Is Mike Sigel the best ever?

I mentioned in another thread a while ago that Hopkins said that nobody beat Sigel more than Sigel beat them. Coming from a man who doesn't like to admit anyone played better than him, that's a strong comment. I believe him.
 
jamesroberts said:
Hi Mr Incardona, I am trying to learn to play 1 pocket and I was wondering if you have made any videos on the subject.thanks
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I made a onepocket video with accustats about 10 years ago that is available through accustats. 1-800-828-0397
 
IMO the only reason Mike S doesn't have more World Championship titles than Earl S. is because Mike S quit playing much earlier than Earl.

Mike is truely one of the best pool players of all time... and should always be included in anyone's list of top 10 players.

Best player ever? My choice would be Greenleaf..
 
jay helfert said:
...And Sigel was never the best gambler at any of the games. I doubt he would ever have played Buddy One Pocket for the cash, and definitely not Efren.
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LOL, wasn't Sigel the one who had the famous quote that went something like "Why would I want to play the Lone Ranger when I can't even beat Tonto?" after losing to Parica and then being asked if he was going to play Efren? I can't remember where I heard that story, but it sounds like something Mike would say. :)

Aaron
 
wrldpro said:
Is Mike Sigel the best ever?
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As a fan who started getting interested in pool in the early 80's, I have no problem saying, "yes."

I don't say it from a professional player's perspective, but just from an observation perspective and an effort to somehow compare eras. In a time where a bulk of modern day Hall of Famers were at their peak, Sigel was number one. Not just for a little time like some are suggesting. He dominated in the late 70's and most of the 80's. He was getting bored with pool by the mid to late 80's, and it showed.

But, he was the best player in the "second golden age" of pool that included the legends of my time: Rempe, Hall, Hopkins, Varner, Reyes, Strickland...

Fred <~~~ just one man's opinion, which means nothing
 
mike was amazing!

* i probably played more with mike than anyone in the early70s in rochester. we played 14.1 cause i didnt have a chance at any other game!i remember the night that larry hubard took him from terrace garden pool room to the road. larry was the smartest hustler i ever knew and had all the spots and players in the country in this little book. he was the mastermind behind seigle. he put up the money and made the games. they made a hell of a pair! larry was world class also and we are friends to this day.*i have seen mike do some incredable things on a pool table! lot of people didnt think he knew one pocket but he was so talented ! he put the rock anywhere he wanted! * little story...he loves to fish and i was a guide and charter capt up there for 25 yrs. i would take mike and his family out all the timeon my boat, but in feb and march when the streams thaw the big rainbow trout entered the streams to spawn and i would take mike with me. i worked 3rd shift so we went every morning for 3 weeks.* now this is tough fishing walking the cold, snow and ice covered banks looking for trout. your hands and feet freeze and you just get tired! well every friday mike got on a plane and played in a major tourny somewhere, i dont remember where but he won all three! these all paid over $5000. it must have been late 80s cause i think thay put him over 100 major wins. now get this....he never hit a ball all week after fishing all day in those conditions! that is crazy but true! in fact he never praticed in rochester after he became a big name player.i tryed to get him on the table but he always said no.* i also think he was the best allround player but not the best ever.ill keep my picks to myself . mike is still a friend so ill keep out of the best business.he is in the top 5 though and i also have played with all of the champions over the last 45 years. even played a exibition with mosconi in sandiago , while in the navy in 1968! i ran 68 on him on a 5by10 he ran 65 and 60 and out! he also had 2 125 and outs that week! there was my other pick for top 5!*ok, thats my story, and i have many more on mike and larry.
 
One of lines Mr. Incardona offers in this Excellent video is....it goes something like this....

When you can't apply any of what you've learned from this video... just slam the balls as best you can.... you might get lucky and sink one in your pocket... but the worst thing that can happen, you lose.... and upwards from that... the table has changed...

One of my favorite videos... loaned to another 1pk player years ago and never returned...


wincardona said:
I made a onepocket video with accustats about 10 years ago that is available through accustats. 1-800-828-0397
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with these 'best ever' discussions the debate can be endless. but sigel probably has made the strongest case out of the top players, along with efren.

you really can't say conclusively that mike wasn't the best ever. because if anybody is, there's a good chance it's him.
 
ginsu said:
For all around (all games) it would be hard to top Nick Varner.
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Nick was perhaps the second best all around player in the Sigel era. He was right there with Rempe, Hopkins and the mighty Miz. Jimmy Fusco was not far behind this group.

I would rate them as follows for All Around ability,
1. Mike Sigel
2. Nick Varner
3. Steve Mizerak
4. Buddy Hall
5. Allen Hopkins
6. Jim Rempe
7. Jimmy Fusco

Sigel, Hall, Varner and Fusco could play high speed Banks. The others did not.
Buddy preferred not to play any 14.1.
Mizerak was better than Sigel at 14.1, and anyone else too.
Sigel and Varner were the most solid at all four games.
All these guys were great players!
 
jay helfert said:
Agreed! Mike is certainly in the top ten all time, but number one I'm not so sure. I will say this, Mike could play ALL games, 9-Ball, One Pocket, 14.1 and Banks. In his prime, he was the best all around player, with Mizerak and Buddy close behind. Buddy didn't play 14.1 and Miz didn't play Banks. Not that they couldn't play these games, they just didn't. Sigel played all games at the highest level.

Talking pure pool ability, Parica and Efren may have been more talented. Getting down in the trenches and playing for serious cash, Parica was the best ever IMO. Believe me, the great Sigel ducked him more than once. At One Pocket only Efren could be considered a favorite over Mike. At 9-Ball in tournaments, Earl was his equal and may have had more firepower. At 14.1 Sigel reigned supreme for years.

I still think Harold Worst was the best pool player I ever saw, and Parica second. I'm talking about a combination of ability, heart and desire. Worst and Parica would never give up. Of course, Sigel wouldn't either. The more I think about it, the more I like Sigel overall. He played ALL games great, and did know how to win. He just couldn't beat Parica or Buddy for the cheese. I know that and so does he.
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I definitley agree, especially about Parica. His tournament record for wins isnt that great, but he has won some major back room matches that you may not have heard of. Parica always said he thought he played better than Efren when they were both in dead punch.

Southpaw
 
jay helfert said:
Nick was perhaps the second best all around player in the Sigel era. He was right there with Rempe, Hopkins and the mighty Miz. Jimmy Fusco was not far behind this group.

I would rate them as follows for All Around ability,
....

7. Jimmy Fusco

Sigel, Hall, Varner and Fusco could play high speed Banks.
...

All these guys were great players!
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And to that point, Jimmy Fusco isn't mentioned enough when we talk about BCA Hall of Fame voting.

Fred
 
I don't know about all games, but Jerry McWorter asked Efren Reyes who was the toughest player he ever played in 9 ball while they were doing commentary on an Accu-stats match and Efren didn't hesitate and said "Mike Sigel" was the toughest player he'd played.

James
 
jay helfert said:
You're my favorite player even if you never make a ball. :D
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phew....

Anyways, I have asked Parica a few times about him playing Efren & he gets very agitated & doesn't hesitate to tell you that he beat Efren everywhere all over the Phillipines.

I still think that Efren is the best all around player ever. Guess if Sigel had played more years, I would have seen more of it and might have a different opinion but he gave up too soon.
 
watchez said:
phew....

Anyways, I have asked Parica a few times about him playing Efren & he gets very agitated & doesn't hesitate to tell you that he beat Efren everywhere all over the Phillipines.

I still think that Efren is the best all around player ever. Guess if Sigel had played more years, I would have seen more of it and might have a different opinion but he gave up too soon.
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the thing that seperates efren from everybody else is his mental game. to keep up his focus, desire, and confidence all these years when the likes of sigel, earl, buddy fell by the wayside for one reason or another. Efren is a great great player but he has no more ability than sigel, or earl, or a few other top players. but his mental game is astounding. as you get older you should get better as a player, and the only thing that prevents that is the mental doubts that creep in as you age. efren has avoided the mental pitfalls magnificently and thats why even at this ripe old age you can still make a case for him being the best player in the world.
 
wincardona said:
Jay I commend you for your loyalty sticking with west coast players,particularly Keith and Ronnie,but remember one thing as was mentioned in the picture The Cincinnati Kid "as long as Sigels around their second best"
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Hello, Billy again! :D I had to respond to your post.

Mike was a great 4 1/2 by 9 player. Back then, I believe in my heart if I could have broken the balls like Earl and Bustamante, Mike Sigel could have got the 8 and 9, but seeing as so I didn't have a good break, the game was close. It was close with even a bad break.

When you play people racing to 11 and go oh for 9 on the break and the score is 10-10 or 10-9, what's that tell you? That happened to me all the time.

But now if we go to the bar tables, 3 1/2 by 7, 4 by 8 especially, where I could break the balls, Sigel had no chance to beat me. It wouldn't have even been a contest. He tried it once, after he ducked me for years, with Larry Hubbart where I gave Mike Sigel the last 2. We were playing 7 ahead sets for 3 grand a set, I believe. I think Mike had 5 games at one time. The 2 sets were over within 2 hours. Mike hit the deck. Then Larry Hubbart got up there. I gave Larry the 8 and 9, a session for 6 dimes, and that session took about an hour, maybe hour and a half. This happened at Nutty Neros.

Then Larry Hubbart proceeded to go to Oklahoma City or Punkett City and played even with David Matlock on a bar table and happened to beat David. So where would that put me? Does everybody remember that?

Louie Roberts was a great player, and I loved Louie, but I had to give Louie the call 8 every time we played. As far as shotmaking, pound for pound, Louie had to be one of the best shotmakers of all times, and I believe Louie was a better shotmaker than Sigel. Sigel knew more pool, but he couldn't come with that shot for that money like Louie.

And to be perfectly honest, Billy, when Sigel, Louie, and I were playing, I'd take me over both of them coming with that shot for that big dough, any time, any day. I just thought I would put my 2 cents in, being that my name was brought up.

As far as knowledge of playing pool, Mike Sigel wins that one, but as far as the shot-making and gambling and being able to make that shot for the big dough, I'm not going to take a back seat to Sigel being the Cinncinati Kid second best. Sorry. In fact, I believe Louie and I were both better than Mike Sigel in that department. :)
 
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