AzB Gold Member
Allison Fisher has a pendulum stroke afaik.
And you think that you have a "stroke" !!!!
Nobody is perfect !!!!!!!
Since you are back to name calling and insults. And offer nothing of any real value to any actual thinking person, you can stick it where the sun don't shine, and feel free to use any stroke you want to, just make sure you extend the follow through. You are back on ignore.
Lots of pros do. If you don't think so, you don't know what a pendulum stroke is (not you, Joey). It's simply not dropping your elbow before contact with the CB.
The cue can be at any angle. As long as the forearm is perpendicular to the cue at address, and the tip is fairly close to the CB at address, the tip will hit the CB extremely close to the desired contact point, and move in a very straight line before and after contact, with the motion being in the direction the cue is pointing (elevated or not).The model, like the one PJ posted, has the cue level & not angled as would most often be the caseFor those interested, I just did a careful and detailed analysis of how the tip moves during a pure pendulum stroke. Here it is:
TP B.18 - Pendulum Stroke Cue Tip Trajectory
Check out the trajectory plots and calculations starting at the bottom of the 2nd page. The tip trajectory into the CB and during the initial follow through after the CB separates from the tip is extremely straight. The vertical motion of the tip over the 4 inches closest to the CB (2 inches on either side) is about a hundredth of an inch (about 1/3 of a mm)!!!
The equations derived can also be used to check any combinations of forearm length, bridge length and grip-bridge separation distance.
Check it out,
The point of the analysis was to show that the motion of the tip is very straight with a pure pendulum stroke. The results clearly show this. Obviously, if one bends or flexes the wrist, or changes grip pressure, or manipulates the cue with the fingers, or moves the body, or chicken-wings the elbow, or swoops, or does anything else other than a pure pendulum stroke, the results would change (the tip contact point won't be as accurate, and the tip motion won't be as straight); but as others have pointed out, these things can affect the straightness of any stroke.& it too has a single pivot point for the hand & with no wrist & that too is not usually the case in reality.
In case we needed more evidence that you don't know what a pendulum stroke is...
New flash for you- I know that. That is why I made the posts earlier that I did, you know, the ones you didn't bother to read. And, just to help you keep up, my pendulum posts were in response to another talking about it. Threads do sidetrack, you know.
I'll never be subtle again. It's HIjack, not sidetrack - you are one of the worst offenders.
Dale(Captain of the On Topic Police)
Well, 'short' is a relative word. I'm 5'7" and I'm considered tall. LOL
First, just to be clear, I don't like the term 'pendulum stroke' so I will use 'rigid upper arm stroke'. IMO, neither perfectly describes the actual stroke but I think mine comes a little closer --- just to let you know what I mean when I use that term.
If you're going to use the rigid upper arm stroke for any given shot, then I think you should consider fully committing to it from beginning to end. That includes the finishing position of the tip on a downward angle. Using that stroke and then dropping your shoulder to avoid the downward finish can cause some problems. It can result in two separate strokes. It may not feel like two strokes but I've seen it happen where the player hits the ball and there is the slightest of pauses followed by shoulder drop and a level follow through. After all, you are changing from one muscle group to another.
The problem with that is that the main stroke has already ended with an abbreviated follow through. I have found that an abbreviated follow-through is an indication of a poorly-timed stroke. So then you would be getting into issues with your stroke timing.
Also, your planned shoulder drop can begin unintentionally before or right at contact, changing the place the tip hits the ball, which wouldn't be a good thing.
If you're going to drop your shoulder, you should do it in a continuous motion with intent --- or as they call it here --- the piston stroke.
(A very slight shoulder drop after impact is not what we're discussing here. I'm talking about shoulder drop with intent to keep the cue level after impact.)
I use both strokes, mostly the rigid upper arm stroke, but I also drop my shoulder when I feel it warrants it.
The best post I've ever read in this forum.
Your first paragraph is correct. We pull the cue back using the triceps (elbow extends), then pause (some longer than others), and then push the cue forward using the biceps (elbow flexes). There are variations of this (straight back/straight through vs pure pendulum vs the loopy, almost windup-like motions you see with S. Frost/Busty) but basically this is the ONLY way to execute a standard pool stroke.......one can add some extra uumph using the wrist and some use the elbow drop (provided by shoulder flexion).
Since they are situated opposite from one another in the upper arm, when the biceps contract, the triceps relax and vice versa. This is called opposing muscles, both cannot contract simultaneously and still have movement of the forearm: one must relax for the other to contract.
In regards to your second paragraph, we can use the biceps for a pulling activity.....like when doing a pull up. And we can use the triceps for pushing.....like when pushing someone away from yourself. But for the pool stroke, the triceps pull and the biceps push.
Hunter Lombardo uses a pendulum stroke.....although the shot below is a soft shot, he does this on all shots except maybe a power draw.
Darren Appleton uses a pendulum stroke.
Alex Pagulayan uses a pendulum stroke.
Chris Melling uses a pendulum stroke. He takes some of the arc out of the back swing by pulling the cue more straight back which causes a slight elbow drop at the end of the back swing.
Niels Feijen has a pendulum stroke......no video needed.
The quality of players coming out these days just keep getting better and better. The winning play is trending toward the player with the best fundamentals. Soon, players like Busty/Efren/Frost with their loopy/loosey goosey strokes, will be a thing of the past. In 20 years if you don't have a laser-like straight stroke with rock solid, near text book fundamentals (see snooker players below), you'll have no shot at winning major tournaments.
Below is S. Frost. Notice on this quick front on shot the up/down motions of his grip hand/elbow..........this is all provided by flexion/extension of a fixed shoulder (the shoulder and head are stationary, the movement is from rotation of the head of the humerus in the joint space).
Busty is similar but with a lot of added wrist action. Notice the up/down elbow during the stroke.....disappears on the last stroke.