjm! The bolded comments do unfortunately underscore how easy it is, sometimes, for some people to lose their cool, and say things they really don't mean...without understanding what impact it may have on the perceptions of the public at large. Fast Larry comes to mind, with these kinds of outbursts. However, FL cannot never be compared with John, as he doesn't possess even 1/10 of the talent. FL has other issues too, that cause him to get banned by most pool internet sites. I'm glad that, for whatever reason, JS decided to come back and make good with the people here that he had issues with. He and I have disagreed a time or two, but it was more, imo, a result of John misunderstanding what I was saying, rather than outright belligerant dispute. Nonetheless, I respect him highly as a professional "tournament soldier" (as JAM calls them), a favored action player, and a member of a very elite group of pros (who have run 400+ in 14.1 EVER)!

I still am embarassed that many of the top players in the sport I love mostly continue to struggle to make even a meager living (note to JS: I didn't say ALL pros...just many). I still believe that the path to a more consistent income, for most pros, lies in the direction of entertainment. People are willing to pay to be entertained. When you infuse a little bit of education, with a little bit of humor (add a dash of manners and good taste), and a good dose of skill on the table, you have a winning combination. The market for this is endless, and there are 40,000,000 people available as a target market, just in this country. How to tap this market is the big question. I have my own ideas, that have proven successful for me, over the past 15 years, and for decades before that, by many others. One small way to begin, is to do more charity work. Just yesterday I stopped in to the teen center, at the Missouri Ave. Boys & Girls Club, here in Phoenix. Even with short notice, and the opportunity to spend just an hour or two with the kids, they were completely mesmerized. I spoke of etiquette, rules, taking care of the equipment (they have donated tables, cues and balls...much of which was donated or generated from posts by CocoBolo Cowboy). I also showed some basic fundamentals, played a few games with some of the kids, and showed a few trick shots. ALL of the kids left with a better understanding of, and appreciation for, the game of pool!

It cost me nothing, other than a little bit of my time...and it has the potential to reap HUGE rewards in the future. I've been doing stuff like this, all over the country, for the past 15 years...but I'm just one person. Kids today are the future of our sport tomorrow. If every pro (whether they be tournament pro, teaching pro, or trick shot pro) reached out to their local YMCA, Boys & Girls Club, hospital, military base, or even community college, and offered even the most minimal of entertainment, our sport would grow by leaps and bounds (imo). This, in turn, could lead to better corporate sponsorship and building a real income future for professional players.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

sjm said:
Hi Randy. Hope you're well.

Let me open by saying that John is one of our game's true superstars, one who represents our sport well whenever he graces a tournament with his presence, and I usually find myself rooting for him to succeed, but ......

To be honest, in the thread on what it takes to be a champion, most posters agreed with John's assessment that few have even the potential to be champions. Those who didn't agree said so without using an aggressive, abrasive tone. These posters are entitled to their opinions, but, in a few cases, they were treated with disrespect and incivility for their views by John. In some cases, they responded to John's personal attacks with contempt, in other cases they just dealt with it. Regardless, John was, almost without exception, the aggressor and if the easily foreseen result of his numeorus disrepectful posts is that he no longer wishes to dwell in the AZB neighborhood, it's a decision all posters should respect. Nonetheless, the suggestion that he was driven away is nonsense. His aggressive, contemptive, disrespectful style of posting in the thread noted, quite predictably, brought out the worst in a few of our posters, and in the final analysis, if he is gone, he drove himself away.
FYI, just today, John posted an apology for his tirades, and it speaks well of him that he tried to mend things between himslef and the andful of posters with whom he had heated, unpleasant, exchanges with. Those posters have, subsequently, responded to John in a style of respect and reconciliation.

As for whether pros should post here, that all depends on what they seek. For example, John Schmidt himself and Danny Harriman have, in the past, used AZB to try to generate sales of DVDs of their 14.1 high runs. Other pros also use the forum to publicize and advocate purchase of their teaching aids and materials. John Schmidt, Dennis Hatch and a few other pros recently used AZB to campaign for a spot on the Mosconi Cup team. Pros such as Donnie Mills, third place finisher in this year's US Open, regularly use this forum to try to solicit action matches. All of them have gotten access to the pool community not otherwise available to them by posting in these AZB parts, and in every case, they were right to post as they did.

However, AZB is not a one-way conversation. Any pro who posts is beginning a dialogue with the pool community, which consists of good guys, bad guys, and everyone in between. One advantage on AZB, however, is that anyone posting here can step away from commmicating whenever they please, simply by desisting from additional posting. When any poster, pro or not, makes that decision, it is perfectly acceptable and reasonable.

To sum, I have limitless respect for John Schmidt, but even he realizes that he got out of line on this occasion, and more power to him that he has come forth and said as much, because recogntion and learning from one's mistakes is also a sign of a champion, which is exactly what John is.
Click to expand...
 
Scott Lee said:
Great post sjm! The bolded comments do unfortunately underscore how easy it is, sometimes, for some people to lose their cool, and say things they really don't mean...without understanding what impact it may have on the perceptions of the public at large. Fast Larry comes to mind, with these kinds of outbursts. However, FL cannot never be compared with John, as he doesn't possess even 1/10 of the talent. FL has other issues too, that cause him to get banned by most pool internet sites. I'm glad that, for whatever reason, JS decided to come back and make good with the people here that he had issues with. He and I have disagreed a time or two, but it was more, imo, a result of John misunderstanding what I was saying, rather than outright belligerant dispute. Nonetheless, I respect him highly as a professional "tournament soldier" (as JAM calls them), a favored action player, and a member of a very elite group of pros (who have run 400+ in 14.1 EVER)!

I still am embarassed that many of the top players in the sport I love mostly continue to struggle to make even a meager living (note to JS: I didn't say ALL pros...just many). I still believe that the path to a more consistent income, for most pros, lies in the direction of entertainment. People are willing to pay to be entertained. When you infuse a little bit of education, with a little bit of humor (add a dash of manners and good taste), and a good dose of skill on the table, you have a winning combination. The market for this is endless, and there are 40,000,000 people available as a target market, just in this country. How to tap this market is the big question. I have my own ideas, that have proven successful for me, over the past 15 years, and for decades before that, by many others. One small way to begin, is to do more charity work. Just yesterday I stopped in to the teen center, at the Missouri Ave. Boys & Girls Club, here in Phoenix. Even with short notice, and the opportunity to spend just an hour or two with the kids, they were completely mesmerized. I spoke of etiquette, rules, taking care of the equipment (they have donated tables, cues and balls...much of which was donated or generated from posts by CocoBolo Cowboy). I also showed some basic fundamentals, played a few games with some of the kids, and showed a few trick shots. ALL of the kids left with a better understanding of, and appreciation for, the game of pool!

It cost me nothing, other than a little bit of my time...and it has the potential to reap HUGE rewards in the future. I've been doing stuff like this, all over the country, for the past 15 years...but I'm just one person. Kids today are the future of our sport tomorrow. If every pro (whether they be tournament pro, teaching pro, or trick shot pro) reached out to their local YMCA, Boys & Girls Club, hospital, military base, or even community college, and offered even the most minimal of entertainment, our sport would grow by leaps and bounds (imo). This, in turn, could lead to better corporate sponsorship and building a real income future for professional players.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

excellent post scott. unfortunately pool hasnt exactly figured out yet the all professional sports are really entertainment. when pro pool figures out how to be entertaining to its fan base then it will grow.

also you have provide a great example of how to really "give back to the game"

brian
 
NYC cue dude said:
First, I'd like to say that recently I haven't been posting much and hardly ever start a new thread, although I daily read the goings on here.

After reading the "what it takes to be a champion" thread and Johns subsequent leaving the forum, I feel compelled to post.

My personal experience is as follows;

I first started playing seriously in the late 80's, early nineties at Chelsea billiards in NYC. Of course I played earlier in life, but it wasn't until then that I was surrounded by shortstops, hustlers and champions.

I befriended Ginky back then, when he was a low B player. He went on to eventually become the BCA champion. He practiced more than most pros ever do. He progressed so fast though, that anyone with eyes knew underlying everythin was natural talent.

George mikula taught me how to play pool. He and I both knew I didn't have that natural talent, but he taught me because he loved my desire. He told me then that all great players had top level muscle memory abilities, eye hand coordination, and keen eyesight. He believed that just desire and hard work could NOT get just anyone across the finish line.

Now I have been blessed that I van say I've "trained" with real champions. Since 2003 I have probably played over 10,000 hours. I've probably played 1000 hours with Ginky. For a year and a half, I played EVERYDAY A MINIMUM of 8 hours a day, sometimes 12 or 13 hours, with Thorsten Hohmann. Over the last 7 years I have played a significant amount of time, as friends (not in tournaments, action or as a student), with such champions as Charlie Williams, Johnny Archer, Mika, ervolino, lipsky, barouty, and others, including John Schmidt a time or two. The time spent on the (there has been many more) table with these folks wasn't casual and I mention these folks in particular because they genuinely wanted to help improve my game. And it did. I have been fortunate being retired in my 30's that I could dedicate myself entirely to pool during this time. I started as a c player. At my best, I improved to a steady b+ player and at my very best I could play very abbreviated periods of A speed 14.1 (3 innings in a 100 point game).

All this to say that I had every advantage. Champions to play with, unlimited practice time, the best equipment and indefinite sources of pool readily shared pool knowledge. I consider myself to have above average intelligence and above average phsysical skills. I was, a long time ago, a very skilled wrestler, even competing in Olympic qualifiers. With regards to pool though, I didn't have the "natural talent", and this is why I'll never be a world champion, or a touring pro, or even a regional shortstop. Either you have it or you don't.

As an example, Thorsten played pro speed within 2 years of picking up a cue. Within 2 more years he won the world 9 ball championships. Sure he practiced, but not 10 hours a day. And come on, within 2 years playing like that????

I believ that there are many people in the US who could play pro speed pool, who will never know because they will never pick up a cue. If you have been playing a few years already, and haven't quickly progressed to a shortstop level, chances are you never will.

Sure there are the rare occurences, the seldom abberations. Tommy Kennedy comes to mind. Not a lot of talent, but more than most, who plays stellar pool for a few months straight, and snaps a big one off to become a legend. Realistically though, how many are like that out of the millions that have EVER played?

For those that chased John away, I hope your happy. Every pro that has ever posted here has been chased away, inluding Thorsten. It is true what John said, that the pros do try and persuade other pros not to post on AZ. They laugh at us and belittle us. I have personally heard it, a few different times. The way John was treated is the reason. And he was one of the few who stuck around, for whatever reason. Some here feel he was obligated to come here and teach and share his wisdom. Truth is, he's not.

I agree with JAM that John shouldn't come here anymore if the experience isn't enjoyable. That goes for any member.

Count me in the camp that's says if you don't have the inate natural talent, then there is no way to manufacture it.

Rg
Click to expand...


I have been lucky enough to have the similar resources, playing champions as long as I could stand, lessions from them for as many hours, all the time/equipment. No restrictions like a job, girl, etc to interfer with my time I can and do put into my game. And I play ok. Then I see Mike Deschaine who 18 months ago was kinda green play and he had so much fire power in him, everything works for him and he is getting better and better.

you cant train in what God left out. Dosent stop me from paying my dues, I'll play for as long as I can. My back hasnt helped-but its not why I'm not a champion. I just wasnt born with talent for pool, once in a while I do catch a gear, where my mind connects with my body 100% and I do play real good-but that might only happen 2-3 times a year.
 
hi

Scott Lee said:
Great post sjm! The bolded comments do unfortunately underscore how easy it is, sometimes, for some people to lose their cool, and say things they really don't mean...without understanding what impact it may have on the perceptions of the public at large. Fast Larry comes to mind, with these kinds of outbursts. However, FL cannot never be compared with John, as he doesn't possess even 1/10 of the talent. FL has other issues too, that cause him to get banned by most pool internet sites. I'm glad that, for whatever reason, JS decided to come back and make good with the people here that he had issues with. He and I have disagreed a time or two, but it was more, imo, a result of John misunderstanding what I was saying, rather than outright belligerant dispute. Nonetheless, I respect him highly as a professional "tournament soldier" (as JAM calls them), a favored action player, and a member of a very elite group of pros (who have run 400+ in 14.1 EVER)!

I still am embarassed that many of the top players in the sport I love mostly continue to struggle to make even a meager living (note to JS: I didn't say ALL pros...just many). I still believe that the path to a more consistent income, for most pros, lies in the direction of entertainment. People are willing to pay to be entertained. When you infuse a little bit of education, with a little bit of humor (add a dash of manners and good taste), and a good dose of skill on the table, you have a winning combination. The market for this is endless, and there are 40,000,000 people available as a target market, just in this country. How to tap this market is the big question. I have my own ideas, that have proven successful for me, over the past 15 years, and for decades before that, by many others. One small way to begin, is to do more charity work. Just yesterday I stopped in to the teen center, at the Missouri Ave. Boys & Girls Club, here in Phoenix. Even with short notice, and the opportunity to spend just an hour or two with the kids, they were completely mesmerized. I spoke of etiquette, rules, taking care of the equipment (they have donated tables, cues and balls...much of which was donated or generated from posts by CocoBolo Cowboy). I also showed some basic fundamentals, played a few games with some of the kids, and showed a few trick shots. ALL of the kids left with a better understanding of, and appreciation for, the game of pool!

It cost me nothing, other than a little bit of my time...and it has the potential to reap HUGE rewards in the future. I've been doing stuff like this, all over the country, for the past 15 years...but I'm just one person. Kids today are the future of our sport tomorrow. If every pro (whether they be tournament pro, teaching pro, or trick shot pro) reached out to their local YMCA, Boys & Girls Club, hospital, military base, or even community college, and offered even the most minimal of entertainment, our sport would grow by leaps and bounds (imo). This, in turn, could lead to better corporate sponsorship and building a real income future for professional players.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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is their a reason for the bold red letters where sjm tells me im outta line. just curious if your trying to give me a hard time or what. just asking
also in past our differences was not from me misunderstading your posts. i just took some of what you said as condecending. i could be wrong but thats how i took it.

we dont need to go back and forth on this.
i simply will figure if you quote people chastising me with bold red letters,that you are going out of your way to start problems and at least i will know where i stand.
if you remove the bold red than i figure your trying to diffuse the issue and either way we can go from there.
thanks for the consideration scott much appreciated from my end.
p.s. honestly i cant tell if sjm put the bold in there or you did but if its you i have faith you will do the professional thing and remove the red.
 
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Not at all John. Just pointing out that all of us, have at times, lost our cool, and said things we really didn't mean...usually without thinking through what the possible consequences could be. You're an established professional player, who is now part of a sponsored group, doing exhibitions in the public eye. As such, you now have a higher responsibility not to let your temper get the best of you. It doesn't showcase your talents in the best light. It's now not just about you, but you AND the other three guys (you're a team), where any action by one, is understandably casting a shadow on the group. I wish you, Hillbilly, Corey, and Earl the best in the new CSI Grand Masters Tour!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

john schmidt said:
is their a reason for the bold red letters where sjm tells me im outta line. just curious if your trying to give me a hard time or what.
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Scott Lee said:
Not at all John. Just pointing out that all of us, have at times, lost our cool, and said things we really didn't mean...usually without thinking through what the possible consequences could be. You're an established professional player, who is now part of a sponsored group, doing exhibitions in the public eye. As such, you now have a higher responsibility not to let your temper get the best of you. It doesn't showcase your talents in the best light. It's now not just about you, but you AND the other three guys (you're a team), where any action by one, is understandably casting a shadow on the group. I wish you, Hillbilly, Corey, and Earl the best in the new CSI Grand Masters Tour!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

exactly my point. i showed my ass for sure and lost my cool.
i made team csi look bad and by going out of your way to make big red letters you are not helping the situation.
so you are not removing the red therefore i know where i stand.
 
I think it's over you guys, people have made up and moved on.

No reason to poke the dog.

At the end of the day, we are all human, and we are not
perfect and we make mistakes and we say we are sorry
and we learn from it.

So let's just let it go, hug and move on to a better tomorrow.

lots of hugs
mrs.g
 
The best player in my area in the last 10 plus years went from B player to national junior champion, ran a 128 in 14.1, and a six pack in nine ball in 2 years.

Draws the ball almost as good as Nevel sometimes. Guys who have been playing 40 years, played at Cochrans against legends of the game, etc... had no chance against him before he was 17.

Many people can become excellent players, and even beat pros on rare occasions, but in every game like pool, golf, etc...there are people who just seem to have a special natural talent.

John also shoots low 60's golf sometimes, or used to anyway. That is a level of hand eye coordination thats probably one in a million. The legendary gambler Don Willis seemed to be this kind of guy also.

To me, they seem to have a little bit of that genius some autistic people have where they look at a building and then go home and draw it 99% accurate. There is just no way to teach that kind of innate skill.
 
John,

you of all people need to be apart of this forum, especially the 14.1 forum.

you are a true talent and a true diplomat of the game......

besides that you can play a little....LOL


i wish all would work out and you would rejoin us in the 14.1 forum, your knowledge and assistance is greetly needed and appreciated over there.

Steve

so you heard about my 108 huh ?

look me up on Facebook ! i am on Dennis Walsh's page.......
 
This thread is exactly the type of intercourse the forums at AZ were set up to allow! Cue Dude and SJM both have contributed much to the pool scene in the states. I have deep respect for both their opinions.

The "pros" I know have a single shared trait. Absolute belief in themselves to the point of not understanding why all others around them do not kowtow to them. Concurrently, Ralf, Efren and one or two others have so much personal strength they don't seem to need outside approval.

For one day, I would love to have the talent to be the best pool player in the world. I wonder what type of person I would be!

Lyn
 
I don't know why everyone is on John's nuts. So he lost his cool - big deal. He manned-up and apolgized. Every single poster on this board over the years have lost their cool (me included, a few times). Seems to me everyone is keeps rehashing it after an apology.

To say John is held to a higher standard is a little unfair. Every pro from every sport loses their cool and there's billions of dollars on the line - not $100k or something. Between football players shooting people, basket ball players raping someone, golfers banging night club managers (or playing a round fall-down-drunk), etc, what did John REALLY do wrong? So, he told some of you to "eat shit" on an online forum... HA.... whoopty do. Next time you see him...throw him a wink and tell him to eat shit back--- I'm sure you'll each get a good laugh out of it.

I mean.... this IS a pool player's forum and not www.cross-stitching.com, right? If any of you are appalled when someone tells ya off, I guess you've never been in a poolhall.

I dunno... I'm just trying to figure out what the hooplah is all about.
 
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