Is Schmidt's and charlie 626 Legit

Dan Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
I agree. But you know as well or better than most that almost all gambling is done cueball fouls only, and almost all tournaments on a local or regional level are played cue ball fouls only as well. I also recall even on national events that unless the match is officiated by a referee, they may be playing cue ball fouls only. There are generally accepted guidelines for resolution when a player moves a ball, that seem to work reasonably well when two people are gambling.

Also, by all accounts of those who viewed the "edited" footage, and by Bob who has viewed the "unedited" footage, no balls were touched, so this is a moot point.

If you throw away the all ball fouls (which I know is opinion to do so...), but for arguments sake if you do, about all this is left is seeing if there was some sort of double hit type foul.

The skill level of the BCA members that watched this is brought into question. If all they have to watch out for is a double hit, I'm pretty sure they can manage. Hell, my high run is a measly 37, and I think I could make a call if I had the footage on a double hit or similar type foul. And if there was a shot that I was not sure of, I would definitely be able to see that it was questionable, and then call onto a more experienced player/referee to watch the shot on the video.

I certainly understand the desire to make the call for oneself, and not trust the expertise of someone else. But that just doesn't look to be the case that it will happen here. Unless you go to one of the viewings. Even at 2x speed for some portions, if there is something close to a foul, you will spot it. At that point you can jump up and down and ask John to show a replay in slow motion of that shot in question. So far maybe 100 people went to his shows, a few on here, and no one said any shot was close to a foul.
U stated - "Even at 2x speed for some portions, if there is something close to a foul, you will spot it." ??????

This is not accurate - I heard my buddy's 2nd cousin who's third cousin knew Bob Jewett say he heard that j.s. ran 626 and it was caught on tape, although here, here, I dare say I am from the show me state - unedited footage equals verifiable evidence. U will spot nothing but phony hollywood corruption at the bca's/j.s theatrical production. Nor should their thea'trick'al theater commercial be associated with Mosconi's legitimate (well touted) 65+yr old record. If I ever decide to start recording some more 14.1 long runs - I will employ an overhead camera plus a side cam, that way I will never protrude any footage from the viewers line of sight. I have many runs where my hand touched a ball during the run, I stopped and started over, as that is not a clean run in my view. PLUS the footage will be unedited and open to the general public for sale - no corrupt ' come and see the show' stuff. If u think the people want to see footage sped up in double speed and or that is normal digital adjudication procedure that speaks volumes to me about yer character.
 
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justnum

Principal Investigator of Magic Trick Shots
Silver Member
"Even at 2x speed for some portions, if there is something close to a foul, you will spot it."

This is not accurate - I heard my buddy's 2nd cousin who's third cousin knew Bob Jewett say he knew that 626 was caught on tape, although here, here, I dare say I am from the show me state - unedited footage equals verifiable evidence. U will spot nothing but phony hollywood corruption at the bca's/j.s theatrical production.
good idea, i will make a phony 626 ball run,

the only way you believe JS is if there is unedited footage.
That is a challenge I will take by the end of the week.

I will provide unedited footage of a high run.
 

Dan Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
good idea, i will make a phony 626 ball run,

the only way you believe JS is if there is unedited footage.
That is a challenge I will take by the end of the week.

I will provide unedited footage of a high run.
Good for you, it is not as difficult as some are making it out to be (providing unedited footage of a Claim) once the center is discoverd and you start rolling - the tough part is avoiding the skid - that is what stopped my 351 - without any fouls. Has anyone in Amsterdam run a 350+ in 14.1 - maybe so? Creating a edited run is very easy to do, as one person who got caught here on az - now knows - see Straight Pool section of az for confirmation. He got caught providing the phony footage of a large run - (I forgot his non legit #) I'm sure he had an avatar instead of posting his real name - he was warned - just as j.s. is being warned NOW. Turns out he was unabashed from his larceny and kept his account here on az - he replaced a ball that was missed - but the graph here on az member - caught it - what a guy.

The bca and j.s are hiding from the graph technology - as they probly should, a player that throws chalk at another opponent cause he is losing (see j.s. TAR video against me) - is not the one to replace Mosconi's great accomplishment of 526. I will adopt his 626 as solid evidence - once I see unedited footage, unfortunately - that is not being provided to us (even after two years) :-0 Plus in the beginning of their drive by news announcement - the bca stated that the run was Open to the 'Semi public'. It was this 'divisive lango' that hoisted the Red Flag for me - two years later - no unedited footage available for public to purchase - speaks volumes to me and I no salute the j.s 626 Claim. If you think being apart of the 'semi public' is kina like bein' in with the cool crowd - it ain't.
 
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book collector

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
But we don't know about the 300 spectators but it is not only possible but perhaps even likely -- Mosconi was a big star of that era.

Also, keep in mind that back in those days there were a lot of pool rooms that were pretty good sized. Here's one that was in STL around the same time.

Lou Figueroa
But was the one in Ohio one of them?
I don't doubt 300 people can fit in a room, but even if it was in the middle of an air force hanger, 300 can't get close enough to see much.
That's all true, and the deeper you look the cloudier it gets. Mosconi said there were 300 spectators. Thats nonsense, 300 people don't fit around a pool table without bleachers / risers and even if they did they'd need binoculars to see.

But none of that matters if he's your boyhood hero and you never grew up.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
There are still people around that played there. I'm trying to get in touch with someone that spent a lot of time there. I'm pretty sure I was there about 1967 and I don't remember it being huge . But my memory is suspect nowadays. My buddy will know for sure , he was there every day for a few years
 
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gerryf

Well-known member
...he seemed much less enthused about my attendence, .... he sounded much less enthusisastic bout my particiapation ...I am more of a mono ee mono type player anyhue - ... not going to travel to washington dc ... I prefer to stay in the sticks ... ...I am not in the cool crowd

Ha! Ha! I don't think I would be enthused about you attending either!!

You do have enough excuses in place so you never have to compete again.

We all know why!! Ha! Ha! This is terrific stuff!!
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
I'm talking about the live spectators in the room with him - he'd have to stand in multiple positions at once to block all their views. Even accounting for people looking away randomly there must have been eyes on every shot.

I'm not saying there certainly was no foul, but the chances of that are slim - it takes some "personal interest" to object, particularly as loudly as we've seen here, on the basis of "anything's possible".

pj
chgo


List the live spectators and why they were in a closed business.

Hu
 

logical

apart of their 'semi public'
Silver Member
Roger that Lou, sum thin a bit squirrly' bout it - when he said he was tryin' to get bca involved with it but really wanted me to play - I sar' a giant Red Flag with his bca assoc -but I was still interested as he did sound enthusiastic bout my attendence. I never heard back from him after a couple months, so I called him - 2nd phonee' converseanation' I had with him - did not go well. he seemed much less enthused about my attendence, stating the event was costing him alot of $ and he seemed stressed out, it was kinda negative vibe I received from the 'whirld pro' - he regurgitated that he had shortened the list of players and it was costing him alot of $ and mentioned that Pool Players are always wanting something for free? I guess he was tryin to bitterly group me in with the rest of his vissionary mod's - I am old school - plus I would not trust anyone who wants to deal off the bottom of the deck - in reference to the two jokers over at bca. I am a Pocket Billiard player who happens to gamble, so in our 2nd phone converse it seemed I was talking to a different dude, his vibe was negative and he sounded much less enthusisastic bout my particiapation in the 5 1/2 wash uh ton' deal - plus I was going back over some threads here and saw where Bobbie offered to play me or j.s. heads up in 14.1. I received the line on bobbie chamberlain - he has zero chance of winning with me on a tight Diamond in 14.1 (300 point set) - so I did offer him 2-1 on the $. I say he is full of b.s. like j.s. - I am not too full of it - if I say I will play - that means - i will.

I mostly play full rack and bank pool and One Pocket now uh dais'. I am more of a mono ee mono type player anyhue - plus not going to travel to washington dc to fool around on gaffed up table. I prefer to stay in the sticks and play bank or one pocket on the diamond - against Who Ever comes to the Ozarks. Thanks for the advice though, I am not in the cool crowd - I prefer it that way. I have decided to use my (as Devo would say) 'freedom of choice'. Adios Lou Figueroa - Thank you for your service - to what's left of this Country (correct spelling of your name this time) ;-)

Nobody ever thought your presence here or in 14.1 in general was ever more than solely to hate on JS so I doubt anyone expected you to be a part of actually setting a record.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 

gerryf

Well-known member
The principle problem becomes depth of knowledge.

The longer the run the wider the variety of table layouts and shots that must be shot. And, as the run lengthens, the likelihood of difficult situations that take more knowledge, experience, and skill to overcome, occurs more often.

IOWs, play a few racks and you might not see anything too terrible. Keep going a few more racks and maybe the balls don't open up so well. A few more and maybe you misplay your position or pattern. More racks and perhap you need to manufacture a break ball. More racks and maybe you have to break the balls off a difficult 15th ball. And then there is maintaining focus -- let it wander just a bit and maybe you miss a ball or a positional play you'd normally make.

Wash, rinse and repeat.

Lou Figueroa

That's an interesting observation. I like that.

Beyond the usual missed shot, missed position, and just bad luck, there have been many times I wondered if the balls could be replaced in the 'post-break' position, how often the player would choose an alternative path through the rack.
 
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ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
I understand the hall was closed for business, but open to spectators, as described in numerous posts..


The original claim was four people were there watching. That included the racker, his wife, and john's wife. I don't remember if they originally claimed the hall owner as a witness or not. While pj thought I was asking an impossible question to answer, the answer for all but maybe one or two of the people there has already been given.

john, hitting balls
the racker, racking
the room owner, getting ready to open
the room owner's wife, getting ready to open
one employee, getting ready to open.
john's wife, there, why, and what she was doing while every shot was taken is unknown.

Very unlikely that there were eyes on john at an angle to see the shot every moment of the run. Compare that to Willie Mosconi's run. Number of people there, unknown. Number that signed a document claiming to have seen the entire run, 38. I'm dubious about that number. However, most of these people were there as spectators to see an exhibition by a multi-time world champion. This was basically a one time thing too. They couldn't ramble in pretty much anytime the room was open and see Willie like they could watch john five days a week, week after week. Willie didn't have dozens and dozens of failed attempts to discourage spectators from thinking they were going to see something really special either.

Bottom line, the circumstances of Willie's run were much different than john's and there were many more spectators. Very easy to believe there were ten or more sets of eyes on every shot of Willie's. Also very easy to believe that john could have committed an unnoticed foul and perhaps didn't even consider it as these attempts were very much like practice runs. Very common to keep on if we have a minor foul in practice but any such thing would invalidate a record run.

john might have set a record, I think it is ridiculous to call it an exhibition record without any real spectators.

Gerry, there was no claim from john's camp that any spectators were there to watch the attempt. Original claims and updated claims during the week had zero unbiased witnesses present.

Logical, your point isn't without logic! While I would call myself more of a skeptic as I don't think you will find a statement from me anywhere that john didn't run 626 balls without a miss or foul, I would be far more easy to convince this was a legitimate record if john had 38 independent witnesses to his attempt.

Did he or didn't he? Only his hairdresser, and maybe john, know for sure!

Hu
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Roger that Lou, sum thin a bit squirrly' bout it - when he said he was tryin' to get bca involved with it but really wanted me to play - I sar' a giant Red Flag with his bca assoc -but I was still interested as he did sound enthusiastic bout my attendence. I never heard back from him after a couple months, so I called him - 2nd phonee' converseanation' I had with him - did not go well. he seemed much less enthused about my attendence, stating the event was costing him alot of $ and he seemed stressed out, it was kinda negative vibe I received from the 'whirld pro' - he regurgitated that he had shortened the list of players and it was costing him alot of $ and mentioned that Pool Players are always wanting something for free? I guess he was tryin to bitterly group me in with the rest of his vissionary mod's - I am old school - plus I would not trust anyone who wants to deal off the bottom of the deck - in reference to the two jokers over at bca. I am a Pocket Billiard player who happens to gamble, so in our 2nd phone converse it seemed I was talking to a different dude, his vibe was negative and he sounded much less enthusisastic bout my particiapation in the 5 1/2 wash uh ton' deal - plus I was going back over some threads here and saw where Bobbie offered to play me or j.s. heads up in 14.1. I received the line on bobbie chamberlain - he has zero chance of winning with me on a tight Diamond in 14.1 (300 point set) - so I did offer him 2-1 on the $. I say he is full of b.s. like j.s. - I am not too full of it - if I say I will play - that means - i will.

I mostly play full rack and bank pool and One Pocket now uh dais'. I am more of a mono ee mono type player anyhue - plus not going to travel to washington dc to fool around on gaffed up table. I prefer to stay in the sticks and play bank or one pocket on the diamond - against Who Ever comes to the Ozarks. Thanks for the advice though, I am not in the cool crowd - I prefer it that way. I have decided to use my (as Devo would say) 'freedom of choice'. Adios Lou Figueroa - Thank you for your service - to what's left of this Country (correct spelling of your name this time) ;-)

OK, Danny, that’s all fine with me.

But I will tell you that I just spent an hour talking to Bobby and his version of your interactions is quite different. In any case, we spent most of the time talking about the logistics of his project and I feel it will be a great opportunity for those players that are invited and choose to participate.

Lou Figueroa
 

iusedtoberich

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Is there a separate thread on BC's tournament? I have not heard about it on here except in Danny's post a few posts back. Just curious to read about it, that is all. Thanks.
 

Dan Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
For anyone who might think that debating the claim that Mosconi's 526 has been surpassed = fun or entertainment for me - it does not. I would much rather be talking about different facets of how j.s. got through each rack and or analyzing the trouble spots that he was able to weave himself out of - with my own eyes and converse with other 14.1 enthusiast's, actually celebrating a great achievement - after seeing UNEDITED FOOTAGE. Unfortunatly after two years he has only had a few of these obscure theater showings? Y'all can bet that he has been compensated for this possible lie imposed on the general populace (that possibly involves the theft of a 65+yr old record) Shame, Shame Shmitty. Well if u get to read this John schmidt aka bullet head aka Andy Vollaria (his real given birth name) is it possible that a cue company dangled a golden nugget if u could surpass 526 - and when u were unable to accomplish this goal - it was time for yer little theater productions? Did they maybe say "well John if yer going to try this theater route - it's time to maybe sing yer song, play guitar, make it snappy?" So for proof we get these hollywood theater showings? I can't say for sure but I would guess the next theater show will be in nyc, probly govnuh Comover will be in charge of theater tickets. Maybe that is a bit over the top - but it makes perfect sense to me.
 
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lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Is there a separate thread on BC's tournament? I have not heard about it on here except in Danny's post a few posts back. Just curious to read about it, that is all. Thanks.

No, I don't believe there is.

Basically, it's still in the works. The logistics are being hammered out and then they will be tested out. There is also the question of potentially meeting the requirements of certain governing bodies. Maybe those can be worked out, maybe not. If not, I don't believe it's going to slow much down -- a live stream, with an archived video available to one and all, will be hard to argue with. Let's just say it's a work in progress.

I will say it appears some pro players, foreign and domestic, are very keen on participating and willing to pay their way for a chance at the record. For others, its more of a "what will you pay me upfront" kind of deal and those guys can plan on finding other opportunities to burnish their reputations and, perhaps, enter the record books.

Lou Figueroa
 
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