Is Mike Sigel the best ever?

buddy and a blud

bud green said:
I'd be curious to know what years Buddy played with a Blud.

Sigel had a whole article and cover picture (Billiards Digest?) called "Give me a reason" or something like that where he explained the money just wasn't enough reason to travel around anymore. He spent more time making cues than playing.
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Buddy started playing with one of my cues, in 1981, and played untill 1994.

Buddy showed up in Houston and parked his motor home in my drive and camped out untill I built him his first cue, we went to Alvin, Texas, played in a tournament, he got second, and the next 3 he finished first, and continued playing, untill I sold out, Bludworth custom cues.
Were still the best of friends, talk off and on, but I've retired from pool, and miss all of you guys. I will be back at the APA, in August at the riveria. It will most likley be my last tourney.. Steak house is doing great, and were going to take a trip to Europe soon after.
blud
 
Keith McCready said:
Hello, Billy again! :D I had to respond to your post.

Mike was a great 4 1/2 by 9 player. Back then, I believe in my heart if I could have broken the balls like Earl and Bustamante, Mike Sigel could have got the 8 and 9, but seeing as so I didn't have a good break, the game was close. It was close with even a bad break.

When you play people racing to 11 and go oh for 9 on the break and the score is 10-10 or 10-9, what's that tell you? That happened to me all the time.

But now if we go to the bar tables, 3 1/2 by 7, 4 by 8 especially, where I could break the balls, Sigel had no chance to beat me. It wouldn't have even been a contest. He tried it once, after he ducked me for years, with Larry Hubbart where I gave Mike Sigel the last 2. We were playing 7 ahead sets for 3 grand a set, I believe. I think Mike had 5 games at one time. The 2 sets were over within 2 hours. Mike hit the deck. Then Larry Hubbart got up there. I gave Larry the 8 and 9, a session for 6 dimes, and that session took about an hour, maybe hour and a half. This happened at Nutty Neros.

Then Larry Hubbart proceeded to go to Oklahoma City or Punkett City and played even with David Matlock on a bar table and happened to beat David. So where would that put me? Does everybody remember that?

Louie Roberts was a great player, and I loved Louie, but I had to give Louie the call 8 every time we played. As far as shotmaking, pound for pound, Louie had to be one of the best shotmakers of all times, and I believe Louie was a better shotmaker than Sigel. Sigel knew more pool, but he couldn't come with that shot for that money like Louie.

And to be perfectly honest, Billy, when Sigel, Louie, and I were playing, I'd take me over both of them coming with that shot for that big dough, any time, any day. I just thought I would put my 2 cents in, being that my name was brought up.

As far as knowledge of playing pool, Mike Sigel wins that one, but as far as the shot-making and gambling and being able to make that shot for the big dough, I'm not going to take a back seat to Sigel being the Cinncinati Kid second best. Sorry. In fact, I believe Louie and I were both better than Mike Sigel in that department. :)
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Keith has spoken,
zipmouth.gif
 
Terry Ardeno said:
Spider,
Right you are. But, besides those 3 you mentioned, there are three more living players who have runs of 400+....
Earl has run 406, although, much as I love him, he's not really a 14.1 player.
Dallas West has a high run of 420.
Thorsten Hohman has a high run of 404.
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Add also Ray Martin with a 426. That makes

Schmidt
Hopkins
Engert
Martin
Strickland
West
Hohmann
 
p1noy said:
Can anybody shed some light on why Mike S quit pool early?
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Money, or the lack thereof, in the pro game. He said it just wasn't worth the effort anymore, and that losing was always very hard on him and the winning didn't make up for it, especially monetarily.

There is a great interview (conducted by Billy Incardona and Jose Garcia) with him at the end of his 14.1 match against Nick Varner at the 2000 U.S. Open 14.1 (a great match, btw) where he talks at some length about why he quit, and about learning the game, especially straight pool. It's a great match and interview that I highly recommend.
 
DrawtheRock said:
Jay, lets also remember that Efren played rotation very well and could even play some 3 cushion billiards
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I just don't like Efren in an All Around with the guys I mentioned. Of course, we know how good he was at 9-Ball, and he became the One Pocket master. His 14.1 play remains suspect and he recently has become a solid Bank pool player. Amazing but Efren seems to improve in one area just as he is losing ground in another.

Even given his consummate skills, I would rate him below my list of seven on all around ability. But not by far. Present day, he may be a match for anyone playing all four games. What about it John? Want to give the old man a shot at a Pool Shootout?
 
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Bob Jewett said:
Add also Ray Martin with a 426. That makes

Schmidt
Hopkins
Engert
Martin
Strickland
West
Hohmann
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Are you sure all these guys ran over 400? Earl??? Dallas?? Allen?
When did Ray run his big number? And what about Thorsten?

The only ones I've heard verification on were Engert and Schmidt.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Add also Ray Martin with a 426. That makes

Schmidt
Hopkins
Engert
Martin
Strickland
West
Hohmann
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Bob,
The last update I had on "Cool Cat" was 382. I didn't know he had surpassed that. Coming from you, I'll just update my stats without verifying another source. I believe & trust your numbers.
 
jay helfert said:
Are you sure all these guys ran over 400? Earl??? Dallas?? Allen?
When did Ray run his big number? And what about Thorsten?

The only ones I've heard verification on were Engert and Schmidt.
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I am sure about Hohmann, West and Hopkins. I did not know Ray, legendary three time world champion, had run 400, and this is the first I've heard of it.
 
sjm said:
I am sure about Hohmann, West and Hopkins. I did not know Ray, legendary three time world champion, had run 400, and this is the first I've heard of it.
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Okay, so now only Earl and Ray are in doubt. At least in my mind. I've known Ray forever, and this is the first time I heard he ran a 400.
 
Hall of Famer, won 11 out of 22 pro events in 1989, won world championships in 8-ball, 9-ball, one pocket, straight pool,etc...

Nick Varner is one of the greatest of all time and every serious pool fan knows this.

He's so far beyond having to prove himself at this point its ridiculous.

Great player, class act, credit to the game. What more of a resume do you need?
 
Oh, sorry Terry I must ve skipped your post about Earl. And I thought he is too much of a shotmaker if you know what I mean. I slightly remember something from an old interview...

406 by a 9-baller, wow!
 
Keith McCready said:
Don't worry, I'll be back! :D

When I was playing at Oak Park, it wasn't the easiest pool room to play in, and I wasn't playing my A game there. I was actually playing a lot better before I got there, but I did play some decent pool there.

That was a nice pool room, wasn't it? I will never forget those days. Old Red Fox, Jonsey, Al Sherman, Bulldog Jerry, I remember those guys like it was yesteday. Did you know Jerry just died? I think he was 82 or thereabouts.

I'll say one thing about the Rack. They would put a bet under your ass, and I believe as far as pressure, there has never, ever been a pool room that had as much pressure as that pool room, if you know what I mean! :D
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Two days before Jerry "Bulldog" Howard's death, in about February 2008, I walked into Hall of Fame Billiards and immediately saw a small crowd near the 5 X 10 snooker table. Next I saw Jerry, with his Predator cue and the glove on. That meant Jerry was in action, and sure enough, "The Clown" was giving Jerry like 15 or 25 pts with 3 red balls for 300 roses a game. Jerry was 89 years old, soon to be 90. He had The Clown stuck 3300 and was firing balls in with glee (and grinning:p ) from everywhere. I almost wet myself laughing. Jerry died 2 days later. There was a fantastic memorial service which was well attended. I could go on and on about Jerry, but suffice it to say that there will never be another like him. A LEGEND !!!!

With all due respect Keith, of course Cornbread played One Pocket well on any table, but I think his absolute highest level game was 1 Hole on the 5 X 10 Snooker table. He was possibly the best in the world at that. I saw him run out many times giving weight to some serious players. He used to give "Jew Paul" 10-7, 9-7 on that table and Red didn't like it, but if he won he could win very big. I steered clear because there was often more bet on the side than in the middle. I could never be sure what was going on...Tom
 
Not sure which game you are talking about but during the recent IPT 14.1 match between Ortmann and Schmidt, Sigel said Irving Crane was the best 14.1 player ever because of his longevity at the top of the game.
 
Blomdahl beat Efren playing 9-ball (and 3c).

And he is Swedish! :D

On a serious note, I am a tornament player first. Pool really has been 9-ball since 83-86. The best 9-ball tournament player?

6 WC and 5 USOpen.

Who is the best 14:1 player, well that tells you who is the best 14:1 player. Who is the best cash player, dito. I really like separating the games like several posters have done here.
 
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jay helfert said:
Are you sure all these guys ran over 400? Earl??? Dallas?? Allen?
When did Ray run his big number? And what about Thorsten?

The only ones I've heard verification on were Engert and Schmidt.
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Someone was keeping a list. You can see it by searching here for some of the names.

Thorsten's high run was set when he was 22, I think. Considering that he averaged 50 in the European championships and was running 100s like water in NJ, I believe it.
 
Terry Ardeno said:
Bob,
The last update I had on "Cool Cat" was 382. I didn't know he had surpassed that. Coming from you, I'll just update my stats without verifying another source. I believe & trust your numbers.
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Don't. I was just quoting the numbers posted on another thread on AZB. Maybe Ray would like to give us an update himself.

It would be nice if pool had an organization that kept records.
 
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