Is the APA that bad?

smokeandapancak

smokeandapancak

what?
Silver Member
As alot of you know I am living in Germany now and very soon I will be moving back to the States. I was looking forward to joining and playing in a league, but some of the threads here have began to make me think otherwise.
It seems like most people either say its full of sandbagging/cheating or that its just more of a night out at the bar and there just happen to be pool tables around.
Over here my playing time consist of mostly table time alone practicing (60%)a few nights with a group of friends, light gambles (30%) and the rest being local tourneys here and there when they come up. there is hardly ever the chance to match up with strangers as they seem to be a bit leery of the "Big Tattoed American" with a beer in hand.
This leaves my with a problem.... I have a decent game but not good enough to run around matching up with just anybody. I would like to play something like APA but I dont want to be bogged down with b.s.. If I shoot pool for 4 hours I want to be shooting pool.. not hanging out drinking beer!
BTW .... how do the handicaps work...is there some sort of standard/gage that I will be put up against if/ when I start... or am I just labled with something and they figure it out after a few games?
I have a good 6/7ball run most everytime up.. and have been known to put a rack down on ocassion..... high run 32.. average 20 or so on straights... where might I rank

Thanks
 
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I play and enjoy APA league play, and would encourage anybody considering it to give it a try and play for a session.

Your skills sound like they would be an asset to just about any league team, and it's not hard to find a team who is looking to add a player. In many situations, you have multiple pool tables, so you can shoot with teammates or other players during a league night match.

The experiences people have and share can be varied from region to region, state to state, league to league and pool hall to pool hall. Some people will find anything to complain about, but in reality a good portion are just not skilled at being good team players. Lots of very good, well meaning pool shooters just are not good teammates, even if they really try to be.

Anyways, you have very little to lose if you commit to a team for a session, usually about 14 weeks. Almost a million league shooters in the US, not everybody is complaining.
 
No one died playing APA

No the APA is not that bad. If you have one in your area when you move try it out for yourself. If you have a better option, great! Go fo it! But Generally, the APA is a pretty low risk, high reward way of getting a chance to meet and mix with some new people.

As far as a lot of the complaining, should anti-social attitudes coming from a bunch of pool playing computer geeks suprise you? :D
 
If you play in the APA you will start with a 4 handicap. Lose your first match and you will go down to a 3. Most APA 8 ball players are SL4 (about 65+%) so SL4 is considered an average player. Your SL (handicap) determines how many games you must win to win a match. For example: You are an SL4 your opponent is an SL5. This would be a 3-4 race (you get one on the wire) the bigger the differential between your handicap and your opponents the more lopsided the race. This is APA 8 ball I'm talking about.
In 9 ball the handicapping is different and so is the scoring. The scoring is more like straight pool, in that each pocketed ball counts for 1 point, and the 9 ball counts as 2 points. The race is handicapped, and it is a points race, say your 50 to your opponents 35. 9ball encourages running the rack as opposed to slopping the 9 in because of the points factor. It really is a short rack slop version of straight pool, played on a barbox. Someone who plays 9ball league can probably do a better job of explaining it.
The best thing about league is being able to play a wide variety of players, and the opportunity to get into individual tourneys with a chance to go to Vegas.
I'm in my 4th session of play (3 sessions in a year), and I now play on 1 8ball team and captain another. It's a lot of fun, and I haven't had any problems with poor sportsmanship, or obvious sandbagging or cheating

McCue Banger McCue
 
Met lots of great people in the APA, the competition is fun, and with the handicap system, people can bring their spouses/friends who might not be that good, but they want to learn.....it's not for everyone, but I've enjoyed it....
 
The thing about APA is its largely dependent on the local league operator and the local players. You can have a great LO and great players and have a great time - or you can substitute "lousy" for "great". There's really no telling 'til you get home and go try it for yourself.

That said, you said you have six-seven ball runs usually. IMHO you should skip APA altogether and go for BCA or VNEA. Those two leagues tend to have higher-skilled players, on average.
 
I enjoy the APA league, I haven't seen the downsides that people like to complain about.

But you mentioned that you didn't want to hang around drinking beer when you go out. There is a lot of waiting, there are 5 matches a night, you will be either playing one match or since your team will likely have more than 5, you may not play every week.

Still, I'd recommend trying it out.
 
I also enjoy the APA legue. I go to play and learn more to improve my game. It helps playing other players of greater and lesser skill levels. It beats playing alone and there is always someone else on the team willing to help you learn more of the game. Ive made a lot of good friends playing.

The negative stuff starts comming from the teams and players that play strictly for the competition and the chance to go to las vegas. At least this is my opinion. You hardly hear anything from the teams and players that play for fun and just enjoy the game and social time.

Get on a good team that is not just focused on the prize and winning all the time and you will have a good time. Focus TOO much on just the wins and trips then you may start seeing the negative side of it such as sandbagging and all that other stuff.
 
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If you haven't played in a league you should try it as some guys really like it. I hated it. Mostly waiting around, lots of sandbagging, constant complaining about somebodys handicap being too high/low, arguments about anything and everything, sharking and just plain cheating. Plus, as a recovering alcoholic I got pretty tired of being around drinking and the loud music and drunks. Nothing about league resembled pool... imo.

But... all that said.. you should try it as a lot of my friends love it and have been doing it 3 nights a wek for 20 years.
 
APA may not be for you

smokeandapancak said:
I would like to play something like APA but I dont want to be bogged down with b.s.. If I shoot pool for 4 hours I want to be shooting pool.. not hanging out drinking beer!
Thanks
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Anytime you play a tourney you can spend a good bit of time cooling your heels but the league thing around here seems to take it to extremes. The other issue for you is that their main reason for being out seems to be to socialize and drink beer and the pool is just the excuse for the get together. My advice is to attend a few league nights before joining and making a commitment. I was going to join a league to meet a few people while getting my game back in shape. Fortunately my pool hall already had a few league teams. After watching a few league nights, now when they set up close to my table I just pack up my stuff and leave.

I suspect that the APA scene varies other places but for what you want I would just find a few good halls and hit the better bar and local pool hall tournaments. You will soon know many people and can play however you choose.

Hu
 
I highly reccomend it, now as an accomplished player as far as league is concerned. The only real negative that I really have is that on occasion you'll run into a player that when they don't have a shot they will just whack the balls and hope that something goes in. When nothing happens it wrecks the table layout, and when they get lucky it keeps them at the table. But, other than that I can honestly say that I Totally love league play especially the APA.

Black Cat :cool:
 
Like always it depends where you end up

Hello:

I'm a German living in the burbs of Chicago and I play in the APA. I believe the APA is a good way to meet people that are interested in playing pool. After getting these contacts everything else becomes easier. Btw, they will love you. Just loose the first game become a 3 and slowly win the next 10 or so games until you are a 5 or 6. (You should easily be of this level with a high run of 32 in straight pool).
However, it is not really comparable to playing in a billiard club in Germany. Over here there is no leveled league structure from "county" league to Bundesliga which tries to bring players of similar playing ability together. Here everything is more locally and handicap systems try to make the games of players of different skill levels interesting. The APA is more of a social event in my opinion. You play your one match & cheer for your team mates (and maybe have a beer or two). But if your are really looking for more serious or stronger competition you should try the BCA or similar leagues or maybe just play the smaller local tournaments. Here near Chicago I could play every night of the week in one of these smaller tournaments (if work would permit it). Some of them are also handicapped and there are really some decent players out there.
But, what I really miss is the mixed game system that they played in Germany (2 games 9ball, 2 8ball and 1 straight pool).

curiousofpool
 
Look !....

The APA is like certain CUES ! :p YOU EITHER LOVE IT OR HATE IT ! AND IN SOME CASES KNOW VERY LITTLE ABOUT IT THAN WHAT SOMEONE ELSE HAS SAID!:eek: The facts are this...
1) I have played APA almost since its conception and it is gaining members at ever increasing rates each and every year! :)
2) it in my opinion and experience all depends on the organizer / franchisher that runs your league on how satisfied or dissatisfied you will be!
3) I play in a in house league now for the last 8 years or so and this eliminates the one issue that I had and that was traveling around to different Bars and rooms with varying levels of clientèle and table conditions.:cool:

IMO! for overall fun and meeting like minded people (pool lovers) it can't be beat! :D
 
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ScottW said:
The thing about APA is its largely dependent on the local league operator and the local players. You can have a great LO and great players and have a great time - or you can substitute "lousy" for "great". There's really no telling 'til you get home and go try it for yourself.
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I believe this (LO's) could be the answer to a LOT of APA league problems!

vicdotcom said:
The negative stuff starts comming from the teams and players that play strictly for the competition and the chance to go to las vegas. At least this is my opinion. You hardly hear anything from the teams and players that play for fun and just enjoy the game and social time.
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While this may be true in a lot of cases, I myself have made negative comments about APA league on this forum. My wife and I play ONLY for the opportunity to have an evening out with friends and to engage in a little friendly game of pool. Neither one of us are highly competitive people and neither one of us has any desire to go to Vegas (or even Regionals for that matter). We have to constantly turn down invitations to play on the singles boards. Don't care nuthin' about it. What sticks in my craw is the fact that although winning and/or losing is not that big of a deal to us, we do enjoy winning a FAIR match every now and then. It would get downright boring to lose every week. But when my wife, a SL3, 53 years old, grandmother of four, wears glasses, has bad knees, and has only been playing for less than a year gets put up against some young man who is also rated a SL3, and he OBVIOUSLY IS NOT a SL3 (saw him run 2 racks out on a practice table playing one of his teammates after his match with my wife. SL3's don't do that, not even on a good night!!!) it wears on my enjoyment of the league. If you would have seen his game, you would have wholeheartedly agreed with me. The problem seems to rampant in the South Arlington (TX) league. I just don't get why someone would join a league that is basically set up for amatuer pool players and would feel the need to cheat just for that shot in the playoffs or even a trip to Vegas. How good this young man mentioned above must have felt that night whoopin'-up on my little 'ol lady :rolleyes: .
On the other hand, my teammates and I have NEVER tanked a shot to get another inning in the books and I know of several other teams that are like that. There ARE a lot of really nice, honest people in the league who will give you an enjoyable night of competition. I still like the APA overall, but I do get peeved sometimes at some of the more obvious cheaters. And part of the problem in my league may have been touched on in the first quote of this post ;) .

curiousofpool said:
Just loose the first game become a 3 and slowly win the next 10 or so games until you are a 5 or 6. (You should easily be of this level with a high run of 32 in straight pool).
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You just told this guy to SANDBAG :( :( :( !!! That's exactly the kinda crap I've been rantin' about on here. Jeeesh!!!

Maniac
 
Come play some APA 9-ball with us on Sunday's when you get back into town....I've loved playing it! btw:lots of action on the back 5 tables from guys here for the Viking....
 
Yeah, what he said. The people make or break the league. That's just how it is.

ScottW said:
The thing about APA is its largely dependent on the local league operator and the local players. You can have a great LO and great players and have a great time - or you can substitute "lousy" for "great". There's really no telling 'til you get home and go try it for yourself..
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I have played in APA on two occassions, in two different locations, and found it all the same. Sandbagging is the name of the game if your team wants to win. The handicapping system the APA uses makes it easy and inviting for the unscrupulous players and teams. Maniac's words are more the standard that I've seen. Now I play only in ACS and BCA leagues. The handicap system there makes it impossible for someone to win and get their handicap down. Besides folks......I HATE SLOP......and thats what the APA is all about! I also hate having to take the ball I make on the break as my set. I've only been playing pool for about four years now but it seems to me that those rules are more "bar rules" that were adapted by the APA to attract the bar crowd.
 
badbanks said:
I have played in APA on two occassions, in two different locations, and found it all the same. Sandbagging is the name of the game if your team wants to win. The handicapping system the APA uses makes it easy and inviting for the unscrupulous players and teams. Maniac's words are more the standard that I've seen. Now I play only in ACS and BCA leagues. The handicap system there makes it impossible for someone to win and get their handicap down. Besides folks......I HATE SLOP......and thats what the APA is all about! I also hate having to take the ball I make on the break as my set. I've only been playing pool for about four years now but it seems to me that those rules are more "bar rules" that were adapted by the APA to attract the bar crowd.
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All true...from the players' viewpoint.

The best thing about the APA is the business side of it and how those dynamics attract new players into the game. I found this the other day doing some business research:

http://aol.entrepreneur.com/aol/franchises/americanpoolplayersassociation/282088-0.html

APA is ranked 143rd best franchise out of the 500 listed. Not bad!

fwiw,

Jeff Livingston
 
chefjeff said:
All true...from the players' viewpoint.

The best thing about the APA is the business side of it and how those dynamics attract new players into the game. I found this the other day doing some business research:

http://aol.entrepreneur.com/aol/franchises/americanpoolplayersassociation/282088-0.html

APA is ranked 143rd best franchise out of the 500 listed. Not bad!

fwiw,

Jeff Livingston
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Pretty amazing. People on the AZ who want to ensure a future in billiards should turn the focus from what the pro players are not and what the APA is, even if you don't like the rules or the game.

Fact is, the APA is a profit making organization, and they cater to their primary clients; APA SL3 and SL4s who make up the overwhelming majority of the league. They cater to the general public, and don't want a group or team of high level shooters to be able to dominate a local bar league.

The numbers and revenue they generate should be enough to get the general publics attention.

And people are on here crying that there is no money in pool. They are just going about it the wrong way.
 
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