Is Scott Frost over-rated?

[JB Cases]

it could be argued that the books followed the popularity. I will admit however to developing an interest in One Pocket AFTER purchasing Winning One Pocket.

My opinion is that One Pocket really came into it's own primarily because of Greg Sullivan and the genius format that is the Derby City Classic. A tournament where any amateur can play with the pros and have a semi-legit chance to win a short set here and there for a low price that doubles as an all-access pass is what brought one pocket to the masses IMO. Couple that with the advent of PPV from the event AND endless streams means that one pocket could flourish through the 2000s.

I have even seen DCC one pocket being played on Filipino channels. And being in January every year the DCC kind of sets the tone reminding everyone that One Pocket is a serious game worthy of attention.

 

[JB Cases]

I would take Shane/Dennis/Dazz over Scott right now.

All three of them have an open invitation to play. Shane wants a ball. Dennis and Daz have not made any move to try and play.

 

[Old Nine Baller]

IMO there are two people that can be credited with 1pocket becoming more popular. First is Matt Rosedaul who kept the US Open One Pocket tournaments going strong through the 90's up at The Billiard Playground, in Kalamazoo, MI.

Second would be The Professor, Grady Mathews, with his events on the East Coast and down South. Yes, Eddie's books didn't hurt. And thereafter, certainly Greg Sullivan with the DCC kept the flame going and then later Mark Griffin with his revival of the Open event. But during the tough years I think it was Matt and Grady.

Lou Figueroa

it could be argued that the books followed the popularity. I will admit however to developing an interest in One Pocket AFTER purchasing Winning One Pocket.

My opinion is that One Pocket really came into it's own primarily because of Greg Sullivan and the genius format that is the Derby City Classic. A tournament where any amateur can play with the pros and have a semi-legit chance to win a short set here and there for a low price that doubles as an all-access pass is what brought one pocket to the masses IMO. Couple that with the advent of PPV from the event AND endless streams means that one pocket could flourish through the 2000s.

I have even seen DCC one pocket being played on Filipino channels. And being in January every year the DCC kind of sets the tone reminding everyone that One Pocket is a serious game worthy of attention.

You both make very good and very correct points. Maybe the books kind of bridged the gap between the "Legends" tourneys and the 1st DCC in 1999.

Either way, I failed to give credit to Greg and Mark.

ONB

 

[Old Nine Baller]

I would take Shane/Dennis/Dazz over Scott right now.

All three of them have an open invitation to play. Shane wants a ball. Dennis and Daz have not made any move to try and play.

None of them has what it takes to beat Frost. The best of the 3 wants a ball.

ONB

 

[BeiberLvr]

People need to remember one thing very clearly. Tournament pool and gambling are vastly different.

Some of the best players to ever touch a pool cue barely ever won tournaments yet no tournament winners ever wanted any part of them for money.

True, but history only remembers those with trophies on their mantle. Money won/earned is just money spent in the long run.

Guys Shane and Efren are a special kind of player. Those that can win at gambling, and finish high in big tournaments. In my opinion, those are the kinds of players that I consider to be the best.

 

[iusedtoberich]

I would take Shane/Dennis/Dazz over Scott right now.

Me too. I would add to that list right now in current form Alex, Efren, Neils. And with a month of steady practice Id add Shannon.

 

[JB Cases]

True, but history only remembers those with trophies on their mantle. Money won/earned is just money spent in the long run.

Guys Shane and Efren are a special kind of player. Those that can win at gambling, and finish high in big tournaments. In my opinion, those are the kinds of players that I consider to be the best.

I disagree, at least as far as pool goes. We remember Cornbread Red, Johnny Ervolino, Marshal Carpenter, Ronnie Allen, etc...not for their tournament wins but for their colorful gambling exploits.

Scott Frost already has a spot among the world's greatest one pocket players. The respect he enjoys from his peers is enough to secure that spot.

I understand your point and of course those who can do both, like Efren and Shane should be ranked higher and they are ranked higher.

But when if you polled the top one pocket players and asked them...I bet Scott's name is consistently in the top 3.

 

[JB Cases]

Me too. I would add to that list right now in current form Alex, Efren, Neils. And with a month of steady practice Id add Shannon.

Wow. why don't you stake them each in 20k sets against Scott then?

DCC is a few months away...you could have all the games lined up there.

 

[onepocketron]

I do not think he is over rated. I do think that he can be a little too aggressive in some instances, but that is his style. Keep the pressure on full tilt. One thing for sure, you let him see a little daylight, and there is a payoff, he's coming with it.

 

[JB Cases]

Just saw on 1p.org that Justin Hall challenged the world to play even and Scott answered the call. Apparently they have something lined up for some 5-10k action.

 

[Dagwoodz]

Just saw on 1p.org that Justin Hall challenged the world to play even and Scott answered the call. Apparently they have something lined up for some 5-10k action.

Should be a great match, but I think that Scott has a little too much for Hall. Depending on the format, still could go either way.

And yes, for those wondering, I'm comfortable sitting on my fence.

On topic, I still consider Scott top 3 in the world. I think Efren edges him, but the margin isn't as wide as a half ball. Over rated? Not at all. He'll get the cheddar many more times than not gambling. And in tournaments he'll get there more often than all, other than Efren, playing 1-hole.

 

[Pushout]

Aggressive and offensive in one pocket does not win games with high caliber players, patience will, of which Scott in my opinion lacks (especially when he is a bit tired) but he knows the game, he runs balls better or same as all you mentioned.

Again, what/who are the "high caliber players" that aggressive play doesn't win against and who has the patience you speak of??

 

[iusedtoberich]

Wow. why don't you stake them each in 20k sets against Scott then?

DCC is a few months away...you could have all the games lined up there.

Because:

1) I'm not a moron.
2) If I was a moron I don't have that kind of money to throw around.

 

[JB Cases]

Because:

1) I'm not a moron.
2) If I was a moron I don't have that kind of money to throw around.

So it's essentially something to say that you don't actually believe?

 

[iusedtoberich]

So it's essentially something to say that you don't actually believe?

No. If you look at my history regarding Frost not being the best one pocket player, I have bet against him almost every year at the DCC for the past 3 or 4 years, at Galveston, and even now at this Smoking Aces tournament that just concluded. I have put my money where my mouth is, and I've profited.

Side betting a few hundred amongst the railbirds here on AZ is different than backing someone you don't know from Adam for 20k. That, is moronic.

 

[Jaden]

I was watching the whole match and doing a play by play for most of it...

I watched the whole match between Scott and Efren and did a play by play on most of it.

IMO, Scott didn't win because he wanted it too much...

There were a couple of times that he went aggressive when he should have been more conservative and at least once that he played safe when he should have been aggressive. The two main times I was thinking of this he had at least 6 balls and was at least 4 balls ahead of Efren and it made the difference for those two games.

He was tentative IMO because he wanted the win so badly, and then he got aggressive because he was getting frustrated at things not going his way. It worked out for him several times but in those key games, it worked against him.

He also got a couple of bad rolls.

Now as to him being over rated....HELL no is he over rated.

Every time there has been big money on the line Efren has pulled off the win.

If Efren was 80 and someone put on a tourney with a 200K first place, Efren would win it.

He's consistently shown that he can pull off insane wins against incredible competition, when the money is right...

That doesn't take away from Scott's place as one of the all time one pocket greats, it just show cases how Efren is one of, if not THE, best pool player to ever lift a cue.

If all of a sudden Pepsi, or Coca Cola or Ford went to BB and put up another 500K to add to the us open, Efren would probably win it, because that is who Efren is, the Magician...

Again, that doesn't take away from Scott's greatness at one pocket and that match even with the mistakes that Scott and Efren made, was some of the best one pocket with some awesome shot selections and executions of shots around.

I mean, it was obvious when watching that match versus the other matches, that THAT was one pocket played by the two most knowledgable, capable players in that tourney and for that matter, on the planet. Not to take away from Josh and Joey(whom I consider a friend and have argued with Tracy about being a better one hole player than Chip), but they were just really good executers with general knowledge compared to two finesse players with incredible knowledge and ability.

Well, that's my two cents on the matter.

Jaden

 

[Fast Lenny]

People talk about tournaments, he has won every major one pocket tournament so I am not understanding. His finishes the past 5 years or so I believe have been all top 8 at Derby with a 1st and 2nd place in there at DCC. He had a shot against Schmidt to win but turned it into a shooting contest and he went into the final 8 with a buy back but the night before was having a bit too much fun which we talked about and he certainly regrets.

Scott understands these next 5-10 years will be the time he is still able to really win some titles so hopefully he takes good care of himself and is hungry enough to do so. There will always be haters and doubters but in the next 2-3 years he will be inducted into the one pocket hall of fame I am certain. He has already done it all in one pocket. Not even sure what kind of question this is, definitely the #1 one pocket money player who will be talked about 30 years from now much like Ronnie Allen still is but we actually have video proof of his abilities.

 

[cleary]

Didn't the guy just have wrist surgery? Give him a break. If you wanna be the best you gotta beat the best. I saw him him bear efren a few years ago in VA for the cash and I think Alex is the only one to beat him since. I've always thought Alex was the best, when he takes it serious, and Scott/efren right behind. I'll be honest though, Josh roberts is on a fast track to catch up to all of em.

 

[Fast Lenny]

Didn't the guy just have wrist surgery? Give him a break. If you wanna be the best you gotta beat the best. I saw him him bear efren a few years ago in VA for the cash and I think Alex is the only one to beat him since. I've always thought Alex was the best, when he takes it serious, and Scott/efren right behind. I'll be honest though, Josh roberts is on a fast track to catch up to all of em.

Very impressed with Roberts game, I think as he matures and has a bit more patience he will be even tougher.

 

[JB Cases]

No. If you look at my history regarding Frost not being the best one pocket player, I have bet against him almost every year at the DCC for the past 3 or 4 years, at Galveston, and even now at this Smoking Aces tournament that just concluded. I have put my money where my mouth is, and I've profited.

Side betting a few hundred amongst the railbirds here on AZ is different than backing someone you don't know from Adam for 20k. That, is moronic.

You're joking right?

Throw six top one pocket players together and you bet AGAINST one of them and consider yourself smart?

The odds are in your favor that you will win by following a solid consistent pattern of betting AGAINST Scott Frost in tournaments. The same applies to just about any player in any series of tournaments with equally skilled competitors for the most part.

If you really want to gamble then bet AGAINST Scott in the match with Richie.

In the last 100 pro events there have probably been 85 different winners. So it's not proof that you're smart to pick one player and consistently bet against them to win. Even if they manage to win a couple you're still going to be up overall betting the field against them.

Also, this is as good a time as any, how about you and me match up at DCC? I would like to play you some cheap one pocket, say a hundred a game with an 11 game minimum so that someone will come out ahead. You up for that?